Let me preface this by saying that overall, I am in favor of #nochanges for Classic WoW. Given the track record of the current retail WoW development team, I don't trust Blizzard to make changes to Classic WoW that improve the quality of the game. But I also think it's fun to imagine what kind of small tweaks could be made to the classes in order to enrich the game if the original developers of WoW were given back the reins. Let me start off with two small examples:

A buff to moonkins: Moonglow reduces the mana cost of Healing Touch, Regrowth, and Rejuvenation by 3% per talent point (as it does currently), and reduces the mana cost of Moonfire, Starfire, and Wrath by 5% per talent point (increased from 3%).

A buff to ret paladins: Two-handed Weapon Specialization increases the damage you deal with two-handed melee weapons by 4% per talent point (increased from 2%).

These changes would not suddenly make Boomkins and Rets mandatory specs to bring to raids, but they would at least take specs that are currently only played for their entertainment value and nudge them in the direction of being slightly more viable. Remember that the class should be balanced in PvE and PvP, and buffing a class for PvE can sometimes make them overpowered in PvP and vice versa.

What sorts of small balance tweaks would you like to see if the original WoW devs were the ones in charge?

Removing the debuff limit. They devs already indicated that it was only in place due to technical limitations at the time, and it would increase feral druid and warlock viability. Doesn't even need a class balance tweak to work.

Source for dev claim: https://www.wowhead.com/news=288407/bli ... ssic-panel

Quote: I.e. Debuff Limit - in 2004 you could have 8 debuffs on a mob and that was it. In 2005 it was 16, BC it was 40, now it's effectively uncapped. This originally was a technical limitation, not a design values problem. We will be restoring it to 16 debuff limit. It is objectively worse design but we don't want to mess with the 1.12 data so we're going with 16.

Yes please. Vanilla was not lightning in a bottle. They stuck to core game design philosophies that made the game great. Paladins not having taunt, does not add to the depth and value of the game. Dont add airdrops and shit like some people would want (@redridgegnoll) to completely rewrite the experience and doom the game, but why wouldn't you want the odd tweak. Focusing primarily on items that were already supposed to be in vanilla (like paladin taunt) but simply never made it off the design floor for one reason or another. In paladins case, they simply didnt know how they wanted to write the taunt. The game devs said they knew they wanted it to be a taunt that was cast on a party member to pull his threat, but they didnt know how to write the code or make it work. Which is exactly how pally taunt worked when it was eventually introduced.

It pains me that certain specs are completely invalidated simply because they have no gear itemized for them. This is dumb.

Allowing Tier sets to have spec specific bonuses like they did in BC would be cool too. I think gear itemization itself would be handled a bit differently, even by the original devs. As iconic as those original tier sets were, they aren't desirable for folks who want to be competitive. I know these aren't actually class balance tweaks, but in the same spirit!

I love classic warrior (and don't have the time to commit to being main tank), but am thinking I may change to rogue since their tier sets are actually viable for dps, even if they're not optimal. Would also be interesting to have pally sets that increased the viability of tanking/dps.

I think eventually they will do some changes to keep the game fresh. But I don't think they will do too much changes in the first year tbh, just the regular bugs and gameplay break problems that will show up.

Morph wrote: ↑

5 years ago

A buff to moonkins: Moonglow reduces the mana cost of Healing Touch, Regrowth, and Rejuvenation by 3% per talent point (as it does currently), and reduces the mana cost of Moonfire, Starfire, and Wrath by 5% per talent point (increased from 3%).

Not sure the extra % would make them viable in raid though. But if that was enough for Balance druids not to go OOM after half a fight that would be cool. Same kind of talent/buff would be nice for Elemental Shamans too.

However I'm still #nochanges. I actually don't really mind Balance Druids and Elemental Shamans being inferior in PvE in terms of mana since they both are both rock solid in PvP. That's a personal unpopular opinion though that I like some classes to be better at one thing then the other, instead of a real "balance".

Removing the debuff limit will fuck up most - if not every single bossfight.

kraeuterorc wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Removing the debuff limit will fuck up most - if not every single bossfight.

Yeah the bosses would go down too fast. I wonder if it would be more viable to have DoT casters instead of melees on boss fights.
Moonfires, Insect Swarms, Corruption, Agony, Immolate, Curse of doom, Shadow word pain, Devouring Plague, Vamp touch, x30

kraeuterorc wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Removing the debuff limit will fuck up most - if not every single bossfight.

Not if the bosses were tuned to be relevant. The entire game could use a 10-30% difficulty boost. This isnt to say im pro removing the debuff limit, but the game could use a difficulty increase. It only servers to promote longevity to the project.

I wouldn't mind a bump in difficulty, especially Onyxia/MC/BWL maby ZG/AQ20 aswell.

Erik wrote: ↑

5 years ago

kraeuterorc wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Removing the debuff limit will fuck up most - if not every single bossfight.

Yeah the bosses would go down too fast. I wonder if it would be more viable to have DoT casters instead of melees on boss fights.
Moonfires, Insect Swarms, Corruption, Agony, Immolate, Curse of doom, Shadow word pain, Devouring Plague, Vamp touch, x30

Oh I'm sure Blizz initially tuned content around the defuff limit being in place, and therefore fights might need buffed it it was removed. The OP asked what tweaks we'd like to see to make some other classes more viable and that might be in line with the original devs' approach. I think this would be a step in that direction. I'm not sure boomkin, spriest, or warlock stacking would still be as viable as mage stacking for the rolling ignite, but it would certainly increase the viability of those specs if they were permitted to use their original toolkit.

The only "buffs" I really want to see in the game come in the form of more class quests aligned with vanilla values.

I remember when I dinged level 10 and I had to run a quest for my bear form. That was pretty cool. Later on in the game, I saw other level 20 druids running around as a cat! This got me super hyped for a cat form quest at level 20. I was anticipating it so much in my head about what I would have to do in order to get my cat form.

Then I dinged level 20 and I paid some silver and I got cat form. Not super epic.

Justbe wrote: ↑

5 years ago

The only "buffs" I really want to see in the game come in the form of more class quests aligned with vanilla values.

I remember when I dinged level 10 and I had to run a quest for my bear form. That was pretty cool. Later on in the game, I saw other level 20 druids running around as a cat! This got me super hyped for a cat form quest at level 20. I was anticipating it so much in my head about what I would have to do in order to get my cat form.

Then I dinged level 20 and I paid some silver and I got cat form. Not super epic.

100% agree on this, as a hunter I was so disappointed not to get any quest after the pet one and until Sunken Temple.

This actually seems like a good idea. Would be fun if they add something like that.

Justbe wrote: ↑

5 years ago

The only "buffs" I really want to see in the game come in the form of more class quests aligned with vanilla values.

yugen wrote: ↑

5 years ago

I think eventually they will do some changes to keep the game fresh. But I don't think they will do too much changes in the first year tbh, just the regular bugs and gameplay break problems that will show up.

They did publicly state that they were open to this. However, their goal right now is to deliver Classic as close as possible to what Vanilla was, with all its triumphs and flaws. Once all of the phases have been delivered, I think these conversations are going to be re-ignited and it's certainly possible that the community will convince Blizzard to keep going.

Personally, I hope it goes in the way of Classic+ (1.14 and beyond) rather than TBC.

Slippery slope

That would be interesting to see.

rijndael wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Personally, I hope it goes in the way of Classic+ (1.14 and beyond) rather than TBC.

I have also often thought of this, and have had a few things I think would make some good changes towards balance. first, if any of these ideas get implimented, just make sure you do so like 6 months+ after Naxx release.

I really really do not advocate for druid or any hybrid spec to be on par with pure dps as pure dps classes. all things the same, I would still expect the mage to out DPS the balance druid for example. Their utility and versatility is still their core, and I think there should be tradeoffs for that(That trade off being lower raw dps).

I think any 'balancing' that comes into play shouldnt level out classes DPS or HPS or TPS, but rather double down each class into their own class identity. Focus on play style. My issue with moonkin isn't the lower damage output. its the chance that I could literally be sitting there auto attacking a mob for a decent chunk of the fight because you went oom. Just double down on the spec playstyle, and ensure the player can play that spec throughout the entire encounter.

All things the same, Hybrid DPS should be roughly ~15% lower output than a pure class. I also think you should not make it easy to obtain.

ret dps is boring as hell. any balancing that came into play, I would like to see play off of the seal + judgement style they got going on. Make them mele crit bombs, after landing a crit, all judgements and seals are free mana for 5 seconds. somthing like that. make it more engaging than auto attack white damage. but, remeber that pally is a hybrid class. I dont think that they should out dps a rogue.

Feral for instance, is really engaging as it is. Its super crap dps if you dont min max the powershifting rotation and use crazy odd peices from all over the place. I wouldnt get rid of this playstyle or commitment. in fact I would actually double down on this. Add another on use weapon from like ZF or BRD that increases crit or something. I'm even OK with having to farm it. (maybe instead of 3x on uses, like 5x or 10x?) If you remove debuff limit to allow bleeds, you would really need to be carefull with the feral gearing so that feral doesnt become on par with rogues DPS.

Debuff limit gone.

I think feral tank is pretty damb good actually. The adjusted changes between PS and classic will determine if I have any modification id like to see. but outside of a feral gear set at pre-raid, T1-T3, I dont hae a lot I would change for feral tank.

Additional/alternative gear sets to be ~ on par with current gear sets for all specs honestly. In terms of druid at least, I think that proper gear items, specifically tier gear, would really go a long way to fixing almost all issues with druid at least.

I would like to see T1 for balance have "set 3: reduce the mana cost of your damage spells by 15%". That bonus, plus intell and spirit stack on the peices would really allow balance, along with innervate on self, to not have any mana issues for at least T1 content. woudlnt really affect overall DPS, but it would affect damage done over the entire fight. With balance druid, the balancing I would focus on is gearing to ensure they arent sitting there oom for half the fight.

I REALLY liked the eclipse talent in WOTLK that balnace druid had. I would like to see something similar worked into vanilla. Maybe not a talent, maybe a bonus to moonkin form? Maybe a set peice? Maybe a class quest for every class that grants a unique trinket that this effect could be tied to.Make players make the hard choice and pick a single trinket from 3, for whichever playstyle they like the most. you only get to chose once per class.

I would like to see balance druid gear sets really double down on the crit focused aspect. maybe a set bonus that restores X mana or % mana on damage spell crit?

restro is pretty good. Just rework the existing sets to be restro only focused. I would like to see a set bonus on restro gear for chance to pop a hot on a raid member withing 30 yards of the recipient of a critical healing touch. I want to see restro double down on those HoTs for a play style, but other than that, not really much I would change.

Instead of releasing a T4 raid, I would like to see a 'tuning' patch where all the raid bosses get harder, they remove debuff limit, and release additional gearing. I also would like to see this done in order of tiers. So, pre-raid and T1 gear released first, follow it up by T2 and 2.5 gear and additional <55 dungeon gear, finally T3.

for pally, i think they are pretty damb awesome at heals. I would give pally spec specifc gear, like druids, and all other classes.

class quest for paladins to give them a taunt I do like the original goal of a taunt you cast on friendly that pulls mobs that are targeting them to you. this I think is a cool aspect.

I would really like to see some arcone mages in raiding.
Set bonus that grants a bonus missle to the channel every time one of your arcane missles crits?
Set bonus to caus arcane splosion to debuff mobs against arcane damage for X seconds?

I think shadow priest is pretty decent play style, give them shadow priest specific gear.

I could go on for days of small tweaks I would make. But most importantly, dont change a damb thing until 6+ months after naxx, and please impliment some voting system like OSRS where like 80% of the player pop has to approve the change.