Hi, just found this forum

I'm going to play with a friend in Classic, the trouble is, she only wants to play Paladin heal and only PvP, on PvP server of course, because she hates raiding, seems non-negotiable... that does not stop me from raiding alone of course, but my main objectif is PvP.

When I'm looking for tips, it's always the same thing, "heal + warrior = destroy, warrior is gear dependent but give any slow weapon, a pocket heal and its done".
I have a lot of exp and do a lot of 2s/3s on BC/WotlK and their iconic compositions, then stopping WoW at Cataclysm, but in classic, it's just world PvP and BG, my only experience in Vanilla was a PvP Enhancement Chaman, before the windfury was nerf (proc on proc).
I was young so my memories are not all intact, but priests mind control on arathi seems to have left something...

It's not a problem for me to play warrior, I play him at BC and love it, but I love to know all the possible "paths".
But if he had to have something else, just as well ?
Do not hesitate to say any duo, I could try to convince her but she love Paladin to much, not believe it... just for give ideas to others peoples who pass here and who want to know powerful other duo than Heal + Warrior.

Thanks

Warmok wrote: ↑

5 years ago

I'm going to play with a friend in Classic, the trouble is, she only wants to play Paladin heal and only PvP, on PvP server of course, because she hates raiding, seems non-negotiable... that does not stop me from raiding, of course.

Have you proposed to her yet?

Warmok wrote: ↑

5 years ago

When I'm looking for tips, it's always the same thing, "heal + warrior = destroy, warrior is gear dependent but give any slow weapon, a pocket heal and its done"
I have a lot of exp and do a lot of 2s/3s on BC/WotlK and their iconic compositions, then stopping WoW at Cataclysm
But in classic, it's just world PvP and BG, my only experience in Vanilla was a PvP Enhancement Chaman, before the windfury was nerf (proc on proc), I was young so my memories are not all intact, but priests mind control on arathi seems to have left something...

Vanilla is not balanced around solo or small group content. PvP balance is found in largescale group content like 10-15 man BG's. A warrior/healer combo will see the most mutual value, which is why you see this recommendation often. Which two roles will get the MOST out of eachother? A warrior/healer is probably the simplest answer. That being said, you can always combo ANYTHING with a healer. She will be a welcomed force in EVERY BG she enters as one of the few healers who intend to PvP. I would say the next best class that would get the MOST value out of playing with a healer would probably be a warlock. You could make great use of her heals with a warlock as it provides you with an infinite resource chain and you can provide her with valuable CC and peeling.

Warmok wrote: ↑

5 years ago

It's not a problem for me to play warrior, I play him at BC and love it, but I love to know all the possible "paths".
But if he had to have something else, just as well ?
Do not hesitate to say any duo, I could try to convince her but she love Paladin to much, not believe it... just for give ideas to others peoples who pass here and who want to know powerful other duo than Heal + Warrior

I mean you can quite literally play as anything and duo. I dont think its wise to start making suggestions to her if she is pretty certain on what she wants to play. What do you want to do? Are you queing as a 2man in pug BG's? Are you going to be on an organized team? Will you spend most of your time in world PvP? Is she actively pushing rank? There are SO many factors that go into this... If you are just asking for classes that have the best synergy with healers, I would recommend warrior or warlock as the most obvious answers but there are other considerations depending on your goals.

Also, welcome to the forum!

I'm surprised you didn't try to sell him on Paladin + Hunter for pvp @Stfuppercut. I guess not even pocket heals can save you from leeway though.

Lendryn wrote: ↑

5 years ago

I'm surprised you didn't try to sell him on Paladin + Hunter for pvp Stfuppercut. I guess not even pocket heals can save you from leeway though.

Bahahahaha, right? Hunters do make good peelers for heals but they don't quite get as much value out of the healer. As a hunt I'd prefer someone to be able to peel off of me. I've had some pretty good success playing hunter/rogue. Really easy to pair up their burst and outvalue other people.

That being said, I may not be a hunter for long </3. =(

Maybe I'm thinking of someone else then but I read an argument that hunter + paladin was even better than warrior because they covered each other's weaknesses better, like Blessing of Freedom + Cleanse allowing the hunter to kite and also shut down mages with their high ranged phys damage.

Lendryn wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Maybe I'm thinking of someone else then but I read an argument that hunter + paladin was even better than warrior because they covered each other's weaknesses better, like Blessing of Freedom + Cleanse allowing the hunter to kite and also shut down mages with their high ranged phys damage.

Yea, I don't think that was me... There is definitely some synergy there. I've always preferred rogue/hunt as my ideal 2 man though. Rogue just acts as the perfect assist for a hunt in my experience. You can trap and have the rogue babysit a target for you while you setup your burst and then the rogue can finish with you. You can flare for your rogue during a rogue V rogue scenario. You can easily peel for the rogue or use concus to help the rogue gap close and he can peel off of you. Sap, blind, gouge, crip, concus, traps and traps and traps, wingclip, stuns and stuns and stuns. The 2 play really well together and can smother most enemies if played at a high level. There is no doubt that a blessing of freedom or timely bubble can go a long way on a hunt though too.

Fast response, thanks

To answer your questions, she's going to play Heal Paladin 100%, her goal is rank 10, only dungeon for her.
We queing as 2 at the start yeah, but we are open, organized at two mmmh no, World PvP is part of the experience because classic don't have BG at the begining but most of ur time in BG after the phase 3 I think for the rank, but it's far.
I don't know wich class for me, I can play Warrior, but the "gear dependent" can annoy me, I mean, I can raid but not in "hardcore" guild, I don't have the same time that I had before so that scares me a little, gear dependent is not precise enough to me for put the Warrior away because its hard to find more information "when you start to do something with your warrior", yeah you need gear, but who don't ? just need to find weapon ? like Arcanite Reaper, Untoppoble Force, Bonereaver's, Ashkandi or Naxx weapon ?
I also heard that it was not safe to Warlock in the alliance.

As for warriors being gear dependent, they are. That shouldn't concern you if you are raiding though.

Warmok wrote: ↑

5 years ago

I also heard that it was not safe to warlock in the alliance.

Warlock on alliance is fine, especially for someone like you who aims to play in PvE for the most part. The annoying part for many ally warlocks is that undeads have will of the forsaken and approximately 40-50% of your opponents will be undead. This is not a deal breaker for everyone, but for many players it isn't worth the extra trouble. For someone like yourself who is only casually PvPing with your friend, this likely wont be a big factor for you and securing a raid spot as a warlock will likely be easier than as a dps warrior.

Also, youve already got the name for it. Warmok the warlock.

edit:spelling

@Stfuppercut
No, I'm aim to play PvP for the most part, I only do Dungeon/Raiding to find gear, meet poeple and guild, like everyone I mean, but 75/80% of my time is for PvP, sorry if I am poorly express, my english is not the best that is.
Warmok the warlock

Warmok wrote: ↑

5 years ago

@Stfuppercut
No, I'm aim to play PvP for the most part, I only do Dungeon/Raiding to find gear, meet poeple and guild, like everyone I mean, but 75/80% of my time is for PvP, sorry if I am poorly express, my english is not the best that is.
Warmok the warlock

If you guys are planning on doing battlegrounds and pushing rank the majority of the time and are playing casually, your synergy with her specific class will be less important. I would choose to play something you enjoy in PvP, but that can still add some valuable peeling for her class. I'd be looking at warlock, warrior, hunter, mage to be honest. You could toss rogue in this category, but rogues in BG's often find themselves playing solo on either flag defense or going for a quick cap. Honestly, getting rank 10 is a huge time investment. Despite how often you two plan on playing together, you will likely have scheduling differences that will lead you both to playing a TON on your own. Choose something that you want to play first and foremost. Especially if neither of you plan on playing hardcore.

Warmok wrote: ↑

5 years ago

can raid but not in "hardcore" guild, I don't have the same time that I had before so that scares me a little

Dont be scared tbh.

The content is super easy, on many servers there will be pugs that make the raids together - don't worry about that. You will get to Gear fast enough without any problems - maybe not in the first 2-3 weeks, but afterwards :)

And Warrior is dependent on Equip that's true somewhere, but you can also equip a warrior relatively strong without Raid :)!

May I just add that if and when you find yourself playing alone, and specially in Battlegrounds, a solo warrior without heals goes down fast. Just something to keep in mind. It's like having a huge target on your back. That was my experience in vanilla BGs. When there was a healer I was on top of the world, when there were none my life was miserable...

Beatrice wrote: ↑

5 years ago

May I just add that if and when you find yourself playing alone, and specially in Battlegrounds, a solo warrior without heals goes down fast. Just something to keep in mind. It's like having a huge target on your back. That was my experience in vanilla BGs. When there was a healer I was on top of the world, when there were none my life was miserable...

Thats probably right, but he has a healer girlfriend :p

Warlock + healer is nearly as strong as Warrior + healer, would definitely recommend! If she's willing to try something that isn't Paladin, Rogue + Priest and Mage + Priest are both very, very strong combos as well.

Thanks for advice @morbidmike

But she's dwarf Paladin, I can't change that at all...
Its really a problem for a Shadow Priest or Warlock to play Alliance in PvP ? Will of the Forsaken and Tremor Totem seems scary to play Alliance with this classes… ? and for Shadow Priest, Undead and Troll seems having better racial for this spec.

If I remove classes that I do not want to play, Paladin & Druide.
The "non-optimal" classes in alliance, Shadow Priest & Warlock.
The "non-alliance", Shaman.
Rogue ? I don't know, this seems, in the spirit, be a "go play alone" class, I do not want do things she can not do, like following me unseen to fetch an alterac tower, gank flag in warsong or escape a teamfight with Vanish, when she wait rez in cemetery she's a paladin so druid/rogue is not an option, and if we try to join premades they will make me defend flags/spot and her follow the team, maybe I'm wrong on this point, maybe rogue/paladin are good, do not hesitate to tell me if.

So I still have, Hunter, Mage or Warrior
It's already a good progress for my choice

Thanks all for the response.

Warmok wrote: ↑

5 years ago

...

Honestly, you're discrediting Warlock a bit too much on Alliance. Sure 1v1 Warlock is rough on Alliance but as a Warlock I would rather have a Paladin healing me than a Shaman. BoP is a godsend and Paladins have HoJ, which allows you to freecast a Soul Fire for example, and Blessing of Sacrifice to make you even tankier than you already are. Paladins are exceptionally good healers for Warlocks.
Sure, Fear is nerfed when you play Alliance. But with a Paladin healing you, do you really need Fear? The reason Fear doesn't easily break on damage is because Fear is meant to help you outlast your opponents. With a Paladin by your side you can focus more on killing them faster, instead of keeping yourself alive, because your Paladin is doing that for you.
And the upside of playing an Alliance Warlock instead of Horde: Horde has no Paladins to dispel your DoTs. Only Priests can do that on Horde side. As a Horde Warlock you have way more people cleansing off your DoTs.

edit: look at this YT channel and look at how often this guy (very good Warlock player) uses Fear or Seduce, then judge if not rolling Warlock on Alliance >just because< Fear is worse against Horde is worth it.
https://www.youtube.com/user/ikonjimmy/videos

@morbidmike

I'l go Warlock Alliance anyway, Warlock is the class I just want to play, pleasure is not always optimization, especially in vanilla and yeah, Paladin with a Spriest/Warlock/Mage is very good option if you don't want to play Warrior/Heal like everybody say, specially BoP.
I understand you mean too, fear is defensive tool, if you have pocket heal, its better to deal damage.

I heard Death Coil work on Will of the Forsaken, true ?

Warmok wrote: ↑

5 years ago

I heard Death Coil work on Will of the Forsaken, true ?

It's a good choice, I rolled as an Alliance Warlock back in the day as well. It's pretty cool :P
Death Coil works on WotF yeah. There are tons of ways to stall through WotF 1v1 (Death Coil, Grenade, Tidal Charm and against melee Limited Invulnerability Potion, Gnomish Net-o-Matic Projector to name a few), you'll learn to abuse them. WoW PvP is more about group scenarios than 1v1s anyway.
There are much worse things than WotF you'll need to learn to play around such as Priests dispelling your DoTs (counter this by casting rank 1 DoTs, most bad priests will oom themselves dispelling DoTs that won't hurt), Grounding Totem from Shamans (counter this by having your pet destroy them) and Mages Counterspelling your Shadow damage tree (counter this by baiting Counterspell by spamming Searing Pain).

Pro tip if you go with a Nightfall spec, you can spam rank 1 Corruption for very little Mana but it will still proc Nightfall like max rank Corruption would. Nice for fishing those procs ;)

I think that in group PvP, it's better to have a paladin than a shaman, only a priest can dispel in the Horde, only Paladin can BoP you... Shaman have their aggressives tools but, paladin cooldown and buffs…

if I want to play a Caster with Paladin, its firstly because I already play Warrior with another Paladin in BC/Wotlk and because I don't like doing obvious think like Warrior/Heal are in Vanilla, I remember too, I did not like when a Paladin BoP me, can't use physical skill is hard downside for this skill, especially for Warrior of course, but Hunter/Rogue too, for Caster, this skill is so amazing.

Yeah, I don't need or like 1v1 anyway, its not my "thing", especially when you can have a Palaheal that can follow you, I just go Engineer, because is must have. when you say Tidal Charm, this thing have 15min cd, only in duel so ?

Thanks for the tips :P