Darnassus
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1 year ago (1.13.2)
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This is all so petty, lol.


[ Golemagg | Alliance | Hunter | Lucas ]
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1 year ago (1.13.2)
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Congratulations APES! Now you guys can get some sleep :p

Badlands
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1 year ago (1.13.2)
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Lendryn wrote:
1 year ago
Dunno if they had strict priviledges on voice comms but they didn't sound excited at all. I guess I'd be dead too after doing something like that.
If you want to hear screaming, you should get in voice comms when a shaman is tanking, its &*%$#@! exhilarating and heart pounding, literally proving millions of people wrong.

   fendor Vlostek
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1 year ago (1.13.2)
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No point getting excited really when you are the only guild at 60. There's no race at that point. The content is also complete faceroll compared to private servers so I imagine it was a huge letdown to those in the raid.

   Stfuppercut
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1 year ago (1.13.2)
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Caspus wrote:
1 year ago
They are fully min/maxed as every gnome melee is going to get R14. So in the PvP sense they are still min/maxing haha.
Yep. They are next level min maxed hahaha. Takes a good eye to recognize that though.

I love how the threads on this forum that were talking about the potential of a week 1 Rag kill had far more traffic than the post about it actually happening. Those other threads were riddled with people gasping and laughing at the notion that this was possible, yet here we are. For those of us who had a pretty good feeling that week 1-2 was going to be the kill, it feels really good and bad at the same time... Because most of us that knew this was the case were also very interested in seeing the game tuned to be a bit more challenging. So while we knew this would happen, it also stings to know that Classic will be such a watered down version of our private experience.

I'll be honest... The "I told you so's" are really awful for everyone. I hate that I knew layering was going to be terrible. I hate that I knew MC was trivial... I hate that most of us who played private had been preaching about these issues for the past year and it was dismissed ("Private server values are off hehe Classic will be tough hehehe" - right, they are overtuned.). And what I hate the most, is that we were right. Nobody here won. There is no prize for a watered down version of Classic. And this is why the guild did not celebrate after the kill. This entire thing is a bit disappointing.

   Pluuf
g0bledyg00k wrote:
11 months ago
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1 year ago (1.13.2)
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My bet was Progress - But gratz to APES!

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1 year ago (1.13.2)
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How is it a watered version, its 1.12 patch and thats it. Even if it would be buffed 20% hp/dmg what you have been asking for it would just take a few more hours of gearing and leveling maybe a few consumables? For the content to be challenging A. You would have to hit your head really haŕd on something really hard or B. Modify the content so much its not even close to what it was.

A modified version would interest me down the line but most players prolly havent farmed private servers for years and plan to just enjoy it.

None of the ppl I know came to play classic for its raid difficulty. With a background from server first mythic çlears and high arena ratings, we know its gonna be a breeze/slugfest but for the most iconic loots in the game we want to do it.

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1 year ago (1.13.2)
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Isomena wrote:
1 year ago
How is it a watered version, its 1.12 patch and thats it.
No. You didnt start with original talents. You dont start Classic with 8 debuff slots, you get 16. You dont have progressive itemization. It is not as simple as "duuur it be 1.12 so it be da same" - it isnt. Vanilla WoW was significantly more challenging than Classic. Significantly. Private was intentionally tuned to be more challenging than vanilla. There are MANY nuances that make Classic easier, and they add up. Classic is the easiest version of vanilla we have seen by a massive margin - you can find videos of APES talking about this exact subject. Which is why APES didnt even run a specific guild comp to get the world first. They simply took everyone in the level range and went into MC to clear. The clear itself took less effort and less coordination than similar attempts on private.

I'm not going to sit here and say that changing some of this would have had a huge impact on the world first teams, but it would have on the majority of the playerbase. The version of MC we have is much easier than it was in vanilla. Though the entire game would have needed to be tuned by quite a lot to be relevant for the modern gamer.

g0bledyg00k wrote:
11 months ago
Never making a single investment again until I 100% know it pays off.
2000 IQ :wink:
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1 year ago (1.13.2)
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Stfuppercut wrote:
1 year ago
There are MANY nuances that make Classic easier, and they add up. Classic is the easiest version of vanilla we have seen by a massive margin
yup, some might say now is the best time to try new stuff since everything has never been so easy... :wink:

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1 year ago (1.13.2)
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Caperfin wrote:
1 year ago
yup, some might say now is the best time to try new stuff since everything has never been so easy... :wink:
But most wont. Because they still wont be interested in carrying dead weight. Its the harsh truth. If everyone goes fully meme tarded, the raid cant take off, and if they full min/max they can clear the content in the first week. Most will fall somewhere in between leaning more towards optimization because people value their time.

g0bledyg00k wrote:
11 months ago
Never making a single investment again until I 100% know it pays off.
2000 IQ :wink:
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1 year ago (1.13.2)
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The main reason why I gave up going hard on a mainspec warrior and rushing to 60/speed clearing content again is I knew i'd be left unfulfilled again. This is why i've embraced going hard on a meme spec again (prot pally) because I know thats going to keep me playing overall.

   Isomena Pippina Pluuf res
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1 year ago (1.13.2)
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Caspus wrote:
1 year ago
The main reason why I gave up going mainspec and instead of rushing as a warrior and doing speed clears again I knew I'd be left unfulfilled again. Why I've embraced going hard on a meme spec again because I know that's going to keep me playing overall.
amen :)

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1 year ago (1.13.2)
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Even if it would be a "harder" version of vanilla its still gonna be piss easy for players who are worth more than a grain of salt.

I would of liked blizz to bring all the talents bk and patch em as they went bk then but it wouldnt og mattered alot cos we still know how/what would be the best thing. Guides are everywhere

You cannot erase the knowledge/ skill, its just gonna be piss easy unless they bring some broken patch from before and I would bet it would still gonna be super easy, take a few hours more? Yeah maybe but still easy, the bosses would have to be reworked etc so the first ones would have to research and try it out but after that everybody reads a guide and done.

Classic gameplay doesnt support some super hard gameplay, you just need to bring shit players so you get some difficulty.

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1 year ago (1.13.2)
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Right @Isomena BUT Classic is nerfed uneccesarily. So while I can understand your perspective, why take a game that will likely be trivial by modern standards and then nerf the shit out of it?

g0bledyg00k wrote:
11 months ago
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1 year ago (1.13.2)
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Stfuppercut wrote:
1 year ago
I love how the threads on this forum that were talking about the potential of a week 1 Rag kill had far more traffic than the post about it actually happening.
To be fair, those threads were taking place before the game launched. Everybody's too busy playing now to log on and talk about this.

   Gensei
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1 year ago (1.13.2)
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@Stfuppercut Its the closest to a finished "product", even if their decisions have been questionable towards game design etc. Every game has always been a blizzlike product with minimal bugs etc (compared to many other studios with this scale of a game). And they think players always want it super approachable, which is a bummer.

I kinda understand blizzards point when they do 1.12 only, they probably thought of it to be a minigame of sorts. You main retail and go fool around in classic abit. With that ideology the player wouldnt want a "bad" product, he would feel bad if you couldnt suddenly use your dots in a dungeon cos warriors sunders drop etc. He just wants to have some fun play around maybe go check out the new raids and be done with it. If you would have to put loads of effort into it, nobody would touch it ( in their minds) and thats why they also went the minimal effort route. I imagine this way they can cut off valuable work hours even if it wouldnt be much but if I have understood correctly blizz is not floating as well as before. Everything from upgrading loot tables researching talent things implementing em etc prolly cost thousands of dollars and would they want to sink em if they thought its not worthwhile. Would be fun if they tried launching progressive servers (maybe also modified servers?) like in a year or so, but I feel like its not coming, they have always been against things like these because it truthfully can be a bit confusing if you dont implement it right and splits the playerbase. But I still think it would bring fresh air to classic and keep it rolling like a boulder downhill.

I dont have a crystal ball but many things has pointed to some kind of version for this "fun goofing around nothing serious" vibe in blizzards interviews etc.

I think they just didnt believe, I hope they do somethin awesome next but I think its just gonna be blatantly TBC with 1 patch again like they did classic or something similar. Its still better than anything the market offers but it wouldnt be the "dream" decision for me.

There are countless of awesome options for blizz to keep this shit fresh and bring new longetivity but I fear its not coming.

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Deleted User 2577
1 year ago (1.13.2)
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Are they a euro guild.?

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1 year ago (1.13.2)
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Well color me surprised. Grats to them!
I think I mentioned that there was a 30% or so chance to do a week 1 Rag clear, and I've been proven wrong (technically I wasn't wrong hehehe).

I think the "cannot be done" people were more focused on the rep requirements / getting enough people to max / near max level, and the logistics of things, and not the "Vanilla is harder than private servers" (Because we saw in various reports that pservers were upping the damage/HP of bosses/mobs in dungeons and raids to make them more challenging) approach.

I also don't think this takes anything from MY gameplay experience. This actually means the (earlier?) raids are more accessible therefore even casual / social guilds have a strong chance of setting foot in these raids. And since the content isn't going anywhere, people can take their sweet time getting there.

   Isomena
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1 year ago (1.13.2)
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Isomena wrote:
1 year ago
Stfuppercut Its the closest to a finished "product", even if their decisions have been questionable towards game design etc.
Was it? How can you quantify which is closer. Perhaps some of the values on private were inaccurate but layering has a massive impact on the authenticity of the project. What about raid difficulty? Classic values are more accurate BUT they lack progressive itemization and have more debuff slots... At this point I cant say either product is more or less accurate. I will say that private tended to capture or preserve more of the actual difficulty of vanilla while Classic runs a lot smoother and has some better scripting. I dont know if anyone could classify which product was more authentic due to the nuances of that discussion. However, private is more challenging flat out. Private servers were the heroic version of vanilla. Retail vanilla was normal mode and Classic is raid finder.

Dont get me wrong, I LOVE Classic, but I would also swallow a massive turd if it had Classic written on the side of it - I just like WoW period, even if Classic could have been a whole lot better.

g0bledyg00k wrote:
11 months ago
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1 year ago (1.13.2)
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As I said they just went the most user friendly, fun/goofingaround/minigame, most cost efficient route. Because they didnt believe.

I hope we get a prpgressive server launch but 99.9% there is no chance its gonna happen. And the sam3 thing is gonna happen with BC launch and its gonna take alot away from this project like it did here.

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1 year ago (1.13.2)
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Isomena wrote:
1 year ago
As I said they just went the most user friendly, fun/goofingaround/minigame, most cost efficient route. Because they didnt believe.

I hope we get a prpgressive server launch but 99.9% there is no chance its gonna happen. And the sam3 thing is gonna happen with BC launch and its gonna take alot away from this project like it did here.
I agree with all of this, but I also dont believe that it is the most accurate product to vanilla given the vast differences that have been created. There is an argument either way to which is more authentic, Classic or Private, but we can all agree that Classic is THE easiest version of vanilla we have ever played.

g0bledyg00k wrote:
11 months ago
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1 year ago (1.13.2)
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Probably and most likely yes, I kinda dont mind this version cos I know vanilla would not test my personal skill set unless heaaaavvily modified no matter the version (not a brag) , we doin circles now so lets hope blizz gets something out that would make us both even more happy down the road.

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1 year ago (1.13.2)
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Stfuppercut wrote:
1 year ago
I am super happy that I got to experience private and for those of us who did, we understand how massive the nerf to difficulty is while entering Classic, especially in raids as private was intentionally tuned to be more challenging.
I didn't realize this. How "massive" is the difference, really?

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1 year ago (1.13.2)
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Saltybob wrote:
1 year ago
I didn't realize this. How "massive" is the difference, really?
Really significant when you consider the massive shift in talents and class performance throughout the course of vanilla. You are getting the 1.12 version of classes. This is a big deal.

Debuff slots are insanely important, so consider that going from 8 slots to 16 allows raids to stack POWERFUL debuffs like https://classic.wowhead.com/spell=23653/nightfall and https://classic.wowhead.com/item=12798/annihilator but allows raids to avoid difficult decisions and allows them to simply use ALL of the valuable debuffs simultaneously. A luxury that wasnt present for people progressing through early vanilla. This obviously has significant impacts on a raids throughput.

No progressive itemization, so you are getting a very buffed version of many pieces of gear. So the gear you are acquiring in raids is often far more powerful during the initial game than it was in actual vanilla.

There are other nuances to consider as well but these are some of the most glaring indirect nerfs to the content.

   Saltybob
g0bledyg00k wrote:
11 months ago
Never making a single investment again until I 100% know it pays off.
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1 year ago (1.13.2)
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Every half-decent *newly formed* guild can do this kind of kill (undergeared and undermanned) after a couple months leveling and coordinating their team.


These guys are not a newly formed guild, they've been doing this kind of thing on a perpetual PTR (to give an analogy everyone would understand) for years upon years.

Not a lot of guilds have the kind of people that would rush to 60 (or high enough level) in the first week and able to compress all that game time and experience in so short a period.
Yes it is an accomplishment but these are the parameters. Just to put it in perspective.



Now all the posturing about private servers being "harder" and this somehow being the reason the private server team - having beaten the harder version - stomped over Method is utter bullshit. :lol:
The two versions are similar and there's a lot of subtle mechanics that miss in private servers all over the game (RSTS being a very obvious example)
They did this despite playing a similar version of the game, not because of it.

Edit: I'm also happy and rooting for an amateur anything team beating a professional sponsored team, who doesn't love an underdog, so this is not me ragging on APES, just tone down the chest thumping a little bit :wink:

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