Loch modan
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Gnome
Mage
1 year ago (Beta)
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Hello there,

I still can't decide if I should pick human or gnome although I said I'd pick human in the other thread. I was wondering now if there was a 1vs1 between human and gnome mage, wouldn't human ALWAYS lose because of escape artist for gnomes? I really want to play human but I don't want to be weaker than gnomes. Human racials are just so bad for mages. I could ignore the 5% int bonus for gnomes but I can't accept losing to gnomes in BG or 1vs1 just because they have that overpowered escape artist.

So, in direct comparison, is human mage really way worse than gnome?

Thanks in advance!

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Alliance
Warrior
1 year ago (Beta)
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Nah, you can just play human. Gnomes ain't people.

On mage vs. mage duels escape artist won't help you win the duel. Against other classes it's not so 'phenomenal' either.

Ashenvale
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US Fairbanks
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Gnome
Warrior
1 year ago (Beta)
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Cook wrote:
1 year ago
Nah, you can just play human. Gnomes ain't people.


:lol:

   Pluuf Kinzu Relik ShamelessEU Vlostek
Hunter Marksman
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EU Zandalar Tribe
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Night Elf
Hunter
1 year ago (Beta)
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Hey there,

It seems like you are on the fence between visuals and minmax mentality. Ask yourself the question: Are you physically capable of getting to level 60 as a gnome? Even if you are a fast speedrunner, that's 5 days of playtime, a.k.a. 119 hours watching a gnome doing casting, running, dying and drinking.

Now let's compare your endgame Gnome to your endgame Human. I use Sixtyupgrades for this, it's a nice tool.

Here is the gnome:
https://sixtyupgrades.com/set/q2P98QfcVT1yBTjgZKbqSr

Here is the human:
https://sixtyupgrades.com/set/hWntnfSNHTNZvhjAMChi4j

I notice that Sixtyupgrades.com does not account for racials, but w/e, we can calculate that ourselves.

So our mages have 304 intellect at level 60 in pretty good gear. Naxx level gear. Now if we add 5% to that, we get a whopping 319 intellect. that's a 15 intellect difference, in the upper limits of good gear. That's 225 mana and 0.25% crit. A max rank frostbolt costs 290 mana, so going Gnome gives you just one frostbolt less. Is that worth looking at silly animations for 119 hours in leveling alone, while not even accounting for all the endgame content you are going to do in order to get to that level of gear?

We all know the answer to that question. Go human. :wink:

   Cook DoomC erko Spelevink Selexin
Blasted Lands
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Dwarf
Paladin
1 year ago (Beta)
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The gnome racials are vastly superior, since you actually will have use for them.
Perception is useless on a human mage since r1 arcane explosion completely replaces it.

You are making a mistake if you roll human mage.

   Stfuppercut
Blasted Lands
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EU Gehennas
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Undead
Mage
1 year ago (Beta)
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I believe in that you should just play whatever makes you enjoy the game the most and what will keep you playing the game the longest since it's your adventure. You will be playing that character for so many hours maybe even 100's of just grinding for gold, dungeons, raids etc. and if you do not enjoy your time because of the visuals of your character then you're just gonna be in pain most of the time. I did the same thing when I played on a private server a while back and picked gnome for that min/max but I hated every minute of it and eventually quit for another character.

   Cook Zacheous
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EU Dreadmist
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Horde
1 year ago (Beta)
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Don't forget https://classic.wowhead.com/spell=20599/diplomacy, this will save you a lot of time in Classic.

   Gallow sevenos
Winterspring
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Human
Warrior
1 year ago (Beta)
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Isn't it a pretty easy choice? The 5% intelligence increase as a Gnome is pretty God-tier in terms of min-maxing.

Human Warrior - Shazzrah Firemaw PVP
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1 year ago (Beta)
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ariba wrote:
1 year ago
Isn't it a pretty easy choice? The 5% intelligence increase as a Gnome is pretty God-tier in terms of min-maxing.
Another poster just made the calculations and it's "225 mana and 0.25% crit" in naxx gear. Looks pretty useless to me.

Winterspring
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Human
Warrior
1 year ago (Beta)
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Cook wrote:
1 year ago
ariba wrote:
1 year ago
Isn't it a pretty easy choice? The 5% intelligence increase as a Gnome is pretty God-tier in terms of min-maxing.
Another poster just made the calculations and it's "225 mana and 0.25% crit" in naxx gear. Looks pretty useless to me.
Eh, in terms of vanilla, yea it probably is, considering how silly easy the PVE content is, but that's still one more cast of x spell if you're going to go ham on min-maxing.

Human Warrior - Shazzrah Firemaw PVP
Alterac Valley
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Dwarf
Paladin
1 year ago (Beta)
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Cook wrote:
1 year ago
Gnomes ain't people.

   Lendryn Selexin Sauva ShamelessEU
Mage Frost
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US Thalnos
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1 year ago (Beta)
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Pluuf wrote:
1 year ago
We all know the answer to that question. Go human.
But I like Gnome.


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Shaman Enhancement
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Troll
Shaman
1 year ago (Beta)
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At the end of the day, it really just comes down to if you can avoid going oom through a 3-4 min fight, the amount of crit provided by the gnome bonus int is okay, but it's the mana pool size that matters.

But as a mage, you have mana potions, mana gems, evocation, dark runes, and god knows what else. No other class has more tools for mana replenishment in combat.

Certainly, if you worry that you'll hate playing a gnome and you won't enjoy leveling it, then certainly just go human. What does thinking about life at 60 matter if you can't get there?

Gensei - Shaman
Temaius - Paladin
Bloodsail Buccaneers
Redridge Mountains
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Human
Paladin
1 year ago (Beta)
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If your gut says to play human, just play as a human. You're only weaker than a gnome mage if that gnome is better or has an identical skill level and setup as you, otherwise the difference is negligible in my eyes. If you don't want to play as a gnome then you're going to regret it halfway in.

Loch modan
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Gnome
Mage
1 year ago (Beta)
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Big thanks for all of your answers. Considering my starting post: Is escape artist really that good in a 1vs1 situation or in PvE? Or is it negligible?

Hunter Survival
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US Smolderweb
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Tauren
Warrior
1 year ago (Beta)
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Magezi wrote:
1 year ago
Big thanks for all of your answers. Considering my starting post: Is escape artist really that good in a 1vs1 situation or in PvE? Or is it negligible?
In PvE it won't matter. In 1v1's you can use it to remove hamstring or crippling poison which is great. Blink only has you covered for rooting effects.

That said warrior is already an easy match-up for any mage.

Alterac Valley
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EU Bloodfang
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Orc
Shaman
1 year ago (Beta)
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If you are torn, go human. You will thank yourself later. Only go gnome if you don't care about style or actually like their look.

Back in classic I was torn, was going for min maxing but eventually deleted my gnome warlock at lvl60 with a couple of MC epics. I never looked back, because I could not take that anymore and the 'workaround' of always using noggers or deviates is too expensive.

For racials: both escape artist and awareness are pretty whatever for mage. If you want to have an impactful racial as mage go undead like 100% of the hardcore mages.

Felwood
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Gnome
Mage
1 year ago (Beta)
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I personally always chose a Gnome Mage.
It seems like a fitting character for the class, plus we get int and a very useful racial after blink is on CD.

The fitting class for Humans and Orcs to me is a warlock but that's my opinion :p
https://classic.wowhead.com/spell=20599/diplomacy vs https://classic.wowhead.com/spell=20591/expansive-mind

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Warlock Affliction
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US Bigglesworth
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Hunter
1 year ago (Beta)
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That website looks pretty neat. Never heard about it before.

Ashenvale
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US Fairbanks
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Gnome
Warrior
1 year ago (Beta)
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DoomC wrote:
1 year ago
That website looks pretty neat. Never heard about it before.
Are you guys able to see a character rendered on the page with all the gear? It seems like there is supposed to be one there but I can't see one on my screen.

Silverpine Forest
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Undead
Warrior
1 year ago (Beta)
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The correct answer is BLOOD ELF mage.

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Paladin Retribution
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Human
Paladin
1 year ago (Beta)
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Dude, roll a gnome, humans are boring anyway and, their racials are not that bad for mage, but if you already have a human character planned, make your mage a gnome

Priest Holy
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EU Wyrmthalak
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Dwarf
Priest
1 year ago (Beta)
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Play what you like the most, that goes for every class/race. Unless you are going to join a super hardcore guild i wouldn't min/max. If you don't connect with your character whats the point in doing a little better on meters etc.

Play to have fun (unless your a ret pala rofl)

Warlock Affliction
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US Bigglesworth
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Hunter
1 year ago (Beta)
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Pippina wrote:
1 year ago
Are you guys able to see a character rendered on the page with all the gear? It seems like there is supposed to be one there but I can't see one on my screen.
Nope. Seems like a bug.

Silverpine Forest
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Undead
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1 year ago (Beta)
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Kuro wrote:
1 year ago
make your mage a gnome
Gnomes have +10 to engineering. Engineering is obviously a hunter profession. Therefore, if you're going to roll a gnome, you should make him/her a hunter.

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