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The AMA brought to my attention an issue of which I was not previously aware: the fact that certain quests and world events depended on a lack of player knowledge, and will be "spoiled" by knowing what we know now. The location of Mankrik's wife, and the exact materials and quantities of those materials needed for the AQ war effort, are the most frequently cited examples, and players have suggested changing this data so that it will once again be unknown to players, providing an experience more comparable to what players had to go through back in 2006. Blizzard has insisted on sticking with the original data.

I think I have a compromise solution: retain and use the old data, but add more, and add some randomization. In the case of Mankrik's wife, her original location could instead be one of several different locations where she can possibly appear, and she could be moved to one of these locations at random with every Tuesday reset/maintenance. So, the original location is still being used by the game for its original purpose. You'd still be able to find her there, sometimes... but you'd also have to search just like in the old days.

For AQ, you don't even need to add new data. Just add a little bit of random rearrangement to the existing data. Originally, there were:

5 repeatable quests that awarded 10 signets each (1 neutral, 2 alliance, 2 horde)
5 quests that awarded 7 signets each (3 neutral, 0 alliance, 2 horde)
5 quests that awarded 5 signets each (0 neutral, 3 alliance, 2 horde)
5 quests that awarded 3 signets each (0 neutral, 3 alliance, 2 horde)
5 quests that awarded 1 signet each (1 neutral, 2 alliance, 2 horde)

I'd suggest keeping this exact pattern, but randomizing which quests are neutral, which ones are alliance-only, and which ones are horde-only. So instead of 400,000 Runecloth Bandages being the neutral quest, it could be alliance-only, the alliance-only quest for 24,000 Thorium Bars would become a Horde quest, and the horde-only quest for 10,000 Baked Salmon would become a neutral quest. But they'd all still be worth the same number of signets as before, and they'd only be able to swap places with other quests worth the same amount of signets, so you don't have one faction getting all the ten-signet quests and the other faction getting all the one-signet quests. Again, this preserves the original game data, being used for its original purpose. The materials needed, and the total amount of each material needed per server, does not change, but the slight randomization preserves that element of not knowing what you'll need. And every realm would be different.

Of course, I won't complain either way.

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Black Monarch wrote:
1 year ago
The AMA brought to my attention an issue of which I was not previously aware: the fact that certain quests and world events depended on a lack of player knowledge, and will be "spoiled" by knowing what we know now. The location of Mankrik's wife, and the exact materials and quantities of those materials needed for the AQ war effort, are the most frequently cited examples, and players have suggested changing this data so that it will once again be unknown to players, providing an experience more comparable to what players had to go through back in 2006. Blizzard has insisted on sticking with the original data.

I think I have a compromise solution: retain and use the old data, but add more, and add some randomization. In the case of Mankrik's wife, her original location could instead be one of several different locations where she can possibly appear, and she could be moved to one of these locations at random with every Tuesday reset/maintenance. So, the original location is still being used by the game for its original purpose. You'd still be able to find her there, sometimes... but you'd also have to search just like in the old days.
Edit: re-read your post and answered my own question, lol. I just noticed you said move her every server reset and not at random intervals or every quest completion, as an example. Got you.

I get what you mean. Even the term 'No Changes! is open to interpretation... Sticking to the Mankrik example, one interpretation is to leave her where she was. But your experience has changed now, you already know where she is. That's technically a change. Changing her location would restore the original experience, which would also be another interpretation of 'No Changes!' *even by changing the quest*

Makes me glad I'm not the one making these decisions :lol:

I would still leave everything as-is. Trying to change things up to surprise people would involve changing a lot of things across the board just for the sake of a fresh experience. Just changing a single quest here and there wouldn't cut it. And then the issue of unintended consequences from changing so many things can rear its ugly head. And then it's not classic anymore, it's a new game that just looks like the old one with lots of similarities. And I don't want that, I want the original game.

I think for the most part, if you want to be surprised by quests then don't use wowhead, don't use addons like questy, don't follow levelling guides. You're not going to remember every single quest, so don't spoil it with addons and levelling guides along the way. Guarantee unless you've been doing nothing but grind private servers for years that you're not going to remember every quest anyway.

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Black Monarch wrote:
1 year ago
The AMA brought to my attention an issue of which I was not previously aware...
Really? You didnt think of this? This is what many of us have been saying since Classic announcement. You can either create an authentic replication or an authentic experience, but you cant have both.

Based on your recent posts it almost feels like you heard about Classic 2-3 weeks ago and are playing catchup. I'd spend less time creating new posts and more time reading old posts and informing yourself.

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Never making a single investment again until I 100% know it pays off.
2000 IQ :wink:
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I guess my biggest question then is how many quests are you talking about doing this to? You list two examples, but how many you really talking? You talking about revamping every quest in the game to add random elements to them? You only have a few specific ones in mind?

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Stfuppercut wrote:
1 year ago
Really? You didnt think of this?
i literally had no idea, until today, that the requirements for the AQ quests were kept a surprise from the player base until 1.09 actually dropped. Nowadays that stuff always gets data-mined and shows up on WoWhead months in advance.
Stfuppercut wrote:
1 year ago
Based on your recent posts it almost feels like you heard about Classic 2-3 weeks ago and are playing catchup.
Based on YOUR recent posts, you're an asshole with a habit of mistaking your own ignorance for other people's ignorance.

There are two Classic WoW groups on Facebook, each with approximately 17,000 people. I've been in both groups for the past two years. At NO POINT in those two years did ANYONE in EITHER group bring up this issue. I did not hear about Barrens Chat until 2 or 3 months ago, and in that time, I have not seen ANYONE discuss the possibility that players would spend a whole year stockpiling materials in order to perform a mass turn-in on day one of phase 5. Official Blizzard forums for Classic WoW did not exist until recently.

To put it simply, the community has been dead silent on this matter.
Stfuppercut wrote:
1 year ago
I'd spend less time creating new posts and more time reading old posts and informing yourself.
Were I in your position, I'd STFU entirely.
Pippina wrote:
1 year ago
I guess my biggest question then is how many quests are you talking about doing this to? You list two examples, but how many you really talking? You talking about revamping every quest in the game to add random elements to them? You only have a few specific ones in mind?
I haven't seen the vast majority of quests in Classic, nor do I remember the vast majority of the ones that I have seen. However, I'd expect that extremely few quests and world events depended on a lack of advance knowledge in this way.

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Black Monarch wrote:
1 year ago
There are two Classic WoW groups on Facebook, each with approximately 17,000 people.
God damn boomers.


I will say that some of the appeal of Classic is knowing exactly what it is that we are getting. Plus one of the issues of changing something like the requirements for the opening of AQ, is that it also affects the economy.

Personally, I want everything to stay as is. I'm not looking to play Classic because I want to relive the exact same feeling of an unknown world, but rather because I know that the game is good.

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Kolvacs wrote:
1 year ago
one of the issues of changing something like the requirements for the opening of AQ, is that it also affects the economy.
On the other hand, knowing what materials we'll need in advance will also affect the economy. Damned if you do...

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Stfuppercut wrote:
1 year ago
Based on your recent posts it almost feels like you heard about Classic 2-3 weeks ago and are playing catchup. I'd spend less time creating new posts and more time reading old posts and informing yourself.
Based on his posting history I'd say he's mainly interested in getting to level 60 on this forum.

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If they (Blizzard) wont change the mats for the war effort i hope they are willing to switch the mats each faction needs. So the horde has to deliver the materials the alliance needed and the alliance would have to deliver the materials the horde needed. We need to switch it up a bit!

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Stfuppercut wrote:
1 year ago
Based on your recent posts it almost feels like you heard about Classic 2-3 weeks ago and are playing catchup. I'd spend less time creating new posts and more time reading old posts and informing yourself.
But without shitposting how will he inflate his account level? :lol:

No one take the b8. He's starting this thread to farm replies, not have a discussion in good faith.

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Justbe wrote:
1 year ago
Based on his posting history I'd say he's mainly interested in getting to level 60 on this forum.
The forum has levels?
Lendryn wrote:
1 year ago
No one take the b8. He's starting this thread to farm replies, not have a discussion in good faith.
If you don't have anything of value to contribute to a thread about a serious issue, have you considered just shutting the hell up instead of spamming it?

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Black Monarch wrote:
1 year ago
To put it simply, the community has been dead silent on this matter.
To put it simply, you weren't aware of this specific issue.

I, among with many other vanilla/classic and private server experienced players, are very aware of this problem and have been for some time. Not everyone will know this though, as it became more apparent to me during private server experiences, when I saw it happen first hand. But the problem isn't unique to the AQ event, every boss, every quest, every raid, every bug, every item is known to previous players (particularly those who engaged in Private Server communities). People know how the game is played, they know what to expect, and they will take advantage of that knowledge. That is why Blizzard wont change it, because if you change this, you may as well change boss mechanics, item drop locations, NPC locations, Mankriks Wife - or any other list of unnecessary changes, to keep it 'fresh' and provide 'changes'.

As with most things, they could just stealth increase the amounts, rather than change the types of materials to collect and donate to the War Effort. This would go someway to appease #nochanges, but also increasing the time/difficulty of the experience, to feel more 'Authentic'. Again, as they have said, they wont do it. They are adopting 1.12 exactly, and that appears to be their ideology throughout all decisions.

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Selexin wrote:
1 year ago
every boss, every quest, every raid, every bug, every item is known to previous players (particularly those who engaged in Private Server communities). People know how the game is played, they know what to expect, and they will take advantage of that knowledge. That is why Blizzard wont change it, because if you change this, you may as well change boss mechanics, item drop locations, NPC locations, Mankriks Wife - or any other list of unnecessary changes, to keep it 'fresh' and provide 'changes'.

That is a false comparison. While all of those things were unknown to players at launch, extremely few of them specifically depended on player ignorance as a mechanic. Most quests will TELL you where you need to go, even if those directions are poorly written and confusing. Mankrik's wife was just "somewhere in the barrens" and the Barrens were like a quarter of that damn continent.

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Black Monarch wrote:
1 year ago
That is a false comparison. While all of those things were unknown to players at launch, extremely few of them specifically depended on player ignorance as a mechanic. Most quests will TELL you where you need to go, even if those directions are poorly written and confusing. Mankrik's wife was just "somewhere in the barrens" and the Barrens were like a quarter of that damn continent.
What is your point? Slippery slope material here, if you change AQ War Effort, and Mankrik Wife location, what else should/would they change? And for what purpose? They are trying to recreate the vanilla WoW game at 1.12 patch, and as much as possible the vanilla wow experience. At this point it would appear that their objective is a copy/paste of 1.12 as it proposes the lowest risk option and leaves no real room for interpretation or change. If they change AQ War Effort just because people know how it works, you open the floodgates to changing the entire game, because people know how it works.

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Selexin wrote:
1 year ago
What is your point? Slippery slope material here, if you change AQ War Effort, and Mankrik Wife location, what else should/would they change?
Only the parts that specifically rely on player ignorance in order to work as intended.

But that's not the point of this thread. This isn't for discussing what should or shouldn't be "changed to keep it the same". This is about possible solutions IF these things were to be changed.

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Black Monarch wrote:
1 year ago
i literally had no idea, until today, that the requirements for the AQ quests were kept a surprise from the player base until 1.09 actually dropped. Nowadays that stuff always gets data-mined and shows up on WoWhead months in advance.
You should either get off facebook and join forums with people who have played the game more. Maybe do some research as well first, a simply google search will net you all this:



https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/com ... h=d7d226c8

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t ... ort/187911

https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/com ... h=6ba61314

That combined with:
Black Monarch wrote:
1 year ago
The forum has levels?
Essentially shows to me you are a troll.

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Justbe wrote:
1 year ago
join forums with people who have played the game more. Maybe do some research as well first, a simply google search will net you all this:
Yooutube isn't a forum and Reddit is inferior in every way to social-networking sites.

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Black Monarch wrote:
1 year ago
This is about possible solutions IF these things were to be changed.
I guess with their confirmation that it isn't changing, the discussion doesn't have legs.

There are so many 'what if' things about re-releasing an old game, that we could run around in circles chasing our tails for years. As we are 5 days from launch and with a lot more certainty on what Blizzard are intending to deliver, we don't need to spend our time guessing and speculating so much (we definitely needed to months ago, when there was still some level of uncertainty).

I think the biggest discussion point moving forward from release is Classic+ vs. TBC. A lot of people will want Classic+ but getting a million+ people to agree on which direction to take it will not be a good business decision for Blizzard. They will likely launch a separate TBC cluster of servers with optional transfer from Classic WoW servers. That is easy for them, as stated in the AMA, and also a safer option with a more guaranteed return on investment.

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Selexin wrote:
1 year ago
we are 5 days from launch
But phase 5 is still a bit further off :)

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Black Monarch wrote:
1 year ago
But phase 5 is still a bit further off :)
I don't think Blizzard are changing their stance of adopting 1.12 religiously though. Classic WoW is basically 1.12 with Layering for Phase 1 to deal with launch pressure and population drop off. I doubt they will get to Phase 4, then suddenly go "yeh nah fuck it, lets make some changes to the 1.12 client".

5 days boys..... 5 days.

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Selexin wrote:
1 year ago
5 days boys..... 5 days.

   Selexin
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Selexin wrote:
1 year ago
I don't think Blizzard are changing their stance of adopting 1.12 religiously though. Classic WoW is basically 1.12 with Layering for Phase 1 to deal with launch pressure and population drop off. I doubt they will get to Phase 4, then suddenly go "yeh nah fuck it, lets make some changes to the 1.12 client".
*grumble grumble 1.09 loot tables for certain dungeon bosses grumble grumble*

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Black Monarch wrote:
1 year ago
Yooutube isn't a forum and Reddit is inferior in every way to social-networking sites.
Have fun shitposting until you're level 60 bud.

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Changing the things you listed won't have that much of an effect. People share information more rapidly nowadays, so the alterations won't remain an alteration for so long! Also: people are, simply put, better players now. It won't be as mystifying of an experience, no matter which way you change it - mostly because a lot of people are concerned about the destination and not the journey, which was not the case back then. Just let Blizzard's game developers make that decision, and play the game as it is.


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