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Tauren
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1 year ago (Beta)
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95% of PvE content in classic is extremely simple and doesn't require any minmaxing whatsoever.
However, if the community feels like so, they could still expel certain classes for being unable to perform at the level of other classes, even if it's not required.

Do you think that such phenomena will take place or not?

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1 year ago (Beta)
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At the end of the day, what the “community” thinks doesn’t matter. It’s what guilds think, and specifically their leadership’s priorities.

Do I think people spend too much time dunking on the sub-optimal specs to the point it’s discouraging people from playing something they’d like? Yes.

Do I also think people too often say to follow your dreams and play whatever you want while ignoring the consequences of such a decision? Yes.

I think a lot of BS around bad specs or whatnot will fade within a few months. The only real BS is going to be people not letting a Ret paladin or whatever into their Scarlet Monastery run bc they think that it matters at level 38. But then you can spot these people and perhaps enlighten them or choose not to play with them. Individual guilds will have their own policies. If they are too ridiculous about it, you probably didn’t want to play with those people anyway.

Overall, I think it’s probably going to be fine. People who go too far in either direction will learn or you’ll just choose not to play with them.

   daisyKutter fendor Pluuf Falcon mwaf blue
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Orc
Warlock
1 year ago (Beta)
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People will stop shitting on certain classes when they have trouble filling a 40-man raid. Then they'll realize having a couple druids on DPS isn't going to stop them from clearing MC. Every class brings something to the table, so at worst I only expect to see hardcore guilds making a fuss about certain specs.


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Tauren
Shaman
1 year ago (Beta)
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Not sure where you got the idea of “simple”. Videos or did you play in vanilla?

Also asking your healers to raid with a heal spec is not minmaxing. Some healing specs are simply way better for raiding content due to mana management and abilities.

People are confusing “i want play my way” with “39 people have to accept i’m a special snowflake who can’t be bothered to spec for teamplay for even 3 months until we gear up”.

Remember there are no welfare epics in Classic.

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Tauren
Warrior
1 year ago (Beta)
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It will absolutely happen. Vanilla is already a notorious time-sink; maybe ret paladins can finish a dungeon but it'll happen much slower than an optimized group.

Some hybrids will put in the extra mile to make their class work but figuring out who's who will take effort that not everyone will have the time or patience for. Polls we've seen suggest the pure classes will not be in short supply either.

   Stfuppercut
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Warlock
1 year ago (Beta)
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It is heavily reliant on which guild/social group you are in. I foresee only the "hardcore min-maxers" really caring about it.
I'm rolling human warlock and in a fairly PvE competitive guild but we aren't going to poopsock min-max.

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Gnome
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1 year ago (Beta)
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The meta impacts every facet of every game where there is any level of competition in a multiplayer environment. It was that way in Vanilla, we just know more now. Yes, meme specs will be disregarded by a gigantic portion of the population. Yes, meme specs will have FAR less opportunity. Yes, every spec can raid. Yes, every piece of content can be completed with 39 players so in theory, every spec is viable. No, that wont matter in most cases. Can you bring a boomkin? Hell yes! Will anyone bring a boomkin? Hell no! With very few exceptions.

Go to an organized team of 39 players and try to explain that you want to play a completely selfish spec, despite how poorly it performs, while not pulling your weight but that you still want to attend raids and absorb loot that could be given to someone else who would provide more value and tell me how the majority will respond. Explain to them that you DO have access to information that allows you to understand how terrible that spec is, but then also tell them that you will disregard that information because you still seek to play something that makes YOU happy, that makes YOU feel special and that makes YOUR play experience better, even if it costs the team... In many cases, that team would rather just do the raid with 39 players. This is just reality.

"I dont need to optimize my choice, not EVERYONE in the 40 man needs to be optimized anyhow" - True.

But we also dont need 40 people, so if you arent contributing to our success, youre simply extra weight that we have to carry... We'd rather just do the content without you. (the mentality of most progressive raid teams who aim to achieve any level of success).

Based on the size of servers, finding raiders to fill a team and PUG will be FAR easier. In a community with more people, individual people are less valuable. While certain teams may have been willing to accommodate shit specs in the past, this will be less likely on a server boasting a massive player base. "Damn, we really need a tank and no one else is on... Guess we go with Jon the prot paladin" - Nope, not in Classic. This server has 50k players and 20% are warriors, lets find a warrior tank for the raid, yay!

Go look at the surveys that over 40k users took and see the MASSIVE portion of players using Engineering and then ask me if people are concerned with the meta? The meta will impact the majority of players and those players will impact everyone else.

This is not to say that you can not play a meme spec. This is not to say that you will be unable to raid as a meme spec. The meta WILL drive the choices of most raid teams and you will have less opportunities as a meme.

   Vlostek Lendryn
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Winterspring
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1 year ago (Beta)
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People will play whatever they want, a lot of players will come from retail and don't know / care what the classic meta is. As always there will be guys that do not want that "shitty spec" on their raid because they think this is a zero sum game where if you pick a suboptimal spec is because you don't care about the group as much as them. But hey, there will be always people like this, just don't play with them, they will find their place just as you.

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Ashenvale
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Night Elf
Warrior
1 year ago (Beta)
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Unless you are a top guild pushing for world-firsts, or a hardcore guild looking for your first couple full clears, not accepting your meme-buddy just makes you a jerk. Now, I'm not saying to open the flood gates and bring 4 Ret Pals, 3 Booms and 2 Shadow Priests. But if you're sitting at 37 people in raid, that maybe one of each who've shown they're really trying to be the best their spec can be, isn't the end of the world.

Classic is not as hard as we remember. Watch old Rag videos and it's hilarious how crappy we all were, and didn't even know it. Private servers have dove deep into the numbers of try-harding and now a Ret "Spelladin" can do dps that's not a meme at all. Power Shifting Druids are going to make some eyes go real wide when players see their rogue being out dps'd by the kitty.

This topic goes back and forth, and always will. If you play a "meme" then join a guild that's looking for a good time and doesn't give a rat's ass if they bring a Ret and a Boomie to a raid. I know I'd be far happier with a Ret on my team who's truly trying to be their best, then a mage who doesn't show up on time and half-asses their way to gear.

tl;dr - Outside of hardcore pushes, give "meme" specs a chance to prove themselves, they may be better than the lazy _____ in you raid.

Arithil - Warrior Tank
Hunter Survival
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Tauren
Warrior
1 year ago (Beta)
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While everyone is more informed and the meta is more refined I want to emphasize that this discrimination is not new. I had the privilege of being a hybrid back in the original vanilla and I was turned away from BRD groups because I didn't have a proper resurrection spell, and while I didn't spend much time as feral we did have one raiding as a filler pretty often and his presence was always met with groans of disapproval in private corners. My guild wasn't even very competitive.

This is not some emergent property of new-age sweaty poopsock meta lords; people have never liked spending hours of their time carrying inferior specs.

   Stfuppercut
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Orc
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1 year ago (Beta)
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Gensei wrote:
1 year ago
At the end of the day, what the “community” thinks doesn’t matter. It’s what guilds think, and specifically their leadership’s priorities.

Do I think people spend too much time dunking on the sub-optimal specs to the point it’s discouraging people from playing something they’d like? Yes.

Do I also think people too often say to follow your dreams and play whatever you want while ignoring the consequences of such a decision? Yes.

I think a lot of BS around bad specs or whatnot will fade within a few months. The only real BS is going to be people not letting a Ret paladin or whatever into their Scarlet Monastery run bc they think that it matters at level 38. But then you can spot these people and perhaps enlighten them or choose not to play with them. Individual guilds will have their own policies. If they are too ridiculous about it, you probably didn’t want to play with those people anyway.

Overall, I think it’s probably going to be fine. People who go too far in either direction will learn or you’ll just choose not to play with them.

I will never understand this. "your playing a sub optimal spec" mentality. I mean I get it if your guild is clearing MC in under 40 minutes. For top end guilds it makes sense. I don't however understand why your average band of monkeys cares. Your gonna be in MC for 4 hours anyway. How is having one or two non-perfect specs gonna effect that? It's not. Your guild isn't good enough for it to matter.

   Gensei
Shaman Enhancement
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1 year ago (Beta)
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fearthepib wrote:
1 year ago
I will never understand this. "your playing a sub optimal spec" mentality. I mean I get it if your guild is clearing MC in under 40 minutes. For top end guilds it makes sense. I don't however understand why your average band of monkeys cares. Your gonna be in MC for 4 hours anyway. How is having one or two non-perfect specs gonna effect that? It's not. Your guild isn't good enough for it to matter.
Essentially this. Like yeah, a raid full of ret paladins and boomkin might not be so hot, but that's not a realistic scenario. The high-performing classes will be widely played because, well, they're good. I just caveat it with one of those lines in my initial comment with the fact that if you're going to be rolling one of these specs you should be aware of the consequences. Yeah, follow your dreams, as long as you know what you're getting yourself into.

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US Whitemane
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Warlock
1 year ago (Beta)
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There's always someone who can pull off a class correctly, I promise you that there's going to be a lot of diversity!


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Winterspring
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Human
Warrior
1 year ago (Beta)
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Well, yes. There's no way you'll find a Protection/Retribution Paladin, Balance Druid, Enhancement Shaman and so on in any elite guild. However, will more casual guilds where leaders don't care about which class/spec you play exist? One hundred percent. I do encourage people to play exactly what they feel like playing, but don't expect to be greeted with a cake and balloons if you're applying for an elite guild as a Shadow Priest with half your talents in Holy.

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