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Stfuppercut wrote:
1 year ago
RedridgeGnoll wrote:
1 year ago
I have an entire library of Post-Classic ideas I have written. I would be happy to share them.
Please don't. Well... Maybe do... But not all at once. Spread them out every week or so, but I can not take them all at once. I need time to recover between the insanity.
Let's see a little every couple of days. Give us all something to do while we wait for launch day.

   Selexin
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Let me tell you a story:

In the first month of vanilla I left my guild because they were taking ages to level up and took things too slow for me. They had their first Ragnaros kill after BWL patch.

I founded a elitist kind of guild, but we had to take a free realm transfer because we could not get a good core for raiding. On the new server we were lucky because we were the first good guild, could collect all good players and eventually dominated the server, got to 12/15 naxx. On the other hand, we had plenty of times without anything to do, because we waited for new content.

My old guild still got 10/15 naxx. Sure they weren't server first or had the best player's. But they moved slow and steady and managed to come out over the MC / BWL struggling guild's by being casual.

I am sure you might heard of storys like that, and they all teach the same lesson: classic is about time invested and it's no matter when you invest that time. 10 days played in 14 days of nolifing will probably even give you less than the same 10 days over the course of 6 weeks.

People talk so much about min maxing that they forget this practical aspect: if you play 20-30 hours per week you need more than one toon to stay busy . The game was moving slow, and you can't force progression just by grinding close to burnout.
In 2 months of maximum tryhard speed raiding you won't get more than someone who invested the same time but over 6 months, because how lockouts work.

So TL:DR wow is about time invested, and in the end more aimed at people who play 15-25 hours per week. So no, I don't have any concerns about year two.

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Overthinking is bad for your health.

   Cletus Mythric
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RedridgeGnoll wrote:
1 year ago
When players reminisce on Classic WoW, they usually mention content from the first year of Classic. There seems to be a shortage of new content during the 2nd year of Classic. I am concerned that players who begin at launch, reach level 60, and progress through the early content will be disappointed post-Zul'Gurub. It seems like the content they did add was for hardcore raiders, which was such a small % of the population.
Speak for yourself. In Classic, you make your own content. It's not like retail WoW where the endless in-game drop downs tell you where to go and what to do and most of the content can be burned through in the first week. Most people will still be working towards certain gear, completing quests, and exploring in general while things like ZG and AQ drop. People who will be disappointed post-ZG are the same people who tend to sit in town and spam for groups to take them places. This is why I feel so many people (quite possibly of the younger generation) will flood streamer-heavy servers because they are so used to being guided through everything.
I had an active sub from Nov 2004 all the way till BC dropped. I never raided Naxx. I was never at a point where I felt bored or burned out in the 2nd year or near then end like I have for the past few expansions. Creativity, imagination, and the sheer amount of things there are to accomplish will take most people all the way through the 2nd year and beyond. If you don't believe that, then why have private servers been so successful for all these years without new content?

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Cletus wrote:
1 year ago
RedridgeGnoll wrote:
1 year ago
When players reminisce on Classic WoW, they usually mention content from the first year of Classic. There seems to be a shortage of new content during the 2nd year of Classic. I am concerned that players who begin at launch, reach level 60, and progress through the early content will be disappointed post-Zul'Gurub. It seems like the content they did add was for hardcore raiders, which was such a small % of the population.
Speak for yourself. In Classic, you make your own content. It's not like retail WoW where the endless in-game drop downs tell you where to go and what to do and most of the content can be burned through in the first week. Most people will still be working towards certain gear, completing quests, and exploring in general while things like ZG and AQ drop. People who will be disappointed post-ZG are the same people who tend to sit in town and spam for groups to take them places. This is why I feel so many people (quite possibly of the younger generation) will flood streamer-heavy servers because they are so used to being guided through everything.
I had an active sub from Nov 2004 all the way till BC dropped. I never raided Naxx. I was never at a point where I felt bored or burned out in the 2nd year or near then end like I have for the past few expansions. Creativity, imagination, and the sheer amount of things there are to accomplish will take most people all the way through the 2nd year and beyond. If you don't believe that, then why have private servers been so successful for all these years without new content?
Because private servers open new servers once AQ/Naxx are released so the playerbase can replay the first year of the game. Is is well known in the community.

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What do you think about doing something like Diablo 3's seasonal system? It could be brought to Classic a while after launch to serve as that fresh reset. The original classic servers could remain untouched, but a set of new seasonal servers could come online for a period of time. After another period of time, the season would end and all the seasonal characters would be merged back into the original servers and a new season could begin.

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RedridgeGnoll wrote:
1 year ago

Because private servers open new servers once AQ/Naxx are released so the playerbase can replay the first year of the game. Is is well known in the community.
You do know how to quote something without using the entire wall of text, yes? You quoted my entire post and only addressed the final sentence.
So, sure I will agree that many players enjoy a fresh Vanilla server. I'm sure everyone is just going to quit after the first year out of sheer boredom and discontent. Blizzard should probably just release all the content at once and maybe add a couple extra new zones and updated content also. Perhaps they could even throw in some new things to help players find things to do in-game as well as way to instantly form groups with people outside their current server. Additionally, I think it would be great to make different difficulties for raids and dungeons so that everyone can enjoy them! I'm willing to bet that would keep players around indefinitely. I guess we'll just have to wait and see though.

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RedridgeGnoll wrote:
1 year ago
couchatron wrote:
1 year ago
So you thought AQ20 was one of the most boring raids? I'm sorry you felt that way. Some of us rather enjoyed it.
The guy that designed AQ even said it was terrible.
They also famously said "You think you do, but you don't"

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Wow this totally relates to me.

I've done ZG on private servers a few times with a great guild but I felt like at this point I have been burnt out from the game and in need of a long break,
it doesn't help that the player-base keeps changing server though because like me they too were burnt out after a year. I haven't completed AQ or Naxx even though I have a hunter in lieutenant commander armour that I'm sure could.

This time around WoW classic is official and I WILL finish Naxxramas and AQ AND i will get https://classic.wowhead.com/item=13086/ ... frostsaber

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Classic isn't a short term F R E S H private server full of zoomers. Things are going to be very different from vanilla and very different from private servers. You will have a new meta and you will have an extremely varied playerbase from retail babies to grumpy old RP vanilla veterans.

You think you know how Classic will play out @RedridgeGnoll, but you don't.

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Selexin wrote:
1 year ago
You think you know how Classic will play out @RedridgeGnoll but you don't.
Having talked to him personally on discord, I am convinced he didn't ever play vanilla seriously. I believe he played BC and onwards, but his lack of understanding of the original game and his proposed changes show an extreme lack of understanding and foresight. Furthermore, many of his proposed changes have already been added to retail at various points of the games development which actually makes me question if he is even a serious fan that has followed the series or just a casual user. Not to be offensive or judgemental, I also do have serious questions about his mental stability, especially after reading several of his interactions here on the forums. Things just dont seem to click for him. I will say that he seems like a super passionate guy though.

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Stfuppercut wrote:
1 year ago
Selexin wrote:
1 year ago
You think you know how Classic will play out @RedridgeGnoll but you don't.
Having talked to him personally on discord, I am convinced he didn't ever play vanilla seriously. I believe he played BC and onwards, but his lack of understanding of the original game and his proposed changes show an extreme lack of understanding and foresight. Furthermore, many of his proposed changes have already been added to retail at various points of the games development which actually makes me question if he is even a serious fan that has followed the series or just a casual user. Not to be offensive or judgemental, I also do have serious questions about his mental stability, especially after reading several of his interactions here on the forums. Things just dont seem to click for him. I will say that he seems like a super passionate guy though.
Some of the things I say in Barrens Chat are totally off the rails at times. It is Barrens Chat afterall. I had the priviledge of being a part of World of Warcraft while it was in development. Due to my background in the mmorpg community, particularly the PvP community, Blizzard invited me to help with the game. It was apparent that World of Warcraft was largely going to be PvE-focused, since it was a successor in a sense to Everquest. This was back when WestfalI was the endgame content. I spent roughly a year offering feedback and opinions about what Blizzard was creating. This was a very different Blizzard than the one today. The developers back then would exchange emails and argue on the forums over the direction of the game with other players. I knew that World of Warcraft was going to be a huge success, perhaps even more so than the development team. Blizzard knew they had a superior and more accessible MMO product. They were right.

A lot of my time in Classic WoW was split between playing and offering feedback on the forums. That first year playing Classic WoW was one of the best gaming experiences I will ever have. However, I must admit that the beta test itself might have been better. The community was closer. The friends, enemies, and my guild <Nurfed> are memories I still carry. There was major guild rivalry during that beta test, and obviously there were no battlegrounds, so everything was settled in contested territory. I think Classic WoW is going to be a big success. However, I do believe there is a content drought during the second year of the game. I experienced this the first time around back in 2006. I was very critical at the time of the direction of the game, and ultimately quit during the AQ patch. I felt that it was being too "endgame focused," and that raiding was becoming too much of a priority. Understandbly, Blizzard was working on The Burning Crusade at the time, so all of their resources were poured into that effort. This shift towards endgame raiding was a huge critcism I directed at a few of the developers who played Everquest. I also played Everquest, but never partook in any endgame content, let alone raiding. Everquest was about the world and community, not max level monster killing. While having instanced raiding was a smart decision by Blizzard, placing overemphasis on raiding was a mistake, especially considering the first raid was added at the final hour of development.

I found out about Blizzard's future changes to the game while TBC was in development. I was outraged. I argued incessantly over the changes that Blizzard was proposing, and ruined whatever reptuation I had in the community. Blizzard was following a similar path that Everquest took. Everquest's first expansion took players to an ancient continent ruled by an alien race. There were new raids, a new level cap, and many max level progression systems. However, Everquest's expansion didn't nullify the old world like Outland did. The introduction of flying mounts and Outland shrunk the world substantially. Systems like the arena divided PvP and PvE players, and Warcraft's lore was sacrificed for shortsighted marketing reasons. I didn't play The Burning Crusade. I felt that Blizzard was betraying the spirit of World of Warcraft and mmorpg. It was a very sad day for me, because at that point, World of Warcraft was the only mmorpg of relevance. While many of my friends and even members of this forum were loving the expansion, I felt ostracized as the game I cared for had taken a dark path.

I have been advocating for the return of Classic WoW since the day of The Burning Crusade launch. There haven't been many members of the WoW community more persistent or argumentative than myself over what Blizzard had done to the game with the expansions. I was involved in the private server scene and active on Nostalrius in hopes of Blizzard eventually restoring the original game. I have longed for this day to finally happen, and on August 27, the efforts of so many will be materialized. I don't think Classic WoW was a perfect. There is so much I would change, but I am absolutely confident that it is a better game than The Burning Crusade.

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RedridgeGnoll wrote:
1 year ago
I had the priviledge of being a part of World of Warcraft while it was in development.
Apologies for being so blunt, but I doubt this. You'll have to understand that I only doubt this because you don't seem to have ideas that would be cohesive with the game, nor do you shed any valuable insight with your suggestions. It's not that this is entirely unrealistic but rather that you haven't demonstrated the capacity to be constructive or add anything valuable to the conversation. I cant imagine that your skillset would be valuable to a development team. If they wanted wild ideas that were pulled out of a hat by a completely uninformed person, they would probably just ask their kids for ideas when they got home after work.

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RedridgeGnoll wrote:
1 year ago
Some of the things I say in Barrens Chat are totally off the rails at times. It is Barrens Chat afterall.
I appreciate the passion and enthusiasm even if I disagree with your ideas man. You bring ideas to the table and are a level headed guy. Can't really ask for much more on a forum like this.

What would you have preferred the TBC expansion to do differently? How would they have added new content that didn't make the old world irrelevant?

Seems to me that adding new zones makes the old zones irrelevant pretty much no matter what. I'm struggling to think of how expansions could have added content differently. To me the expansions progressively made the game worse with "QOS improvements" and feature creep. But putting that crap aside and focusing on the zones and game world itself, I can't think of a way they could have added new territory without taking people away from the old stuff. I'm not suggesting it's impossible - I just can't think of anything.

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Stfuppercut wrote:
1 year ago
RedridgeGnoll wrote:
1 year ago
I had the priviledge of being a part of World of Warcraft while it was in development.
Apologies for being so blunt, but I doubt this.
I don't know if he meant he was on the development team working for blizzard... Sounds like he was just a beta tester, lol. This is technically 'being involved with development'. Technically everybody on this forum who was in the closed beta was part of WoW Classic development :lol:

@redridgegnoll, what exactly was your role in development that you're claiming?

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Pippina wrote:
1 year ago

I don't know if he meant he was on the development team working for blizzard... Sounds like he was just a beta tester, lol.
If that even lol. I gotta agree with @Stfuppercut and @Selexin on this. I don't think RedridgeTroll even played Vanilla.

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Pippina wrote:
1 year ago
redridgegnoll, what exactly was your role in development that you're claiming?
I've been asking this for quite awhile. I actually got quite a lot of pushback for giving him a hard time in the past despite his outlandish claims and crackpot ideas. I even received a bit of a talking to from the big guys. I feel as though at a certain point these kinds of people do a bit more harm to the conversation than good. I dont mind being the bad guy that calls them out either, regardless of the consequences. Im not trying to be intentionally abrasive but at a certain point someone needs to step in and correct this foolishness. Glad to see we still have some reasonable voices around that dont coddle this behavior.

edit: I will add that I am incredibly disappointed with the shear quantity of stolen valor in regards to Vanilla. I have not raided with, nor talked to a single person on private that was not a Naxx-super-warlord-high-beta-marshall-alpha-testing-developer during retail vanilla. Yet when I talk to these people one on one, they get exposed for bullshitting within 5 mins. This was no different with Redridgegnoll.

g0bledyg00k wrote:
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Blizzard had no experience developing MMORPGs back then, but they had the resources and personnel to create the best one. Vanilla was based on what are now considered "old school" MMORPGS. Ultima Online, Everquest, Dark Age of Camelot etc.. which were all released years prior to Vanilla launching. I have no idea what direct impact I might have had on Vanilla WoW, if any, but Blizzard certainly relied on the alpha/beta community for ideas and feedback. They had players like myself with more experience in the genre than much of their development team. Features like instanced vs. non-instanced dungeons/raids is something which was a contentious topic between the devs and community. Nowadays that seems ludicrous.

There came a point when Blizzard stopped listening to the "old school" MMORPG community. The one which helped shape Vanilla WoW. That is partly why I think we ended up with something like the Burning Crusade. The Burning Crusade was a success in many ways, and even made some improvements to the original game. However, it marked the end of Classic MMORPG design, and the beginning of the Blizzard MMORPG design. This new direction for MMORPGS is what has dominated the genre for the last decade if not more. Blizzard's mentality with The Burning Crusade was to implement systems that catered specifically to certain playstyles. All that ended up doing was fragment the community, and isolate players from eachother and the world. The same developers who brought you Vanilla WoW, also brought you flying mounts, dungeon finder, and horde paladins. How much of the original team really understood what made Vanilla special?

MMORPGS before WoW were primarly about the open world and server communities. It was about the journey, not the destination. Vanilla WoW honored that, but was also able to achieve a better balance between forgiving and unforgiving gameplay. I remember when I returned to WoW on WOTLK launch night. The game was unrecognizable. I rolled a cow deathknight in order to more fully immerse myself in the absurdity it had become. I felt what so many who were there during the early days of Vanilla. They massacred my boy. It turns out many of us were right all along, Vanilla WoW was always the best.

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Stfuppercut wrote:
1 year ago
edit: I will add that I am incredibly disappointed with the shear quantity of stolen valor in regards to Vanilla. I have not raided with, nor talked to a single person on private that was not a Naxx-super-warlord-high-beta-marshall-alpha-testing-developer during retail vanilla. Yet when I talk to these people one on one, they get exposed for bullshitting within 5 mins. This was no different with Redridgegnoll.
lol at Vanilla WoW stolen valor. It's stupid, but a good way to describe it.

Here's my valor:



~1700 hours played. I thought it was closer to 2,000 hours, lol. Only been in two raids during that 1700 hours, both molten core, carried both times. PvP rank of Master Sergeant, which I thought was higher, but I just checked and discovered it is only rank 4.. 1700 hours into the game and I never knew what rank # it was. In fact when I was still bothering to play retail I ran around with the Master Sergeant title because I thought it was higher rank than that :lol: Shows how much I cared about PvP rank.

So no, not everybody here was PVP Rank 40 and was farming Naxx in their sleep during Vanilla. At least I wasn't.

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Still no answer on his development experience... How he was a well respected and valued member on the vanilla WoW development team... Wonder why he keeps side-stepping that question?

g0bledyg00k wrote:
9 months ago
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Stfuppercut wrote:
1 year ago
Still no answer on his development experience... How he was a well respected and valued member on the vanilla WoW development team... Wonder why he keeps side-stepping that question?
He was a beta tester.

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Stfuppercut wrote:
1 year ago
Still no answer on his development experience... How he was a well respected and valued member on the vanilla WoW development team... Wonder why he keeps side-stepping that question?
I was a tester during an early version of the beta.

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RedridgeGnoll wrote:
1 year ago
I was a tester during an early version of the beta.
... Okay. That puts things in perspective. So that may or may not be true, but still doesnt really give you any credibility. You we'rent actually a part of development if we are being honest (assuming you actually did beta test - every interaction I have ever had with you indicates you havent even touched vanilla). I'd reword your "experience" when you allude to being a part of development. If your feedback during your beta testing was anything close to what we're seeing here, I doubt they spent much time reading your feedback. I also can see why you disagreed with the route the game began to go as you are looking to create an entirely different game.

g0bledyg00k wrote:
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RedridgeGnoll wrote:
1 year ago
I was a tester during an early version of the beta.
I was also a beta tester in the closed eu beta. Actually one of 2000 europeans, first wave.

I don't think we ( as beta testers ) were wildly influencing the game. Most of us were too mesmerized and loved everything blizzard did. We sure did some bug squaching, but the actual changes were mostly brought by blizzard themselves after long threads in us boards. And this was mostly QOL or class balance stuff.

That was a bit off topic, sorry.

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I don't get the appeal of trying to change/add or in your mind try to improve the game?

I mean why can't you just enjoy the game as it is....Classic's goal wasn't to improve Vanilla it was to bring back something that was lost that the previous community can't truly play. It is suppose to be a shrine of what the game used to be and how amazing it is, to experience vanilla a second time. Don't be concerned about Classic in year number 2, classic will be just fine, Its a long game.

When I want to play an old game I loved, I dont want to play the old game+ or old game expansion #34 or old game w/ #12 and #56 changes/updates

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