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RedridgeGnoll wrote:
2 weeks ago
Tec wrote:
2 weeks ago
RedridgeGnoll wrote:
2 weeks ago
Tec wrote:
2 weeks ago
Silithus never had anything good come from it and I think your idea would interfere with BGs and WPvP too much.
As it stands BGs and WPvP have their offering and it’s pretty well balanced in regard to time/reward and allows players to make a choice.
Silithus had terrible rewards and the mechanics were clunky.

Battlegrounds offer like 10x as much honor as doing World PvP. How can you say its balanced. In Classic, the queue times will be short due to Crossrealm, and you can also queue inside of Capital Cities. That is more like Retail than how it worked for most of Classic. The PvP community in Classic will be hugw, and I am concerned that Arathi Basin and WSG all day will not hold their interest long. We all know how unpopular 1.12 AV will be. WoW is an open world MMO, so why not have better open world PvP. I am not saying change battlegrounds, but offer another PvP alternative.
I love 1.12 AV and the reason I say WPvP is balanced is due to material gathering in addition to whatever honor you get.

It’s two approaches to rewards, different rewards but equally attractive.

I don’t think you should be worried about cross realm PvP, I believe it’s for the betterment of the PvP community as opposed to a negative.
The idea is to offer an alternative way to farm honor. Farming honor in World PvP will not be viable once Battlegrounds are released. This combines the mechanics of PvP loot and resource gathering into the open world zones. Instead of being forced to play Arathi Basin all day, what if you could PvP in 10 different zones and possibly earn comparable Honor. It is an open world MMO afterall. I appreciate your criticism, as the idea is flawed in some ways. I am trying to figure out why it might not work or be popular.
Like I said, in my opinion your idea discourage PvP in order to maximize honor gain without risk.

You gather resource and if you avoid combat you gain a lot of honor or you
Harvest and engage in combat and risk loosing everything and ‘wasted’ your time or you gain resources slightly faster than harvesting it yourself taking into account downtime and combat duration.

I see no upside to risking the harvest unless it’s a given easy victory because the risk is too high.
AV is not a risk like that and WPvP offer a lot more variety and a lot less of a ‘loss’ factor risk.

I see no upside to adding your idea.

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MeatLumps wrote:
2 weeks ago
RedridgeGnoll wrote:
2 weeks ago
There are times when one player might have more to lose than another. Let's say you just finished collecting 25 Lumber. That 25 lumber is taken from your inventory and added to your faction resource score. You don't have any lumber to lose at that point, so you may seek out an enemy to gank. You then gank somebody and loot 15 lumber off them. You would constantly be at risk of losing all of your resources.
What I am losing by killing the other person in this scenario is the time that I could spend picking up more resources to get more honor. There is no reason for me to kill that other faction player apart from the fun of it and some honor from the kill.

Youre right that I am not at risk of losing any resource I am carrying. The risk is that I lose the fight and then have wasted time I could have spent gathering resources.

If this system were implemented and I was trying to maximize my honor, i can tell you up front that I would focus entirely on gathering resources. Not on fighting.
Exactly. A death is too penalizing so you’re going to avoid it in order to maximize gathering and it if wasn’t It’d be too easy.

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Tec wrote:
2 weeks ago
RedridgeGnoll wrote:
2 weeks ago
Tec wrote:
2 weeks ago
RedridgeGnoll wrote:
2 weeks ago
Tec wrote:
2 weeks ago
Silithus never had anything good come from it and I think your idea would interfere with BGs and WPvP too much.
As it stands BGs and WPvP have their offering and it’s pretty well balanced in regard to time/reward and allows players to make a choice.
Silithus had terrible rewards and the mechanics were clunky.

Battlegrounds offer like 10x as much honor as doing World PvP. How can you say its balanced. In Classic, the queue times will be short due to Crossrealm, and you can also queue inside of Capital Cities. That is more like Retail than how it worked for most of Classic. The PvP community in Classic will be hugw, and I am concerned that Arathi Basin and WSG all day will not hold their interest long. We all know how unpopular 1.12 AV will be. WoW is an open world MMO, so why not have better open world PvP. I am not saying change battlegrounds, but offer another PvP alternative.
I love 1.12 AV and the reason I say WPvP is balanced is due to material gathering in addition to whatever honor you get.

It’s two approaches to rewards, different rewards but equally attractive.

I don’t think you should be worried about cross realm PvP, I believe it’s for the betterment of the PvP community as opposed to a negative.
The idea is to offer an alternative way to farm honor. Farming honor in World PvP will not be viable once Battlegrounds are released. This combines the mechanics of PvP loot and resource gathering into the open world zones. Instead of being forced to play Arathi Basin all day, what if you could PvP in 10 different zones and possibly earn comparable Honor. It is an open world MMO afterall. I appreciate your criticism, as the idea is flawed in some ways. I am trying to figure out why it might not work or be popular.
Like I said, in my opinion your idea discourage PvP in order to maximize honor gain without risk.

You gather resource and if you avoid combat you gain a lot of honor or you
Harvest and engage in combat and risk loosing everything and ‘wasted’ your time or you gain resources slightly faster than harvesting it yourself taking into account downtime and combat duration.

I see no upside to risking the harvest unless it’s a given easy victory because the risk is too high.
AV is not a risk like that and WPvP offer a lot more variety and a lot less of a ‘loss’ factor risk.

I see no upside to adding your idea.
Because once you reach 25 of a resource, it is automatically removed from your inventory and added to your faction score. If you just auto-turned in 25 Gold, then you wouldn't have that gold to lose, so engaging in PvP might be worthwhile. Once you start stockpiling more resources and get closer to 25, there would always be the risk of you being ganked and losing it all.

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Yeah but it’s safer to just keep gathering and not engaging in any combat for both parties.

You could engage in PvP once you turn in but if you die you lost time you otherwise would’ve gathered for and honestly, I think it would end up being super one sided with one faction or something claiming the zone for farm.

There’s just so much to balance in regards to this idea and I see it adding very little if any value to classic for this reason.

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Tec wrote:
2 weeks ago
Yeah but it’s safer to just keep gathering and not engaging in any combat for both parties.

You could engage in PvP once you turn in but if you die you lost time you otherwise would’ve gathered for and honestly, I think it would end up being super one sided with one faction or something claiming the zone for farm.

There’s just so much to balance in regards to this idea and I see it adding very little if any value to classic for this reason.
I realize the concern of potential faction imbalance. If on a less populated faction, you would have fewer allies to compete against for resource nodes. I am trying to envision how the action would playout. I think the underpopulated faction would still have participants, because of the bonus honor available.

You make some good arguments. I wonder how it would play out.

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RedridgeGnoll wrote:
2 weeks ago
Tec wrote:
2 weeks ago
Yeah but it’s safer to just keep gathering and not engaging in any combat for both parties.

You could engage in PvP once you turn in but if you die you lost time you otherwise would’ve gathered for and honestly, I think it would end up being super one sided with one faction or something claiming the zone for farm.

There’s just so much to balance in regards to this idea and I see it adding very little if any value to classic for this reason.
I realize the concern of potential faction imbalance. If on a less populated faction, you would have fewer allies to compete against for resource nodes. I am trying to envision how the action would playout. I think the underpopukated faction would still have participants, because of the bonus honor available.

You make some good arguments. I wonder how it would play out.
Did you play during the Darkshore airdrops? It would be like that for sure IMO.

One faction makes tons of raids to hold it down and the other gives up, especially on a unbalanced realm like most are, in addition to having no way to get your faction backup without cross realm technology active.

I’m really struggling to see a positive outcome for your idea in its current form.

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Tec wrote:
2 weeks ago
RedridgeGnoll wrote:
2 weeks ago
Tec wrote:
2 weeks ago
Yeah but it’s safer to just keep gathering and not engaging in any combat for both parties.

You could engage in PvP once you turn in but if you die you lost time you otherwise would’ve gathered for and honestly, I think it would end up being super one sided with one faction or something claiming the zone for farm.

There’s just so much to balance in regards to this idea and I see it adding very little if any value to classic for this reason.
I realize the concern of potential faction imbalance. If on a less populated faction, you would have fewer allies to compete against for resource nodes. I am trying to envision how the action would playout. I think the underpopukated faction would still have participants, because of the bonus honor available.

You make some good arguments. I wonder how it would play out.
Did you play during the Darkshore airdrops? It would be like that for sure IMO.

One faction makes tons of raids to hold it down and the other gives up, especially on a unbalanced realm like most are, in addition to having no way to get your faction backup without cross realm technology active.

I’m really struggling to see a positive outcome for your idea in its current form.
What were the Darkshore airdrops? I heard about that. I mean the resource nodes would randomly spawn all over the zones. However, it is true that some pvp servers might be 80% Horde and 20% Alliance in those zones. There wouldn't really be much of a reason to zerg, because the resources would be so spread out. How do you incentivize the Alliance to enter the battlezone if they are outnumbered? Do you give them bonus honor for turnins? Or change the resource nodes. I am thinking about this.

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RedridgeGnoll wrote:
2 weeks ago
Tec wrote:
2 weeks ago
RedridgeGnoll wrote:
2 weeks ago
Tec wrote:
2 weeks ago
Yeah but it’s safer to just keep gathering and not engaging in any combat for both parties.

You could engage in PvP once you turn in but if you die you lost time you otherwise would’ve gathered for and honestly, I think it would end up being super one sided with one faction or something claiming the zone for farm.

There’s just so much to balance in regards to this idea and I see it adding very little if any value to classic for this reason.
I realize the concern of potential faction imbalance. If on a less populated faction, you would have fewer allies to compete against for resource nodes. I am trying to envision how the action would playout. I think the underpopukated faction would still have participants, because of the bonus honor available.

You make some good arguments. I wonder how it would play out.
Did you play during the Darkshore airdrops? It would be like that for sure IMO.

One faction makes tons of raids to hold it down and the other gives up, especially on a unbalanced realm like most are, in addition to having no way to get your faction backup without cross realm technology active.

I’m really struggling to see a positive outcome for your idea in its current form.
What were the Darkshore airdrops? I heard about that. I mean the resource nodes would randomly spawn all over the zones. However, it is true that some pvp servers might be 80% Horde and 20% Alliance in those zones. How do you incentivize the Alliance to enter the battlezone if they are outnumbered? Do you give them bonus honor for turnins? Or change the resource nodes. I am thinking about this.
Bounty Hunter
When you enter a War Mode enabled zone, you will start off with Soldier of the Alliance/ Soldier of the Horde, and killing opposite faction members that grant honor will give you 6 additional honor. If you manage to kill 10 members of the opposite faction without dying, you will be promoted to Alliance Assassin/ Horde Assassin and gain 15% increased damage and healing until you leave the zone or die.

If you stay further and kill more members of the opposite faction, you might become Bounty Hunted. While in this state, your location will be marked on the maps of every member of the opposite faction in the zone with War Mode turned on, and you're unable to mount (you can, however, mount with someone who is riding a two-seater mount). Killing a player that has a bounty placed on its head will grant the person who killed the bounty 50 Conquest points, and the bounty will also drop a bag on the floor that contains Honor points and PvP gear.
Image

Air Supply Drops spawn roughly every 20 minutes, at the northern part of the zone, and fly towards the border with Ashenvale. The planes that brings the supply drops is faster than a mastered epic flight mount, so you're unable to keep up with it, but it makes a very loud engine sound to announce its coming.

Those are contested just like the chest in the Gurubashi Arena, with a long open time. The Darkshore Version of the Air Supply Drops is dropping Darkshore World Quest gear, with a chance to titanforge.

A landed crate
Image
A claimed crate (Alliance)
Image

Now what happened here is one faction would control a zone with multiple raids and the other was either instantly killed or just stayed away from the area and looking for a shard with their faction in control, now obviously there is no sharding like this and cross realm but it would end the same on a unbalanced realm and further push people on the other faction away from the zone or even the realm since it’s a sub par realm to be in, in order to be most effective.

I don’t know how you could fix that with your idea, I guess you have to figure out a system for it or add cross realm or limit the amount of players able to enter the zone which would make entirely other issues.

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Tec wrote:
2 weeks ago
RedridgeGnoll wrote:
2 weeks ago
Tec wrote:
2 weeks ago
RedridgeGnoll wrote:
2 weeks ago
Tec wrote:
2 weeks ago
Yeah but it’s safer to just keep gathering and not engaging in any combat for both parties.

You could engage in PvP once you turn in but if you die you lost time you otherwise would’ve gathered for and honestly, I think it would end up being super one sided with one faction or something claiming the zone for farm.

There’s just so much to balance in regards to this idea and I see it adding very little if any value to classic for this reason.
I realize the concern of potential faction imbalance. If on a less populated faction, you would have fewer allies to compete against for resource nodes. I am trying to envision how the action would playout. I think the underpopukated faction would still have participants, because of the bonus honor available.

You make some good arguments. I wonder how it would play out.
Did you play during the Darkshore airdrops? It would be like that for sure IMO.

One faction makes tons of raids to hold it down and the other gives up, especially on a unbalanced realm like most are, in addition to having no way to get your faction backup without cross realm technology active.

I’m really struggling to see a positive outcome for your idea in its current form.
What were the Darkshore airdrops? I heard about that. I mean the resource nodes would randomly spawn all over the zones. However, it is true that some pvp servers might be 80% Horde and 20% Alliance in those zones. How do you incentivize the Alliance to enter the battlezone if they are outnumbered? Do you give them bonus honor for turnins? Or change the resource nodes. I am thinking about this.
Bounty Hunter
When you enter a War Mode enabled zone, you will start off with Soldier of the Alliance/ Soldier of the Horde, and killing opposite faction members that grant honor will give you 6 additional honor. If you manage to kill 10 members of the opposite faction without dying, you will be promoted to Alliance Assassin/ Horde Assassin and gain 15% increased damage and healing until you leave the zone or die.

If you stay further and kill more members of the opposite faction, you might become Bounty Hunted. While in this state, your location will be marked on the maps of every member of the opposite faction in the zone with War Mode turned on, and you're unable to mount (you can, however, mount with someone who is riding a two-seater mount). Killing a player that has a bounty placed on its head will grant the person who killed the bounty 50 Conquest points, and the bounty will also drop a bag on the floor that contains Honor points and PvP gear.
Image

Air Supply Drops spawn roughly every 20 minutes, at the northern part of the zone, and fly towards the border with Ashenvale. The planes that brings the supply drops is faster than a mastered epic flight mount, so you're unable to keep up with it, but it makes a very loud engine sound to announce its coming.

Those are contested just like the chest in the Gurubashi Arena, with a long open time. The Darkshore Version of the Air Supply Drops is dropping Darkshore World Quest gear, with a chance to titanforge.

A landed crate
Image
A claimed crate (Alliance)
Image

Now what happened here is one faction would control a zone with multiple raids and the other was either instantly killed or just stayed away from the area and looking for a shard with their faction in control, now obviously there is no sharding like this and cross realm but it would end the same on a unbalanced realm and further push people on the other faction away from the zone or even the realm since it’s a sub par realm to be in, in order to be most effective.

I don’t know how you could fix that with your idea, I guess you have to figure out a system for it or add cross realm or limit the amount of players able to enter the zone which would make entirely other issues.
Thank you for that BFA tidbit. I can see how problematic those Airship drops would be. Having only a few chests in open locations would be a total zergfest controlled by the dominant faction. If there were 100 of those chests spread across Darkshore, would players be as likely to zerg? Why would you when you would have to share the reward with your raid group?

Back to the Battlezone idea. Let's say there are 80 Horde and 20 Alliance in Winterspring doing the battle. I would make it so that the Alliance receive more honor per turn-in than the Horde, due to the population imbalance. Horde players will also be competing against eachother for resources, so why gangup and zerg the Alliance, when it is likely more efficient to roam solo and gather resources. Splitting the players up into small group sizes is the whole point of this system. It would give a less populated faction more of a competitive chance as well.

The spawn rates, honor rewards, and other factors would likely need to be adjusted based on the population of each faction in the battlezonw. Obviously, you can't make the zone crossrealm.

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Not sure I like the idea of a faction working against each other internally. I think it would promote griefing and such and cause a toxic environment.

I don’t know.

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Tec wrote:
2 weeks ago
Not sure I like the idea of a faction working against each other internally. I think it would promote griefing and such and cause a toxic environment.

I don’t know.
You wouldn't be working against your own faction, but you would be incentivized to split up and roam to gather resources. The faction score would just give a zone-wide buff when the battle ends. The honor rewards would be based on individual contributions. This whole thing needs tweaking, since something about it seems off.

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No.

Furthermore... No.

In conclusion, No.

I appreciate the discussion and the creativity that goes into something like this but as I stated earlier... Classic should remain... well, Classic.

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ejangle wrote:
2 weeks ago
No.

Furthermore... No.

In conclusion, No.

I appreciate the discussion and the creativity that goes into something like this but as I stated earlier... Classic should remain... well, Classic.
#NoChanges :biggrin:

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ejangle wrote:
2 weeks ago
No.

Furthermore... No.

In conclusion, No.

I appreciate the discussion and the creativity that goes into something like this but as I stated earlier... Classic should remain... well, Classic.
How would this not be awesome though? Give players another way to farm honor. Have resources they can collect around a map, but also make them drop when killed in PvP. It brings more players out of the Capital Cities and away from 24/7 BG queue spamming.

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There has been a recent development. Apparently, in 1.12 The Silithyst Must Flow in Silithus gave 200 honor per turn in. That seems like a lot, so then why wasn't collecting these Silithyst crystals more popular, if the honor reward was pretty high?

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RedridgeGnoll wrote:
2 weeks ago
How would this not be awesome though? Give players another way to farm honor. Have resources they can collect around a map, but also make them drop when killed in PvP. It brings more players out of the Capital Cities and away from 24/7 BG queue spamming.
Because it has been done. We have seen the result of this exact type of gameplay. It does not work. If you had actually played warhammer or played all of WoW up to and including BFA, or if you had actual experience working on vanilla wow (as you have eluded to in the past) you would be able to use your critical thinking to realize that this is a poor idea. You arent moving the ball forward in the conversation... You arent coming up with new ideas. You are taking ideas that are over a decade old and regurgitating a subtle variance to the original idea.

I've already went over this with you before. You want more world PvP. Your ideas are ALL related to increasing world PvP. What you dont realize, is that each of your ideas have been implemented previously in a similar variant and have failed to work... I'll state this again. HONOR PER HOUR. If you want more world PvP, adjust the honor that world kills give and thus players will be incentivized to farm World PvP instead of battlegrounds. I am not saying I agree with you, because I don't, but if you want MORE world PvP, simply adjust the reward from world PvP. You dont need boats, and player housing and air drops and PvP zones on timers and treasure chests... None of those terrible ideas are necessary. Just adjust the reward from PvP to favor farming world PvP and players will farm World PvP. This will come with a host of other issues, but this is the outcome you want. Players will be less interested in BG's and will spend all of their time farming honor in the world.

I am a PvPer. I love PvP. I made it to rank 13 in retail vanilla. Vanilla is a PvE game with PvP sprinkled in. As much as I love PvP, the game went to shit when PvP became the focal point of the game. If you want a PvP focused game, you do not want Classic. It is not a PvP focused game. There are elements of PvP that are used to enhance the overall experience and to reinforce the lore that glues the world together, but this game is a PvE game.
RedridgeGnoll wrote:
2 weeks ago
There has been a recent development. Apparently, in 1.12 The Silithyst Must Flow in Silithus gave 200 honor per turn in. That seems like a lot, so then why wasn't collecting these Silithyst crystals more popular, if the honor reward was pretty high?
Because NO variation of this system has ever stuck! Ever. Ever. Ever. It does not work. Your idea is not new. It has been done.

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Stfuppercut wrote:
2 weeks ago
RedridgeGnoll wrote:
2 weeks ago
How would this not be awesome though? Give players another way to farm honor. Have resources they can collect around a map, but also make them drop when killed in PvP. It brings more players out of the Capital Cities and away from 24/7 BG queue spamming.
Because it has been done. We have seen the result of this exact type of gameplay. It does not work. If you had actually played warhammer or played all of WoW up to and including BFA, or if you had actual experience working on vanilla wow (as you have eluded to in the past) you would be able to use your critical thinking to realize that this is a poor idea. You arent moving the ball forward in the conversation... You arent coming up with new ideas. You are taking ideas that are over a decade old and regurgitating a subtle variance to the original idea.

I've already went over this with you before. You want more world PvP. Your ideas are ALL related to increasing world PvP. What you dont realize, is that each of your ideas have been implemented previously in a similar variant and have failed to work... I'll state this again. HONOR PER HOUR. If you want more world PvP, adjust the honor that world kills give and thus players will be incentivized to farm World PvP instead of battlegrounds. I am not saying I agree with you, because I don't, but if you want MORE world PvP, simply adjust the reward from world PvP. You dont need boats, and player housing and air drops and PvP zones on timers and treasure chests... None of those terrible ideas are necessary. Just adjust the reward from PvP to favor farming world PvP and players will farm World PvP. This will come with a host of other issues, but this is the outcome you want. Players will be less interested in BG's and will spend all of their time farming honor in the world.

I am a PvPer. I love PvP. I made it to rank 13 in retail vanilla. Vanilla is a PvE game with PvP sprinkled in. As much as I love PvP, the game went to shit when PvP became the focal point of the game. If you want a PvP focused game, you do not want Classic. It is not a PvP focused game. There are elements of PvP that are used to enhance the overall experience and to reinforce the lore that glues the world together, but this game is a PvE game.
RedridgeGnoll wrote:
2 weeks ago
There has been a recent development. Apparently, in 1.12 The Silithyst Must Flow in Silithus gave 200 honor per turn in. That seems like a lot, so then why wasn't collecting these Silithyst crystals more popular, if the honor reward was pretty high?
Because NO variation of this system has ever stuck! Ever. Ever. Ever. It does not work. Your idea is not new. It has been done.
I agree that Blizzard changing the focus to Arena and ratings was a bad idea. There are simply better games out there that do that kind of thing. Yes, the honor rewards in World PvP should be made way higher, but you still need reasons for players to populate the zones. The issue is creating quality World PvP. Part of the reason it never works is because it devolves into activities like zerging or flightmaster camping. Those behaviors are not healthy for World PvP or the game. You want players roaming entire zones and splitting up. The purpose being to create mostly small scale fights..

The only time this resource concept existed was with The Silithyst Must Flow in Silithus. It is fairly similar to the idea suggested in the OP. Silithyst geysers could be looted in the zone, and players would turn in the Silithyst for a 200 honor reward. I think that this idea had promise, but could have been improved upon.

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Players will take the path of least resistance. Honor per hour. Your idea would encourage players to run right by each other. The fact that you can’t realize that shows that you have no foresight. Every effort Blizz has made to create world conflict has been a terrible implementation. This is not a PvP game and it does not need to be transformed into a PvP game. You don’t want Classic. You want some awful mutated version of the game that would appeal to a very small portion of the user-base. You’re asking for specific critiques but that is impossible because no part of this idea is salvageable. We have already seen variations be implemented by Blizz and in other MMOs and it always fails. Why would we advocate for adding a failed system to Classic?

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Stfuppercut wrote:
2 weeks ago
Players will take the path of least resistance. Honor per hour. Your idea would encourage players to run right by each other. The fact that you can’t realize that shows that you have no foresight. Every effort Blizz has made to create world conflict has been a terrible implementation. This is not a PvP game and it does not need to be transformed into a PvP game. You don’t want Classic. You want some awful mutated version of the game that would appeal to a very small portion of the user-base. You’re asking for specific critiques but that is impossible because no part of this idea is salvageable. We have already seen variations be implemented by Blizz and in other MMOs and it always fails. Why would we advocate for adding a failed system to Classic?
I agree that Blizzard's World PvP implementations were failures. However, the Silithus one actually had decent rewards and potential. I read that on Kronos a lot of players were farming Silithyst Geysers instead of doing Battlegrounds. It became so popular on Kronos that the developers nerfed the Honor gain from 200 to 19 or whatever it currently is on retail. This thread details the drama https://forum.twinstar.cz/threads/silit ... ve.100845/

Back during Vanilla, I do not think many players were aware of the potential honor gains available in silithus. It was 200 honor for 1 turn-in. I am critical of how the system worked. You could only carry one resource at a time, and they would often spawn mear the turn-in location. I realize that ignoring PvP and just collecting the geysers one by one was the best strategy. That system was flawed for that reason. This video shows the Silithus objective:


You could only collect one geyser at a time, and it seemed like the best strategy was to collect the geyser and run it back to your base camp. Why gank another player and loot the geyser off them, when you instead can just find your own geyser?
This video sort of demonstrates that.

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If Silithus is as game breaking as you say it is, we sure don’t need more honor versions and hopefully it’ll get rained in by Blizzard.

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Tec wrote:
2 weeks ago
If Silithus is as game breaking as you say it is, we sure don’t need more honor versions and hopefully it’ll get rained in by Blizzard.
#nochanges :lol:

The Silithyst resource objective that existed in 1.12 is pretty similar to the one I detailed in the OP. This was in Classic. My question is, what improvements could have been made to the one that existed in Classic?

The way it worked was that geysers would spawn around Silithus, and there were was a Horde and Alliance base where you could turn in a collected geyser. Players could only carry one geyser at a time. From what I understand, because you could only carry one geyser at a time, it wasn't really worthwhile to gank an enemy, because you couldn't carry more than one anyway. If you already had a geyser, then you wouldn't even be able to loot a second one off of another player.

Therefore, the optimal strategy probably would have been to ignore other players and just run the geysers back to base camp one by one. I can see how this could be problematic, especially if there were too many geysers spawning. What would be a better solution then? Make it so that players must collect 5 geysers in order to turn them in. This would require more roaming, and give players potentially more of an incentive to gank and loot others. You could collect 1 geyser, then gank and loot 5 off of another player bringing your total now to 6. Raising the turn-in requirement might have been a solution.

What if the geysers were simply harder to locate and required more roaming? If there were fewer geysers to comeby, then perhaps this would incentivize more players to engage in PvP. I am concerned about the base camp turn-in locations though. What would prevent enemy players from just camping outside a basecamp?

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#somechanges :mrgreen:

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Stfuppercut wrote:
2 weeks ago
Players will take the path of least resistance. Honor per hour. Your idea would encourage players to run right by each other. The fact that you can’t realize that shows that you have no foresight. Every effort Blizz has made to create world conflict has been a terrible implementation. This is not a PvP game and it does not need to be transformed into a PvP game. You don’t want Classic. You want some awful mutated version of the game that would appeal to a very small portion of the user-base. You’re asking for specific critiques but that is impossible because no part of this idea is salvageable. We have already seen variations be implemented by Blizz and in other MMOs and it always fails. Why would we advocate for adding a failed system to Classic?
Why would players run past eachother and ignore one another? I understand why that might have been the case with The Silithyst Must Flow, because you were limited to carrying one resource at a time. Also, if you watch the video you can see that the geysers spawn within 1 minute of walking distance to the camps. That is an issue. If players could carry many resources at once, and it was required that you needed a certain amount in order to complete a turn-in, then why would ganking not happen? Let's say you need 10 of a resource in order to complete the turn-in. You would roam around collecting it one by one until you've collected a total of 3 resources. Wouldn't killing other players be worthwhile, since they might be carrying 7 resources which would get you to 10?

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Since WoW classic won't be a remaster or updated game, I don't think they'd implement big changes like this. Does that mean that what you've put forward here is a bad idea? No, I don't think so. I still have some hope they'll implement some stuff that doesn't change the old stuff, for instance unused vanilla zones like Hyjal. No reason they couldn't try out stuff like this there!

I think the main reason world based objective pvp zones don't work super well has one main cause.

Zone Population Falloff:
As people level they encounter an area. Let's take the BC Hellfire Peninsula towers. I always thought it was a cool idea, bases that could be capped in the middle of a zone, constantly under siege or being stealthily stolen.
The problem is this, as people level up they don't have enough of an incentive to stay there. Honor can be gotten efficiently/enjoyably in other ways or people that don't like pvp in the first place try to find another place to level (which can be a pain/impossible depending on the expansion).

The solution is rather drastic. You either make the rewards worthwhile so that high level players continue having a reason to repeat that content, or make it so in that zone your level gets lowered. The first solution means any low levels organically progressing through a zone are going to get completely steamrolled by high level players farming the good gear. The second solution is a drastic departure from the game design tenets of Classic.

Add to this concept the idea that as expansions get released a whole area quickly becomes an obstacle to overcome rather than a game mode to repeat, and areas like Hellfire Peninsula quickly become a drag on time the developers have to make things. For this kind of zone to be worth it, it has to stay competitive with endgame content to consistently have the population it needs to remain enjoyable.

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RedridgeGnoll wrote:
2 weeks ago

Therefore, the optimal strategy probably would have been to ignore other players and just run the geysers back to base camp one by one. I can see how this could be problematic, especially if there were too many geysers spawning. What would be a better solution then?
"I can see how this would be problematic and how my idea is just another repeat, but if I can just continue this thought for a moment..." Oh my...

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