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For those who intend to play Classic casually (I'll define that that as 5-10 hours per week with inconsistent availability/playtime) how would you rank the viability of each class with easily attainable gear (eg. engineering, quest rewards, 5-mans, pvp rewards)?

Ultimately, I'll be choosing the class I enjoy playing the most, but I do derive a certain amount of enjoyment in being competitive/viable in PVP. I'm not looking for something easy... far from it. I'd absolutely play a class with a high skill cap or learning curve, where I get wrecked until I learn to play, as long as the determining factor is primarily skill and ingenuity, rather than gear.

I played a Warrior in Vanilla and loved the class but I also had time to progression raid and roll with premades 2-3 hours per night during the week and 4-6+ hours (sometimes more) on holidays and weekends. That is not the case anymore and even if it were, I think I'd like to try something different this time around.

I brought this topic up in another thread, which prompted me to do some additional research on my own. That search took me to several different Reddit posts, some of which had completely conflicting information. Perhaps that will be the case here as well but I thought I'd throw it out there for my own selfish interests, as well as others in the growing community who have the same question.

If you have an answer/opinion (and the time) please explain your rationale. Thanks in advance and have an awesome night everyone... looking forward to this discussion.

Cheers.

TLDR: What is the least gear dependent class for PVP and why?

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Quoting responses to this topic in my other thread for the benefit of anyone else who is interested.

Lendryn wrote:
3 weeks ago
ejangle wrote:
3 weeks ago
I'd love to hear your thoughts/suggestions if there are other classes that fit into the above criteria better. Warlock is intriguing too but that seems like it would be more gear dependent than mage.
It is, but I've heard the rank 10 gear is good enough. Until then you're a free meal to any melee class — much of your style involves face-tanking while casting Fear and that requires a ton of stamina to pull off. Lucky Hardiness procs might change that.

Hunter is a great choice — very easy and gratifying in both BGs and wPvP, perfectly viable albeit niche in raids. This was my original plan but class shuffling among my friends and the leeway mechanic are making me second-guess myself. Also there's a massive number of hunter bugs still plaguing the beta and I'd like to see them sorted out before getting invested in the idea.

Mage was my 2nd character and I had a great time through vanilla and TBC. You were right to think of it first given those criteria, I don't think you can go wrong. Of the kiting classes I'd guess they're the least affected by leeway since they have so many roots and quick distance with blink, and on the PvE side you'll be more desirable to dungeons and raids than other ranged DPS classes.

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and again... quoted from my other thread.

Stfuppercut wrote:
3 weeks ago
ejangle wrote:
3 weeks ago
I may have to check out Retro wow too... I'm stuck at the moment trying to decide on which class I want to play as my main.

I played a warrior in Vanilla and had a blast but I wanted to switch it up this time around and I've always been intrigued by mages so I thought I'd give that a go, especially since that seems like a class that isn't as gear dependent. That aspect is important to me this time around as I'm not sure if I'll have a bunch of time to raid so I'd like to have a class that will be viable in PVE and more importantly PVP with gear that doesn't require raiding to attain.

I'd love to hear your thoughts/suggestions if there are other classes that fit into the above criteria better. Warlock is intriguing too but that seems like it would be more gear dependent than mage.

Cheers.
Raiding takes WAY less time than grinding rank. I mean... MC is going to take casual guilds less than 2 hours to clear. Once per week. Casual guilds typically dont do Ony on reset and simply stack it with their MC night. We have no idea how long phases are, but your raid week will be pretty laid back for a very long time. Most guilds will probably add BWL to their MC night to be honest... Some will put it on a 2nd raid day during progression? Overall, you can raid log and it only takes about 2-5 hours per week to raid. Grinding to rank 10, will take FAR more time.

If I had a limited amount of time to play each week, I would PvE to collect gear up to and including BWL and then I would gquit and turn into a solo queue BG baddie. Class is less important to be honest. Just dont play anything meme so that it will be easy to secure a raid spot.

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Hunter. Hunter will be the best class for PvP without gear. This is mostly due to the incredible amount of throughput that can be generated by a beast master pet. This is also why hunters dominate every other class while leveling from 10(when they get their pet)-60. This is untrue at twink breakpoints, but for the average player leveling with average gear, this will be the case. A hunter popping bestial wrath combined with his auto shot and pet dps for spell pushback, will simply create too much value to overcome. In most cases the pet with bestial wrath is more than enough to decimate your opponent. This is not to say that hunters cant be beaten by a knowledgeable player, but generally speaking a hunter will generate the most throughput without any gear.

I will add that hunters continue to provide value at 60 in PvP without gear with viper sting and trap cc/ peeling. A hunter doesnt need to do damage to provide value. His viper sting (arguably the single best pvp ability ingame from a value perspective) and proper team assistance will make him a HUGE nuisance for players to deal with.

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@Stfuppercut thanks... I appreciate the info. What are your thoughts on Shadow Priest... Rumor has it, they "melt faces" but I'm not sure if that is pre 1.12 and I'm not sure how gear dependent the spec is.

Cheers.

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ejangle wrote:
3 weeks ago
@Stfuppercut thanks... I appreciate the info. What are your thoughts on Shadow Priest... Rumor has it, they "melt faces" but I'm not sure if that is pre 1.12 and I'm not sure how gear dependent the spec is.

Cheers.
Having played a shadow priest in retail vanilla to rank 13, I had a ton of experience with this class. That experience has not aged well as I have not replayed that class in well over a decade. From my anecdotal experience playing the class during retail, it was VERY difficult to find a place in a guild as shadow. Everyone in both PvE and PvP would have appreciated me playing as a holy or shadow holy hybrid spec more. Given this reality, I spent a lot of time respeccing to appease those around me. In hindsight I probably would have offered more value consistently to my PvE and PvP teams as an alternate build. From a gameplay perspective I was constantly oom. My capacity to take 1v1 / 1v2 fights was rather high, but I spent A LOT of time oom. If you are looking for a great world pvp or duel class, shadowpriest would definitely be high on the list. If you are looking for a class that you can gear and provide value to your comrades, I would opt to play something else.

Having played other classes and having a larger pool of knowledge to base my decisions on, I could never play this spec now. I have played warlock and mage at a high level, and I would not be able to deny the superior impact of playing one of these classes on an organized team. Shadow has its place and it is well suited for some circumstances (both in raiding and PvP), in general the spec likely would not suit most players and will not be desired by most teams. To be clear, regardless of what gear you have on an spriest it will always be the victim of certain shortcomings that are inherently built into the class. For example, psychic scream uses 15% of base mana. Mana will always be an issue for a shadow priest regardless of gear and getting gear as a shadow priest will be harder than either mage or warlock because you are less desirable.

INB4 shadow priests begin to list their niche utility and purpose.

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I would say Hunter. Easy to gear up as well as the least gear dependant. Easy to play on casual level but with high skill ceiling. Fast to level and variety of opportunities for farming. Imo enjoyable rotations. Fun gameplay overall.

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ejangle wrote:
3 weeks ago
Quoting responses to this topic in my other thread for the benefit of anyone else who is interested.
Lendryn wrote:
3 weeks ago
ejangle wrote:
3 weeks ago
I'd love to hear your thoughts/suggestions if there are other classes that fit into the above criteria better. Warlock is intriguing too but that seems like it would be more gear dependent than mage.
Hunter is a great choice — very easy and gratifying in both BGs and wPvP, perfectly viable albeit niche in raids. This was my original plan but class shuffling among my friends and the leeway mechanic are making me second-guess myself. Also there's a massive number of hunter bugs still plaguing the beta and I'd like to see them sorted out before getting invested in the idea.
The state of hunters is keeping me locked on maining priest, but if they fix hunters I will have a very hard debate on what to main first... No matter what I will lvl both classes, but it will probably take me atleast a year before I have 2 lv60s considering the time investment that will be put into the main character..

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Yesterday two of the big hunter pet bugs were squashed (passive pet bug and switching enemies in combat bug). These were the two that drove me nuts during the stress test, so hunters are headed in a good direction.

I also want to add that if everyone doesn't have a 60 hunter by phase 3 to take advantage of the best farming class with a super-easy-to-get AV quest X-bow https://classic.wowhead.com/item=19107/bloodseeker, what are you even doing?

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Hunter aside, frost mage (with engineering) can go a long way with average gear.

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Isn't it Rogue?

World of RogueCraft, where he was taking out people some R14 characters with no gear and a starter dagger.
Yeah he used all his cool downs and engineering, first aid, but doesn't everyone else?

For PVP, I think Rogue, yeah you can be killed easily, but you can pick your battles and can usually get out of any sticky situation.
Yeah they get better with gear but everyone else does in PVP, if it isnt to make you hit harder it helps to absorb hits yourself (Stamina).

Rogue and mages have the best control and ways to avoid damage the most in pvp.
Rogues dont need much to be good in pvp, they just need to use there abilities to control there victims.

I would also say Hunter and Warlock are close because of their pets, mostly Hunter cause there pets are dicks....plain and simple lol

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Latsiv wrote:
3 weeks ago
Yesterday two of the big hunter pet bugs were squashed (passive pet bug and switching enemies in combat bug). These were the two that drove me nuts during the stress test, so hunters are headed in a good direction.

I also want to add that if everyone doesn't have a 60 hunter by phase 3 to take advantage of the best farming class with a super-easy-to-get AV quest X-bow https://classic.wowhead.com/item=19107/bloodseeker, what are you even doing?
Maybe doin smthin else than obsessing over video game? :S Dunno

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Most helpfull quote ever. Plz refrain from further feeding the troll.

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I wanted to suggest Mage first, because they are easy to learn, have high impact and specc is more important than gear (you want improved CS and Ice Barrier or Blast Wave).

But Hunters are more natural for your needs, especially since PVP is a endgame for hunter's, where you actually shine bright:
You can CC, pop a nasty and safe aoe slow, interrupt two targets at once at flag's, and it's very difficult to jump you with stealth. In addition you can gear quite well just by doing pvp.

Last but not least: while rogues do need some gear for successful PVP you can gear up quite well just by doing PVP.

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Relik wrote:
3 weeks ago
Hunter aside, frost mage (with engineering) can go a long way with average gear.
Yeah, I've watched the Vurtne videos and have always wanted to try mage, especially having played warrior previously and been wrecked by good mages back in Vanilla (Handiman and Kajimoto were two on my server in Vanilla)

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Nyxt wrote:
3 weeks ago
Isn't it Rogue?

World of RogueCraft, where he was taking out people some R14 characters with no gear and a starter dagger.
Yeah he used all his cool downs and engineering, first aid, but doesn't everyone else?

For PVP, I think Rogue, yeah you can be killed easily, but you can pick your battles and can usually get out of any sticky situation.
Yeah they get better with gear but everyone else does in PVP, if it isnt to make you hit harder it helps to absorb hits yourself (Stamina).

Rogue and mages have the best control and ways to avoid damage the most in pvp.
Rogues dont need much to be good in pvp, they just need to use there abilities to control there victims.

I would also say Hunter and Warlock are close because of their pets, mostly Hunter cause there pets are dicks....plain and simple lol
I think the rogue mechanics that were leveraged in that video were changed by 1.12.

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FTHforever wrote:
3 weeks ago
I wanted to suggest Mage first, because they are easy to learn, have high impact and specc is more important than gear (you want improved CS and Ice Barrier or Blast Wave).

But Hunters are more natural for your needs, especially since PVP is a endgame for hunter's, where you actually shine bright:
You can CC, pop a nasty and safe aoe slow, interrupt two targets at once at flag's, and it's very difficult to jump you with stealth. In addition you can gear quite well just by doing pvp.

Last but not least: while rogues do need some gear for successful PVP you can gear up quite well just by doing PVP.
Appreciate the info... so far it looks like Hunter is winning out, perhaps followed by Mage. I had been leaning toward mage honestly but I might be coming around a bit to hunter based on the comments in this thread. Isn't there an epic quest bow for hunters... where they have to hunt demons and stuff? Maybe it requires a raid drop though.

Cheers.

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ejangle wrote:
3 weeks ago
Isn't there an epic quest bow for hunters... where they have to hunt demons and stuff? Maybe it requires a raid drop though.
The Rhok'delar quest chain. Eventually earning the bow, the staff and and the quiver. The bow requires a base understanding of each of your competencies as a hunter. You will need to show DPS, threat management and kiting. This quest chain is super fun. Many parts of the chain can now be cheesed but the quest can still be challenging for mediocre players. Even on private servers I often get a lot of praise for carrying around that bow. I will also say that on private many players are STILL paying for carries through the quest line to this day. The quest is still relevant and still challenging. There are many good videos about the entire quest that can be watched on youtube for those interested.

Quest starts off with a leaf drop from Domos chest. Eventually you will need a sinew from Onyxia for the quiver. This bow is one of the very few items in the game with a skill check associated to it. Having done this chain several times, it is still rewarding to complete it today.

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@Stfuppercut I like the idea of a quest chain that requires skill and class knowledge... I wouldn't be amongst those paying for help. I'd rather be good enough at the class that I can earn it. Is the Rhok'delar bow, staff and quiver solid in terms of damage/stats? Would it be replaced by something from MC? BWL? PVP Rewards?

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ejangle wrote:
3 weeks ago
@Stfuppercut I like the idea of a quest chain that requires skill and class knowledge... I wouldn't be amongst those paying for help. I'd rather be good enough at the class that I can earn it. Is the Rhok'delar bow, staff and quiver solid in terms of damage/stats? Would it be replaced by something from MC? BWL? PVP Rewards?
it will last until chromag in BWL, who drops https://classic.wowhead.com/item=19361/ ... of-smiting

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Latsiv wrote:
3 weeks ago
ejangle wrote:
3 weeks ago
@Stfuppercut I like the idea of a quest chain that requires skill and class knowledge... I wouldn't be amongst those paying for help. I'd rather be good enough at the class that I can earn it. Is the Rhok'delar bow, staff and quiver solid in terms of damage/stats? Would it be replaced by something from MC? BWL? PVP Rewards?
it will last until chromag in BWL, who drops https://classic.wowhead.com/item=19361/ ... of-smiting
My friend was rank 14 Hunter and he replaced that bow with the Grand Marshal Gun because he was a Dwarf with +5 Guns racial

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Warrior. I hope everyone is running around as gearless warriors lol.

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Honestly before reading this thread I always thought SL Warlocks were the least gear dependent PvPers (stack stam and win?), but I would assume that I have a bias because Warlock is >>>>> than Druids in PvP.

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Cletus wrote:
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Warrior. I hope everyone is running around as gearless warriors lol.
As a mage, do you really care whether the warrior is geared or not?? :wink: :wink:

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Selexin wrote:
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Honestly before reading this thread I always thought SL Warlocks were the least gear dependent PvPers (stack stam and win?), but I would assume that I have a bias because Warlock is >>>>> than Druids in PvP.
I hope your right because im rolling a Warlock and I most likely wont have the time to get elite gear like i once did!

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