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1 year ago (Beta)
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So during the AV testing I rolled a rogue and I was able to create a mouse-over Blind which allowed me to effectively CC a third party without changing targets and without losing any combo points.

#showtooltip
/cast [@mouseover, harm] [@focus, harm] [] Blind
I didn't think this was possible in classic, and I believe it has significant implications for balance.

What do you think?

   Saltybob teebling Lendryn
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1 year ago (Beta)
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Wow! That's insane. That has MASSIVE implications on balance. Great information, thank you! You didnt submit a bug ticket did you... ... ..........

   Saltybob
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1 year ago (Beta)
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AFAIK this is working as intended. Side effect from the new API/Client, been like this since the Demo and start of the BETA.

   teebling
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5bx wrote:
1 year ago
AFAIK this is working as intended. Side effect from the new API/Client, been like this since the Demo and start of the BETA.
I wouldnt say it is working as intended if it was not this way in Vanilla. But like you said this has been reported since the beginning of the beta.

Does anyone know if Blizzard has made any comment on it? It is definitely a powerful change for Rogues.

Priest Holy
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1 year ago (Beta)
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Stfuppercut wrote:
1 year ago
Wow! That's insane. That has MASSIVE implications on balance. Great information, thank you! You didnt submit a bug ticket did you... ... ..........
Spotted the rogue!

Saltybob <Senile Chieftains> - Shazzrah PvP (EU)
Arathi Basin
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1 year ago (Beta)
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That worked in Classic already, there were great addons that made this possible.
It's not a bug, it's just a side effect of the new API. It doesn't give you a big advantage in Classic either.

   v1stra
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aeh wrote:
1 year ago
That worked in Classic already, there were great addons that made this possible.
It's not a bug, it's just a side effect of the new API. It doesn't give you a big advantage in Classic either.
It does for Rogues, you don't lose combo points.

   Stfuppercut
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aeh wrote:
1 year ago
It doesn't give you a big advantage in Classic either.
It gives you a gigantic advantage as a rogue.

g0bledyg00k wrote:
10 months ago
Never making a single investment again until I 100% know it pays off.
2000 IQ :wink:
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Stfuppercut wrote:
1 year ago
It gives you a gigantic advantage as a skilled rogue.
FTFY :lol:

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Selexin wrote:
1 year ago
It gives you a gigantic advantage as a skilled rogue.
Ehhh... Have you played a rogue/ with a rogue/ against a rogue in retail arenas in the past 3 xpacs??? Even the shitters are using macros that have equivalent complexity. If we can mouseover in Classic to save combos, most rogues will be using them in PvP.

g0bledyg00k wrote:
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Never making a single investment again until I 100% know it pays off.
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Stfuppercut wrote:
1 year ago
Selexin wrote:
1 year ago
It gives you a gigantic advantage as a skilled rogue.
Ehhh... Have you played a rogue/ with a rogue/ against a rogue in retail arenas in the past 3 xpacs??? Even the shitters are using macros that have equivalent complexity. If we can mouseover in Classic to save combos, most rogues will be using them in PvP.
I did play some rogue a couple of xpacs ago, basically as soon as I ding the new level cap I quit the xpacs, so no PvP or challenging content faced (i.e. no macros needed to play). I guess back in the day when I was playing arenas and stuff it was only the good rogues who would utilise custom macros etc.

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Selexin wrote:
1 year ago
I did play some rogue a couple of xpacs ago, basically as soon as I ding the new level cap I quit the xpacs, so no PvP or challenging content faced (i.e. no macros needed to play). I guess back in the day when I was playing arenas and stuff it was only the good rogues who would utilise custom macros etc.
Aaaa. Yeah, no, the bar has been raised quite significantly.

g0bledyg00k wrote:
10 months ago
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Stfuppercut wrote:
1 year ago
Aaaa. Yeah, no, the bar has been raised quite significantly.
This is part of the meta I'm not super enthused about with Classic WoW, but is something completely unavoidable. There will be so many more min/maxer turbonerds compared to vanilla WoW when everyone was a noob. It is what it is, and it is the evolution of the game - I guess I'm in it for the old vibes, not the competitive edge. This is part of the reason I have been considering PvE also, as those servers will be largely focused on PvE goals and experiences, rather than PvP bleeding edge gameplay. I could be wrong on that though.

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I can tell you guys that a mouseover macro affects everyone quite fairly. Sure a Rogue/Feral has the ability to generate CP on a non-autoattacking mob which some people would consider "strong" but it's not all that useful in the greater scheme of things, perhaps helping most with their leveling.

Mouseovers existed prior due to scripting and addons but worked slightly different, with the new API you can't have everything 100% as they were but they try to mimic the best they can. Dropping CP on untarget is pserv bs so

   Pluuf MeatLumps
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Selexin wrote:
1 year ago
This is part of the meta I'm not super enthused about with Classic WoW, but is something completely unavoidable. There will be so many more min/maxer turbonerds compared to vanilla WoW when everyone was a noob. It is what it is, and it is the evolution of the game - I guess I'm in it for the old vibes, not the competitive edge. This is part of the reason I have been considering PvE also, as those servers will be largely focused on PvE goals and experiences, rather than PvP bleeding edge gameplay. I could be wrong on that though.
Aaaaa, us turbonerds have always existed. The result will be the same. Downranking my spells and using rank 1 shadow word pain to proc blackouts in vanilla made me a stud spriest! I was on the cutting edge of the meta (bahahaha). I laughed at the keyboard turners and mopped the floor with them. Keybinds and downranking was the difference between the shitters and the turbonerds. I guess you could throw addons in this category as well?

The new generation will have their own meta and will laugh at the new version of keyboard turners (who I will inevitably become over the course of time). The cycle repeats and the meta evolves, the top players continue to raise the bar, and that raises the expectations of the mediocre players who eventually rise to the occasion.

g0bledyg00k wrote:
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2000 IQ :wink:
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Stfuppercut wrote:
1 year ago
The cycle repeats and the meta evolves, the top players continue to raise the bar, and that raises the expectations of the mediocre players who eventually rise to the occasion.
I think that was what I was getting at, I was probably somewhat min/max turbonerd equivalent in Vanilla, but I stopped there and intend to play to a similar level that I did in vanilla (geez I feel like an old bastard now). I guess what I was saying was what you were getting at, the bar has changed, so what was considered a turbonerd, is now the 'norm'. I don't think I have the energy to commit to raising my own playing bar to match the new level of elite, which is my own choice/failing. Wait, I've turned into Principal Skinner!

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I like all the rogues trying to pretend this is intended/valid balance change/always existed/effects everyone equally/etc etc.

It's not, and if you have to try and push for something like this, you have to ask if classic wow is really the game for you, instead of something a bit more hand-holdy.

Like retail.

   Selexin v1stra
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1 year ago (Beta)
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Addons like SuperMacro let you make this in the 1.12 client (pservers), so it's a good idea to have the @mouseover functionality of the new client out of the box.

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1 year ago (Beta)
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Raven wrote:
1 year ago
I can tell you guys that a mouseover macro affects everyone quite fairly. Sure a Rogue/Feral has the ability to generate CP on a non-autoattacking mob which some people would consider "strong" but it's not all that useful in the greater scheme of things, perhaps helping most with their leveling.

Mouseovers existed prior due to scripting and addons but worked slightly different, with the new API you can't have everything 100% as they were but they try to mimic the best they can. Dropping CP on untarget is pserv bs so
Raven is quite right! I just researched the topic a bit after watching the video he provided, it seems that combo points were only removed prior to patch 1.4 Patch 1.4.0 (2005-05-05): Combo points will no longer be removed if the target is deselected. and as we all know we are working with 1.12 in Classic, so this should be all good. I am really happy to have /focus and mouseover options.

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Executive wrote:
1 year ago
I like all the rogues trying to pretend this is intended/valid balance change/always existed/effects everyone equally/etc etc.

It's not, and if you have to try and push for something like this, you have to ask if classic wow is really the game for you, instead of something a bit more hand-holdy.

Like retail.
Interesting echo-chamber thought there. I'll just leave this here: Patch 1.4.0 (2005-05-05): Combo points will no longer be removed if the target is deselected..

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Pluuf wrote:
1 year ago
I am really happy to have /focus and mouseover options.
Just an fyi that focus macros aren't in.

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Raven wrote:
1 year ago
Pluuf wrote:
1 year ago
I am really happy to have /focus and mouseover options.
Just an fyi that focus macros aren't in.
Thanks for shattering my drea... eeh, I mean, for telling me upfront!

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Pluuf wrote:
1 year ago
Interesting echo-chamber thought there. I'll just leave this here: Patch 1.4.0 (2005-05-05): Combo points will no longer be removed if the target is deselected..
I think there is a lot of confusion about how mouseover macros work in conjunction with combo points, which is why I'm hoping there might be a blue post to clear things up at some point.

The whole patch note says "Combo points will no longer be removed if the target is deselected. They will only be removed if a different target is selected"

Looking at the macro code, mouseover macros technically "target" something. Is this the same as selecting someone?

In my mind, apart from what the patch notes say, the other question becomes: what does visual evidence from that time period show? There's always the possibilty that there was a bug and it didnt work as intended originally. Does anyone have an old PvP video that can show that a mouseover macro cleared or did not clear the combo points on another target?

We can debate all day what we think it should be, but in my opinion, only a definitive source (gameplay footage from that time, or a Blizzard post) can clear up the confusion.

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MeatLumps wrote:
1 year ago
In my mind, apart from what the patch notes say, the other question becomes: what does visual evidence from that time period show? There's always the possibilty that there was a bug and it didnt work as intended originally. Does anyone have an old PvP video that can show that a mouseover macro cleared or did not clear the combo points on another target?
Raven originally posted this link you see him detarget and return to his original target with CP.

Edit: Detarget, targeting another player and then return to his original target with CP even.

   MeatLumps
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Pluuf wrote:
1 year ago
Raven originally posted this link...you see him detarget and return to his original target with CP.

Edit: Detarget, targeting another player and then return to his original target with CP even.
Thanks. I missed that when I read through. It seems pretty clear from the video that, like you said the rogue puts CPs on the original target, gets feared, targets a gnome, then goes back to the original target with CPs still up.

Unless Blizz says otherwise, it seems pretty clear that it's working the way it used to.

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