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Tier 0 was iconic in vanilla and was what everyone craved early in the game's history. Nowadays everyone knows it actually sucks and instead you see people walking around in dire maul greens instead because they're BIS for MC.

I have extremely fond memories about running dungeons like Stratholme, UBRS, Scholomance, craving that tier 0. However now, no one will really bother trying to get the full set for their class, or even more than one or two pieces since it's so unoptimised and the stats are bad for almost all classes.

I know that changing something like this is a slippery slope and that this will never happen, but damn if I could just see people walking around with full tier 0 sets again that would truly make me feel like I was back in 2005.

   Stfuppercut Dolamite
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I see your point, but I think it's better to leave it as it is. It will be a status for people who go out of their way to complete it. And stats aside, it's so cool! I personally can't wait to do the full tier 0.5 chain. IT's the endgame for people that don't raid :-)

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fendor wrote:
2 months ago
I see your point, but I think it's better to leave it as it is. It will be a status for people who go out of their way to complete it. And stats aside, it's so cool! I personally can't wait to do the full tier 0.5 chain. IT's the endgame for people that don't raid :-)
This ^ I won't be raiding much so I'll be aiming for T0.5.

   fendor Selexin
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The dungeon sets aren't as bad as a lot of people make them out to be.

When you're in your late 50's or just dinged 60, you will get a nice stat boost when replacing some of your quest items. Yeah, they're usually not the best, but I don't think that's the role they're meant to fill either. The 4-set bonus on most sets even out the lack of green stats somewhat as well.

They are in a pretty good place as is. On the contrary, if the sets were really good wouldn't that dumb down pre-raid gearing quite a lot? Just collect your class' set and get going. 8/8 set bonus: ignore all other blue items.

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Well, we don't have Dire Maul in first phase, so maybe we will see some use of T0.

   fendor Selexin
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I want them to leave it as the way it is because I never got to play classic so I want to get my chance to finally try it not a changed version of it

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Subutai wrote:
2 months ago
I know that changing something like this is a slippery slope and that this will never happen, but damn if I could just see people walking around with full tier 0 sets again that would truly make me feel like I was back in 2005.
I think a lot of classes have balance issues not because of the class abilities, but because of the gear doesnt exist for the spec. I would like to see things like this done after phase 6. I think a perfect phase 7 would be an additional dungeon set, or a rework of the existing to allow for a little variety in the raid makeup.

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I want to Vanilla to be Vanilla, as a Shaman my pre-raid bis is like 15% mail items and rest cloth. Which is fine for me but it sucks for clothies needing on +healing gear since I will be needing on them too. It should have been optimized right from the start that there were equally good items in mail versions and plate versions imo but I wouldnt want them to change it for classic release. Somehow certain flaws makes the game good (not neccesarily this one)

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res wrote:
2 months ago
They are in a pretty good place as is. On the contrary, if the sets were really good wouldn't that dumb down pre-raid gearing quite a lot? Just collect your class' set and get going. 8/8 set bonus: ignore all other blue items.
I disagree. The 0.5 sets were intentionally spread through ALL the content. Collecting the 0.5 set meant working as a team. Sometimes this would require going out of your way to kill bosses that drop specific items. Lets take UBRS for example. In vanilla, you got your team and you headed to UBRS. You did ALL the content including Solakar Flamewreath (egg room) for the chance at devout shoulders (and an engi pattern). What do we see in the new meta where it is common knowledge that 0.5 is utter trash? Groups form and spam dungeon reset to find an ID with the rare spawn Jed. They run in and do a 15 min Rend run and then reset and repeat. Having a specified set of BiS gear that overshadows 0.5 due to its poor itemization invalidates a GIGANTIC portion of the content. Most groups simply wont do these extra bosses. Most players wont collect 0.5. The players that do, arent playing efficiently. The 0.5 could use a stat overhaul to make the pieces competitive or desirable in any way and thus encourage players to do ALL of the content.

The current meta of pre raid gear is VERY dumbed down. For most classes you get your devilsaur set and a few pieces scattered through Strat and UBRS and you are raid ready.

From an unbiased onlooker, if you are seen in 0.5 most players will likely giggle at you for wasting your time and wearing terribly itemized gear. In vanilla sporting this set was a genuine achievement, in Classic you will be viewed by some players as incompetent and unknowledgable.

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Stfuppercut wrote:
2 months ago
res wrote:
2 months ago
From an unbiased onlooker, if you are seen in 0.5 most players will likely giggle at you for wasting your time and wearing terribly itemized gear. In vanilla sporting this set was a genuine achievement, in Classic you will be viewed by some players as incompetent and unknowledgable.
Yes and no. Of course a large number of people will know that is not really the best set available etc., but being it a status quo set I think a lot of people will know also the great effort required to aquire it...

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I used to have my 'flex' gear in the bank for standing around in cities (tier sets etc) and then just switched to BiS when I was actually playing the game.

I'll probably do the same again this time because wearing the https://www.wowhead.com/item-set=421/bloodvine-garb set really sucks.

I'd be impressed by anyone with full 0.5, you kinda accept that it's not for stats it's just because you can and that's what Classic is about!

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Thankfully tier 0 and 0.5 are actually pretty good for druid PvP and grinding (feral/resto). I want it for appearance and semi usefulness. Definitely don't want any stat changes though.

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Stfuppercut wrote:
2 months ago
From an unbiased onlooker, if you are seen in 0.5 most players will likely giggle at you for wasting your time and wearing terribly itemized gear. In vanilla sporting this set was a genuine achievement, in Classic you will be viewed by some players as incompetent and unknowledgable.
This is a horrible and very damning view of the community you are expecting in Classic, quite poignant...

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Relik wrote:
2 months ago
I'll probably do the same again this time because wearing the https://www.wowhead.com/item-set=421/bloodvine-garb set really sucks.
RIGHT! How awful is that set? An aesthetic nightmare... And it lasts sooooo long.

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Stfuppercut wrote:
2 months ago
res wrote:
2 months ago
They are in a pretty good place as is. On the contrary, if the sets were really good wouldn't that dumb down pre-raid gearing quite a lot? Just collect your class' set and get going. 8/8 set bonus: ignore all other blue items.
I disagree. The 0.5 sets were intentionally spread through ALL the content. Collecting the 0.5 set meant working as a team. Sometimes this would require going out of your way to kill bosses that drop specific items. Lets take UBRS for example. In vanilla, you got your team and you headed to UBRS. You did ALL the content including Solakar Flamewreath (egg room) for the chance at devout shoulders (and an engi pattern). What do we see in the new meta where it is common knowledge that 0.5 is utter trash? Groups form and spam dungeon reset to find an ID with the rare spawn Jed. They run in and do a 15 min Rend run and then reset and repeat. Having a specified set of BiS gear that overshadows 0.5 due to its poor itemization invalidates a GIGANTIC portion of the content. Most groups simply wont do these extra bosses. Most players wont collect 0.5. The players that do, arent playing efficiently. The 0.5 could use a stat overhaul to make the pieces competitive or desirable in any way and thus encourage players to do ALL of the content.

The current meta of pre raid gear is VERY dumbed down. For most classes you get your devilsaur set and a few pieces scattered through Strat and UBRS and you are raid ready.

From an unbiased onlooker, if you are seen in 0.5 most players will likely giggle at you for wasting your time and wearing terribly itemized gear. In vanilla sporting this set was a genuine achievement, in Classic you will be viewed by some players as incompetent and unknowledgable.
Lul, agreed with the poster above me quoting you. Nobody who collects 0.5 doesnt care about neckbeards giggling at your gear or atleast shouldnt. You can always just not play with people who are toxic like that. Not everyone is gonna care about your optimized 15 min speed runs etc. There is other types of players in the game who enjoy the game than minmaxers and overcompensators even tho usually they think there arent and shouldnt be.

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Isomena wrote:
2 months ago
Lul, agreed with the poster above me quoting you. Nobody who collects 0.5 doesnt care about neckbeards giggling at your gear or atleast shouldnt. You can always just not play with people who are toxic like that. Not everyone is gonna care about your optimized 15 min speed runs etc. There is other types of players in the game who enjoy the game than minmaxers and overcompensators even tho usually they think there arent and shouldnt be.
That is a fair point. Though its still unfortunate that those sets are for the most part, useless. Will some people collect them? Sure. Everyone will play the game the way THEY want to play it. But if they (the sets) were valuable, more people would collect them. That would be better for the game. That would be more authentic. A lot of unfortunate players who aren't aware of the meta, may actually collect the set for performance reasons and be met with the startling realization that their set is garbage.

What really bothers me is how much effort went into designing the sets, their placement around the world and the adventure that was associated with collecting them... Most of that content is just useless (from a performance/efficiency standpoint). For most players who would love to collect their sets (me included), I simply wont be able to justify the investment of time for a set that I wont be wearing.

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what would we have to remove from the game, or at least kick down to a later phase of content, to make T0 and T0.5 sets useful?

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