Feralas
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Let's put #nochanges aside and theorize a bit.

What class changes you would like to see to increase class viability in specific aspects or maybe even to decrease it?
For example, improving Prot Paladin aggro and giving them seal that generates a big amount of aggro when unleashed to "taunt" target.

Warlock Demonology
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Selfishly, I'd like Infernal and Doomguard to inspire a little more fear and respect to enemies. I still love them but I wish they had more practical use. They are some of the coolest class fantasy-fueling skills out there imo.

I definitely would make paladin tanking actually viable too.

Loch modan
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I would add relics for shamans, druids and paladins that give them a taunt like ability.
These relics are obtained by doing a lengthy (and challenging) quest chain. Definitely including dungeons, maybe raids.
The items to start these quest chains have to be crafted
The recipe to craft these relics only drop from a meaningful raid (AQ40/Naxx)
The materials to craft these items are partly expensive, partly bop from weird locations.

Mage Frost
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Would be extremely cool to see shaman tanks synergizing with their own totems. Their kit hints at it having been in the cards at some point, but sadly that side of them was never fleshed out. Samaraner is onto something with the relics, but it's probably a much larger rework than just that. I'm not sure exactly what changes need to be implemented.

Obviously paladins and druids being better tanks but not on a warrior level since they're both hybrids. I think that the less roles a class can fulfill the better it has to be in that specific role and vice versa.

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I would make rogues more usable as tanks... i actually did tank vaelastrasz, because we ran out of tanks :twisted:

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Thunder Bluff
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Samaraner wrote:
1 month ago
I would add relics for shamans, druids and paladins that give them a taunt like ability.
These relics are obtained by doing a lengthy (and challenging) quest chain. Definitely including dungeons, maybe raids.
The items to start these quest chains have to be crafted
The recipe to craft these relics only drop from a meaningful raid (AQ40/Naxx)
The materials to craft these items are partly expensive, partly bop from weird locations.
Why would you want to give the hybrids a tanking ability - but then hide it behind all the content they would want to tank?

Otherwise I would agree.

Mulgore
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Tauren 164 posts
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There was a time in TBC where I was playing as a dual wielding prot warrior. It was crazy in BG's (or at least it felt crazy) because I had so much health and armor and Devastate would proc off both weapons. I wouldn't mind them exploring new "styles" more so than builds, if that makes sense.

I have nothing fancy to add here, but if you've never played Binary Domain, you should.
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I really want to play a Paladin, but I am Horde life, and I also find retribution so fucking boring. I leveled one on a private server and I died inside leveling that stupid class.

So I would like to see a rework of Retribution Paladins. They don't even need to do more damage but give them Crusader Strike and nerf other things.

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Prio 1:
Fix Paladin tanking, give them a Taunt and some tweaking. Make shadow priests viable in raids, probably requires some bigger changes than just uping their damage and increasing debuff slots.

Prio 2:
Make hunters scale better with gear. Make druids good at something, right now they are the true jack of all trades master of non except being the FC. Druids are bad at everything except range dps where they are very bad, make them good at one thing while staying as viable as they are now at everything ells. Maybe fix cat dps a bit as well because the reason it is viable right now is completely reliant on farming manual crowd pummelers and power shifting, though i do kinda like the power shifting.

Prio 3, not really something that needed:
Bring back warriors more in line with every other class. Make pets scale up with gear.

No prio:
More spell hit gear from pre raid to end of naxx might be something as well but it would require a lot of tweaking to keep the casters in line with current preformance just more consistent

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My contribution to this topic is to quote Devner’s (caperfin’s) Shaman tanking guide about optimal/viable terminology and how people very often confuse the two:

The topic of Viable and Optimal is a highly controversial topic as some people simply don't see the difference or mixed these words up and commonly interject their own misguided philosophy onto it. To put it simply, Optimal is the most efficient and foolproof solution to solve a problem that eliminates as many negative variables as possible and favors a more easy going route. Next, is Viable or commonly referred to as possible, which is often seen as the more challenging path to take but to many feels like a greater personal achievement.
Making classes more or less optimal always leads to homogenisation eventually with enough tweaks.

Making classes viable can be done without optimisations - it just requires creativity and hard work to make it possible.

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Warlock Demonology
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I think more unique questlines/rewards for classes that don't have things like Class mounts or something that leads to a huge unique piece of gear like Benediction.

Mulgore
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Tauren 164 posts
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teebling wrote:
1 month ago

Making classes more or less optimal always leads to homogenisation eventually with enough tweaks.

Making classes viable can be done without optimisations - it just requires creativity and hard work to make it possible.
The former makes the game a numbers crunch where the only objective is to skinner box the fuck out of raids.

The latter is what makes the game fun.

I know a lot of folks here are hardcore, but it makes me sad how little talk there is about the fun adventures to be had in the game, and how much there is about the whole end game/git gud/absolutes-for-raiding/bis at all costs.

   pan0phobik
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Jon Bloodspray wrote:
1 month ago
teebling wrote:
1 month ago

Making classes more or less optimal always leads to homogenisation eventually with enough tweaks.

Making classes viable can be done without optimisations - it just requires creativity and hard work to make it possible.
The former makes the game a numbers crunch where the only objective is to skinner box the fuck out of raids.

The latter is what makes the game fun.

I know a lot of folks here are hardcore, but it makes me sad how little talk there is about the fun adventures to be had in the game, and how much there is about the whole end game/git gud/absolutes-for-raiding/bis at all costs.
I'm actually a big supporter of fun adventures that don't correlate with BiS/Rewards/E-Peening. I'm making it a personal mission to encourage a lot of flat out just FUN shit like randomly attacking opposing faction cities, killing faction leaders, causing general drama between factions, etc.

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Hyland wrote:
1 month ago
Let's put #nochanges aside and theorize a bit.

What class changes you would like to see to increase class viability in specific aspects or maybe even to decrease it?
For example, improving Prot Paladin aggro and giving them seal that generates a big amount of aggro when unleashed to "taunt" target.
I am not no changes. I think that they should recreate Classic how it was to try and preserve gameplay, however I don't see any reason to avoid placing niche items in the game that help to validate oddball specs. For example, why shouldn't a paladin be able to get a quest drop from MC/BWL that eventually leads to them unlocking taunt. It wouldn't change the meta... A taunt is not the only reason prot paladins are awful, and it wouldn't have rippling affects on gameplay, as it would be somewhat exclusive as a BoP drop gated behind a long and arduous flavor quest. In my eyes, this only adds to the RPG element that makes Vanilla great and gives theory crafters and would-be prot pallies something to play with.

I've done the priest benediction staff quest during retail vanilla and I have done the hunter leaf quests several times on private and I can say, the other classes need something like this. I've also done the warlock mount quest, and its no where near as fun! Again, im not advocating for an overhaul, but I could get behind a few exclusive quest lines that give meme specs something interesting to play with.

   Bumlebi teebling
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I wish rogues got Swirly Ball back.

Detect Traps is better as an active ability than a passive one, in my opinion. Upon activation, a small ball of light swirled around your character, hence, "Swirly Ball." And we loved it. It didn't cost energy, it could be cast while in stealth, while mounted, while on a flight path, doing anything, really! It was our worry stone, a fidget button, something to do while bored.

And it was thematic too. The same level you would learn Detect Traps, you get a class quest to visit Ravenholdt Manor for the first time. You're given vague instructions that you must pass a "rite of cunning" before you may speak to the lord of the manor. In the cave leading up to it, there is a chest. It is labeled: Open to pass your rite. Clever rogues may use Detect Traps to find a floating gemstone that warns, DANGER! Do not open! Move Along! If you open the chest, an elite mob over ten levels higher than you, Milton, spawns in to kill you. When you get to Ravenholdt and turn in the quest, the man there asks, "Did you meet Milton?" and laughs.

With Detect Traps as an always-on passive trait, the quest loses its magic. You'll always know the chest is trapped, and are robbed of the experience of finding the trap by your own actual "cunning."

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