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6 months ago (Beta)
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Back in the day I played on a PvE server, which worked out because I was a casual that had no idea what I was doing. This time around, I'm considering rolling on a PvP server but am a little wary. I'm looking to have fun PvP encounters but don't want to get steamrolled all day long while leveling.

So my question is: How miserable can PvP servers be for a casual player? Is it probable that I could still have fun PvP encounters in my day-to-day leveling? :confused:

   Selexin
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6 months ago (Beta)
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You will get steamrolled on a PvP server.
You will get corpse-camped on a PvP server.
You will get ambushed, beaten, spat at, humiliated.

But you will also have a ton of fun grouping up with your faction.
You will finally get payback at that rouge who ganked you last week, and it will feel amazing.
You will help or get help by a fellow player during an unfair PvP encounter, forming bonds you wouldn't on a PvE-server.

It's not all fun and games, you will probably rage-quit at some point while levelling on a PvP-server.
But to me it's worth it. Just log back in later, and show them that you're not a quitter.

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6 months ago (Beta)
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With layering servers we will have to wait and see what implications that has on PvP. There is no longer ONE Nessingwarys camp, rather several of them coexisting. You will be able to receive invites from friends or guildies to jump layers and avoid areas with a heavy enemy presence. This is also true for being corpse camped. With layering it will be really hard to camp someone when they can just change layers. We will also have to see if chat is confined to each layer or if you will be able to communicate cross-layer with /1 chat etc... If this is the case, a quick message in /1 "hey does anyone have a layer where Nessys is safe?" will do you wonders. The biggest wall to leveling on a PvP server is player interaction and layering gives you some wiggle room to avoid that interaction. I plan on abusing layering as much as the game will let me to gain an advantage. That being said, you will get steamrolled, but you wont have to suffer merciless camping like was present on retail vanilla and private. You will be able to use the layering system to avoid instances of prolonged punishment until layering is removed.

"How miserable can PvP servers be for a casual player?" You will be ganked. You wont be camped unless you choose to be by staying in your layer.

"Is it probable that I could still have fun PvP encounters in my day-to-day leveling?" Yes, if you enjoy PvP. Will PvP add to your personal experience or detract from it?

Layering goes both ways as well... I can use it to avoid being ganked by a wall of enemies who have taken a valuable point. Instead of being quest blocked until they leave, I just shift to another layer to avoid them. I can also use layering to prevent players retaliating... I can gank to my hearts content and when they show up with a main or a friend, I can simply hop layers and get out of there without any ramifications.

Shadowmeld will actually have pretty good value for layer hopping. During phase 1.

Selexin wrote:
2 weeks ago
I'll have you know we have many resident developers who were involved in the creation of Vanilla WoW that have fantastically fool proof solutions to allll the imaginary problems!!!
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6 months ago (Beta)
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Agree to the post above regarding layering. I hope Blizz sees the potential for abuse for layer-swapping. Introducing a 15 minute layer-swapping debuff where you can't deal damage (but can take damage) and can't intract with NPC's could be a good start.

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6 months ago (Beta)
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Holy shit @Stfuppercut, layering news hit you hard. The question wasn't about layering at all, especially since that is only Phase 1 at most.

Layering will have little to no impact on your PvP experience while leveling and will be gone by the time you're 60 and care about knowing people by name.

Sometimes PvP servers can make you cry, sometimes they can provide a really rewarded and satisfying world experience, especially with friends and guildies. I'm still torn on whether to PvE or PvP - but a big part of me doesn't want to regret going PvE for the later experiences.

   Brhule rijndael
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6 months ago (Beta)
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@Stfuppercut, can you point to us on this doll where the layering touched you?

https://thriftgasm.files.wordpress.com/ ... =309&h=305

   Brhule
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6 months ago (Beta)
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Selexin wrote:
6 months ago
Holy shit @Stfuppercut, layering news hit you hard. The question wasn't about layering at all, especially since that is only Phase 1 at most.

Layering will have little to no impact on your PvP experience while leveling and will be gone by the time you're 60 and care about knowing people by name.

Sometimes PvP servers can make you cry, sometimes they can provide a really rewarded and satisfying world experience, especially with friends and guildies. I'm still torn on whether to PvE or PvP - but a big part of me doesn't want to regret going PvE for the later experiences.
No, I think layering is relevant to the question... People who are opposed to PvP or have a negative connotation with PvP are often reluctant to play due to ganking, corpse camping, etc etc etc... Layering removes this as a reality. You wont be corpse camped for hours on end when you can shift to a different layer. We have a player asking how intense PvP is, likely because he has heard horror stories, the reality of existing on a PvP server during the initial phase of Classic will be VERY different. Will a player gank you in PvP? Sure. But as soon as you get back to your body and he is standing on you, you grab a quick invite from a guildie and youre outta that layer. Poof!

"How miserable can PvP servers be?" The misery is now contained to a layer. The misery is optional. You now have the ability to avoid misery.

   rijndael
Selexin wrote:
2 weeks ago
I'll have you know we have many resident developers who were involved in the creation of Vanilla WoW that have fantastically fool proof solutions to allll the imaginary problems!!!
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rijndael wrote:
6 months ago
@Stfuppercut, can you point to us on this doll where the layering touched you?

https://thriftgasm.files.wordpress.com/ ... =309&h=305
Right on the big red heart! It made me sad... </3

Selexin wrote:
2 weeks ago
I'll have you know we have many resident developers who were involved in the creation of Vanilla WoW that have fantastically fool proof solutions to allll the imaginary problems!!!
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Stfuppercut wrote:
6 months ago
But as soon as you get back to your body and he is standing on you, you grab a quick invite from a guildie and youre outta that phase! Poof!
That's assuming your guildie and the person who ganked you aren't already in the same layer. If we're talking about 2 layers per realm for pops of 6K, that's not a lot of wiggle room to just run away with layering. Also, I don't think you'll be able to shift from one layer to the other infinitely like that.

Probably too early to tell though. This feature was only just announced and it sounds like we're all itching for more details.

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rijndael wrote:
6 months ago
Stfuppercut wrote:
6 months ago
But as soon as you get back to your body and he is standing on you, you grab a quick invite from a guildie and youre outta that phase! Poof!
That's assuming your guildie and the person who ganked you aren't already in the same layer. If we're talking about 2 layers per realm for pops of 6K, that's not a lot of wiggle room to just run away with layering. Also, I don't think you'll be able to shift from one layer to the other infinitely like that.

Probably too early to tell though. This feature was only just announced and it sounds like we're all itching for more details.
This is true. Though if there are 2 layers, you have pretty good odds (50%) that the guildy is in the other layer... If he isnt, well, lets hope youre not in a guild with two people. Did they say they were maxing this at 2 layers? I Thought I heard Ion mention upwards of 3? Never heard them say there was a cap though.

Selexin wrote:
2 weeks ago
I'll have you know we have many resident developers who were involved in the creation of Vanilla WoW that have fantastically fool proof solutions to allll the imaginary problems!!!
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6 months ago (Beta)
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What you fail to understand is that everyone in your guild will be on the same layer. This isn't sharding, you're basically never going to have a chance to meet/see anyone from the other shard unless you have RealID with them beforehand.

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No they didn't mention a cap to my knowledge, I'm just assuming we're not looking at Light's Hope level of pop across all the realms. However, in one of the videos they did mention that want to try to keep people "sticky" to a certain layer, including keeping guilds within the same one so as to minimize switching. This is why I think using guildies to escape ganking may not be in the cards.

At this point we can only speculate. Although I can appreciate the discussion positing some worst case scenarios I'm willing to bet they've thought this through a little more so as prevent or minimize back & forth phasing across layers. But who knows? Maybe you're absolutely right and they screwed the pooch. However, even in that case I think Classic would survive and hobble into Phase 2 with some stability as long as the goal of healthy long term populations is achieved. I think they're stuck between a rock and a hard place and there's really no perfect solution in dealing with the challenges of launching Classic.

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6 months ago (Beta)
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I'm currently level 47 and have been ganked 5 times in a row by a 60 while doing the same quest.

This is why I listen to podcasts while I play.

https://i.imgur.com/qnef65g.png
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Executive wrote:
6 months ago
What you fail to understand is that everyone in your guild will be on the same layer. This isn't sharding, you're basically never going to have a chance to meet/see anyone from the other shard unless you have RealID with them beforehand.
Where was this stated? That wouldn't make any sense... You and your friend create characters on the same realm and he happens to log into the second layer so you cant play together? What about pockets of friends that are dispersed between two layers but cant be in the same guild? This wouldn't make any sense at all... If they could actively keep pockets of players in a specific layer, that would excellent. I just dont see how that will be possible. It would also be awful if you leveled 1-30 in a layer, only to make a friend who joined a guild on the other layer... Would you two then be separated permanently unless you were to join his guild???

Selexin wrote:
2 weeks ago
I'll have you know we have many resident developers who were involved in the creation of Vanilla WoW that have fantastically fool proof solutions to allll the imaginary problems!!!
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6 months ago (Beta)
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Ignoring the layering chat for a second and back to just general world PvP.

First guy (edit - Res) got it bang on, plus a little more to add...

Vanilla wows world is huge and quite rich. It is so immersive that you can get lost in there for hours and not realise. It's very easy to get caught up in the grind and the questing and the dungeons, so so easy.

On a PvP server however, that enormous world just got alot scarier and alot more dangerous. If you are new to PvP servers, your constantly vigilant of the enemy faction and makes it all that more intense at times.

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6 months ago (Beta)
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It was stated in the original interview that announced layering, you're sitting here getting turbomad about something you don't even know about?

Be happy classic is happening my dude, don't get mad because blizzard won't release it in a way that will cause massive server population/faction imbalance problems.

   Brhule
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6 months ago (Beta)
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Can we keep discussion about layering in the layering thread please? Or perhaps create a new topic laying out argument of layering effects in world pvp?

   Brhule Cereal Default Selexin
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6 months ago (Beta)
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Well based on the feedback, I'll give PvP servers a go. I'm a pretty good sport when it comes to being ganked and whatnot and if people are willing to assist I can see that as turning itself into a positive experience.

As far as the layering, I don't think it's going to be as big a deal as you guys think. I think it's better than having 500 people in razor hill at least for the first phase.

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Brhule wrote:
6 months ago
Well based on the feedback, I'll give PvP servers a go. I'm a pretty good sport when it comes to being ganked and whatnot and if people are willing to assist I can see that as turning itself into a positive experience.
Honestly, I think you're going to love it. I started on a PvE server back in Vanilla, despite the fact that I was avid PvPer (all my friends were on a PvE server so I joined them), but once I rerolled on a PvP server I could not go back. It completely changes the leveling experience and keeps you on your toes. You will definitely have to get used to being ganked, but from my experience most players are good sports about it and will not corpse camp you.

   Selexin
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6 months ago (Beta)
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My buddies and I will be on a PvP server. We often try to avoid combat and rarely engage the opposite faction first. But the moment we are attacked, you bet yourself we'll always ambush for the rest of the day ;)

   Selexin rijndael
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6 months ago (Beta)
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This thread should be titled "How awesome can PvP servers be?" and the answer is A Lot. Too many of the threads recently have focused on how bad things are anticipated to be. Best advice is to go in with zero expectations because that's how adventures actually happen.

   Selexin teebling Brhule FTHforever Bulldozer res
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6 months ago (Beta)
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Cletus wrote:
6 months ago
This thread should be titled "How awesome can PvP servers be?" and the answer is A Lot. Too many of the threads recently have focused on how bad things are anticipated to be. Best advice is to go in with zero expectations because that's how adventures actually happen.
Well said. I didn't mean to sound negative. I actually can't stand the overwhelming amount of negative posts across all forums. I am extremely excited for the release knowing that I will finally get to genuinely enjoy WoW again. I just never had a full on PvP realm experience and wanted to know if I needed to be a hardcore min/maxer to participate effectively.

   Selexin
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6 months ago (Beta)
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Brhule wrote:
6 months ago
wanted to know if I needed to be a hardcore min/maxer to participate effectively.
Absolutely not, the people you come across will range from keyboard turning 10 year olds, to min/max turbonerds with twinked gear while leveling and capped out engineering. It's all great fun though :)

   Brhule
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6 months ago (Beta)
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I strongly suggest playing on a pvp realm, because the hard school of leveling shapes better players. Look up world first kills in vanilla to wotlk: most are done on pvp realms for a reason.

There is a nice guide here on BC about avoid being ganked, and in addition to it I suggest getting an alt, because sometimes there are griefers that are just there to ruin your day. But thats very hard to do on two points at the same time ;-)

   Brhule
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5 months ago (Beta)
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For streamers, i can understand why they don't roll on PvP servers. But as an everyday player, yes. Just yes.

   Brhule
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