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Poll  •  Kara as a catch-up raid?
Ashenvale
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Vanilj wrote:
3 months ago
Jon Bloodspray wrote:
3 months ago
I think it's important to discuss stuff like this if we ever want Classic to be more than a temporary foray into nostalgia land. Do we really want Classic to be a 2-3 year flash in the pan, and then we all go back to complaining about retail? Yes, I want it to start and end as close to Vanilla as possible. But I also wouldn't be adverse to them expanding on that and giving us additional content that is more in line with what we wanted to begin with, rather than the watered down experience many of us feel we received. Maybe instead of thinking about a relaunched BC server, the writers, creative team, and whatever scrappy group of developers they have working on this thing could say "Ok, we already covered the story in one way when we made BC the first time. This time, what if we did it like this?" The same characters could have different stories and conclusions. Maybe Cairne would roflstomp Garrosh this time(as he would have if it weren't for Magratha)? Maybe Thrall stops trying to be shaman orc jesus and never abdicates the position of Warchief to begin with? What if theirs a schism in the factions and we end up with 3 sides to the conflict? There were a lot of ways things could have gone differently, and at a certain point I'd be ok with exploring some of them.

Some of this is wishful thinking, and some of it is hoping Classic isn't just a one-off.
I think that Old School Runescape is the best example of how to keep the old school feeling in the gameplay while still having fresh content patches released all the time. Before the Old School Runescape team started releasing these patches and just let the game run on it's on, you could see a clear downwards trend in the peak daily player population, The game started of with 70k+ peak but it hit as low as 10k-ish players peak per day after a year or two. Currently they are sitting on 100k+, which goes to show that there is a need for new content at some point down the line.
Yeah, I agree with this line of thinking. I am excited for classic to be just classic. But after a while it's going to suck that there won't be anything new to do. I'm not sure I want classic to be a simple museum piece that people get tired of and abandon over time. I would like to see it follow the OSRS model and start developing new content patches that stick to the framework of classic, adding new content without adding retarded new 'features'. Keep the gameplay true to the classic model, but add new content to do a few years in.

But to answer the question from the original post, I would like to see Kara added post-naxx. Not as a catchup raid, but on top of or next to it in progression. There needs to eventually be somewhere to go after naxx.

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Pippina wrote:
3 weeks ago
Vanilj wrote:
3 months ago
Jon Bloodspray wrote:
3 months ago
I think it's important to discuss stuff like this if we ever want Classic to be more than a temporary foray into nostalgia land. Do we really want Classic to be a 2-3 year flash in the pan, and then we all go back to complaining about retail? Yes, I want it to start and end as close to Vanilla as possible. But I also wouldn't be adverse to them expanding on that and giving us additional content that is more in line with what we wanted to begin with, rather than the watered down experience many of us feel we received. Maybe instead of thinking about a relaunched BC server, the writers, creative team, and whatever scrappy group of developers they have working on this thing could say "Ok, we already covered the story in one way when we made BC the first time. This time, what if we did it like this?" The same characters could have different stories and conclusions. Maybe Cairne would roflstomp Garrosh this time(as he would have if it weren't for Magratha)? Maybe Thrall stops trying to be shaman orc jesus and never abdicates the position of Warchief to begin with? What if theirs a schism in the factions and we end up with 3 sides to the conflict? There were a lot of ways things could have gone differently, and at a certain point I'd be ok with exploring some of them.

Some of this is wishful thinking, and some of it is hoping Classic isn't just a one-off.
I think that Old School Runescape is the best example of how to keep the old school feeling in the gameplay while still having fresh content patches released all the time. Before the Old School Runescape team started releasing these patches and just let the game run on it's on, you could see a clear downwards trend in the peak daily player population, The game started of with 70k+ peak but it hit as low as 10k-ish players peak per day after a year or two. Currently they are sitting on 100k+, which goes to show that there is a need for new content at some point down the line.
Yeah, I agree with this line of thinking. I am excited for classic to be just classic. But after a while it's going to suck that there won't be anything new to do. I'm not sure I want classic to be a simple museum piece that people get tired of and abandon over time. I would like to see it follow the OSRS model and start developing new content patches that stick to the framework of classic, adding new content without adding retarded new 'features'. Keep the gameplay true to the classic model, but add new content to do a few years in.

But to answer the question from the original post, I would like to see Kara added post-naxx. Not as a catchup raid, but on top of or next to it in progression. There needs to eventually be somewhere to go after naxx.
I'm also in this camp. I want the "as pure as can be" Classic experience for a few years, with eventual "content patches" which add zones and dungeons to the game (as was originally planned before the expansion model was adopted for TBC).

Light be with you.
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A lot of elements of TBC were originally planned for classic wow, as has been stated by other posters here.

I would be so down for Kara in vanilla, but not as a catchup raid, but rather as a post naxx raid.

I also don't think they should go to TBC after vanilla. I know a lot of people want that, but I would prefer vanilla to stay vanilla with added content later on. I love the TBC talent tree design and would love to see some form of implementation of that, or even new spells and abilities as well, like treeform form druid for instance. But level cap should not be increased, so how they would do this is up to them. If they want to make some paragon system like they had in diablo 3 sure, although I don't think that would necessarily be the right call.

More classic content in line with the classic values is what should happen.

   TJourney
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Justbe wrote:
3 weeks ago
A lot of elements of TBC were originally planned for classic wow, as has been stated by other posters here.

I would be so down for Kara in vanilla, but not as a catchup raid, but rather as a post naxx raid.

I also don't think they should go to TBC after vanilla. I know a lot of people want that, but I would prefer vanilla to stay vanilla with added content later on. I love the TBC talent tree design and would love to see some form of implementation of that, or even new spells and abilities as well, like treeform form druid for instance. But level cap should not be increased, so how they would do this is up to them. If they want to make some paragon system like they had in diablo 3 sure, although I don't think that would necessarily be the right call.

More classic content in line with the classic values is what should happen.
I'd subscribe to your newsletter. I agree wholeheartedly.

So much of TBC's content was pulled from what would have been content patches in Classic (Black Morass, Karazhan, Opening the Dark Portal).

Coming from Warcraft III into Vanilla WoW, so much of TBC felt like a misstep - with Blood Elves and Draenei added to the existing factions in lieu of an Illidari Faction being added (as they had originally planned, to my understanding). The characterization of "heroes" from TFT in TBC felt jarring (with Kael'thas, Vashj, Akama, and Illidan all feeling like saturday-morning cartoon villains with a disjointed plot of building a new Well of Eternity on Outland). The myriad retcons of the Draenei (oh actually they are pretty, oh actually they are Eredar, oh actually the Sargeras stuff was like THIS) drew a lot of criticism on the forums up until release of TBC - and then was just kind of accepted by the community.

There were 12 content patches for Vanilla - compared to at most 4 in each of the expansions. At launch the developers pushed back against the expansion cycle of Everquest, and with benefit of hindsight we can see how every single expansion to WoW has utterly invalidated all previous content - turning it into nothing more than a hurdle standing in the way of "the (end)game content".

The original vision of Vanilla, before the insane reception and following the game found shifted that vision, was for a level 60 ever-expanding world of content.

Light be with you.
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TJourney wrote:
3 weeks ago
Coming from Warcraft III into Vanilla WoW, so much of TBC felt like a misstep - with Blood Elves and Draenei added to the existing factions in lieu of an Illidari Faction being added (as they had originally planned, to my understanding). The characterization of "heroes" from TFT in TBC felt jarring (with Kael'thas, Vashj, Akama, and Illidan all feeling like saturday-morning cartoon villains with a disjointed plot of building a new Well of Eternity on Outland). The myriad retcons of the Draenei (oh actually they are pretty, oh actually they are Eredar, oh actually the Sargeras stuff was like THIS) drew a lot of criticism on the forums up until release of TBC - and then was just kind of accepted by the community.
That's the thing man... so many things of TBC COULD have been amazing. I actually don't mind Blood Elves and Draenei as playable races. Blood Elves are a pretty cool race, and Draenei in WC3 were cool too. But having the playable Draenei being... whatever the hell they were in WoW was a massive misstep and I was so unbelieveably disappointed when I learned they weren't the "broken" draenei. Kael, Vashj, Illidan, Akama, these were all awesome characters in WC3/TFT but in TBC... I didn't even want to kill them. Like why? These characters are way too cool to kill and I have never viewed them as "evil" characters.

   TJourney
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Again and again with these adding things to Vanilla, It will not be VANILLA if we add things to it. I mean, we haven't even got it yet and people still plan on how to change it? Stuff like that makes me want to gank Alliance more then I already planned :mad: :mad:

If you don't like Vanilla for what it is, then play current retail, change happens there all the time, not always for the better but still.

LEAVE BRITTNEY(read classic) ALONE

/Mooo

   Selexin
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I wouldn't mind if they added Kara after Naxx is on farm by 50% ? of the raiding guilds. I think they should make it drop the same ilvl gear as Naxx but have new sets with different set bonuses, maby we could mix and match the sets and get some great results (tank druid set, dps sets for hybrids etc.)

It should not be a catch up raid, but on par with Naxx difficulty.

Ashenvale
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Erik wrote:
3 weeks ago
Again and again with these adding things to Vanilla, It will not be VANILLA if we add things to it. I mean, we haven't even got it yet and people still plan on how to change it? Stuff like that makes me want to gank Alliance more then I already planned :mad: :mad:

If you don't like Vanilla for what it is, then play current retail, change happens there all the time, not always for the better but still.

LEAVE BRITTNEY(read classic) ALONE

/Mooo
kek

The game isn't here yet so we're running out of things to talk about. Once the gates open and everybody is elbows deep into their mains, I think a lot of this 'what's next' conversation will die down for a while.

I'm looking forward to classic and want classic to remain just that for a very long time. But since it's not here yet, and we all know what it is, it's hard not to let the mind wander and think about what could come down the pipeline later on.

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If it wasn't there to begin with it shouldn't be there in Classic.

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Bulldozer wrote:
3 months ago
BC classic
That is a contradiction of terms. Classic = 1.x and BC = 2.x

 Blizzard Entertainment
Get the fuck off of Herod, you retards.
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More votes for maybe than anything else, so that tells me what I want to know.
Is Classic going to complete the seemingly impossible task of transporting us back to launch and letting people who missed it catch it this time around?
It sure as heck seems like it.

Is the content eventually going to get stale?
Yes.

People are on a bandwagon right now, that's fine, I get it, I don't want Classic+ right now either. But the concept of phases can be pushed further, Old School Runescape provided an excellent model that can be followed. We can actually have our cake and eat it too!!

That being said, the one ingredient that makes it work is player choice. Player's voices have to be the ones calling the shots for it to happen.
Right now, what are many, many players saying? NO CHANGES!
Those same players will want new toys to play with come a year after the last phase. When that time comes, if Blizzard is sufficiently capable of listening to their players, then we could have a whole new ball game on our hands ladies and gentlemen.

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The goal here is to replicate what it was, not what it could have been. However if this Blizzard project was intended to be an alternate version of how they would do vanilla in 2019, then I would absolutely say yes!

And they say Blizzard games don't have bugs. - Anub'arak
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