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Poll  •  Need BOE for AH : Okay?
Duskwood
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I personally think that you should only need what you can use and greed/pass on everything else.
Where does the argument “Need BOE for AH” come from and why is that > Personal upgrade.

   Jonas Griznak
#NoChanges
Alterac Valley
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Need for AH is just stupid. I really hate people that do this and hopefully my guild will kick people that do this.

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What? Who would ever be able to justify this?

Duskwood
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Well some people think its the right way to distribute loot.

For example, look in the comment section:
https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/com ... s/em0jwke/

1. Shouldn't everyone need on BoE?
2. Yes.

#NoChanges
Warrior Protection
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I'd always, every time, expect everyone to Greed on BoE stuff in general. If an item was needed then it was for a good reason that they could justify.

I'd never play dungeons with anyone needing on BoE to sell to the AH - that's totally whack and would lead to some pretty nasty disagreements.

Now... if baron rivendaire's mount dropped? That's obviously an 'everyone need' scenario. But for general BoE that could make some gold in the AH - I'd kick anyone needing on everything after the third roll/example of that kind of behaviour.

   IronBrutzler fendor
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I think it depends on who you are playing with. An example would be if https://classic.wowhead.com/item=14551/ ... handguards dropped while I am with my friends I would expect them to pass because its BiS for Warriors but if I was with randoms I would understand if people needed for AH because that could be their epic mount.

Duskwood
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Hunter

Yes, it could be their epic mount but it could also be a huge upgrade for a person.
If [Hurricane] drops, it would only be fair that the hunter gets it, not a mage. The game is not about gold, but progression. Needing loot others need for you to buy a mount is just plain selfish.

#NoChanges
Alterac Valley
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okay but there is a diffrence of people just need a BOE or if you communicate with you group but even then the NEED button is for NEEDED equipment not selling things.

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Duskwood
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Agreed @IronBrutzler.
Communication is key, but i just hope the standard for looting aren't needing on BOE for AH.

#NoChanges
Druid Restoration
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I think this mostly comes from BOE drops that are extremely valuable. For instance say a flask recipe drops and you have an alchemist in the group, or the Truefaith Vestment pattern drops and you have a priest in the group, should this person be allowed to have it even though it's potentially worth as much as an epic mount? Usually recipes like these are determined beforehand what will be done if they drop but this goes for a bunch of other items as well. Say you are doing a low level dungeon and Feet of the Lynx drop. Even though this will almost certainly be an upgrade to any low level hunter or rogue, should you give it to them when everyone knows these shoes will be worth possibly hundreds of gold to a twink? I don't like people that need BOE items "for AH" but I think there are some exceptions when an item is worth an absurd amount.

   Rakeem teebling Xinergy
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I also agree communication is key, and I think that is what it really comes down to. If everyone is understanding that if you NEED a BOE then you must equip it on the spot then I am all for that. But I am also all for NEEDING BOE's for the AH if everyone is in agreement. I think it just comes down to who is in your group.

Needing a BOE unexpectedly is just another word for Ninja'ing.

Skuggfax wrote:
5 months ago
Say you are doing a low level dungeon and Feet of the Lynx drop. Even though this will almost certainly be an upgrade to any low level hunter or rogue, should you give it to them when everyone knows these shoes will be worth possibly hundreds of gold to a twink? I don't like people that need BOE items "for AH" but I think there are some exceptions when an item is worth an absurd amount.
I agree with this and would use https://classic.wowhead.com/item=1935/assassins-blade and https://classic.wowhead.com/item=1482/shadowfang for example. These items are definitely great at the time but will be worth a lot more when the server matures.

   teebling
Durotar
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This post makes me happy, after reading some of the comments about this on /r/classicwow.

   Jonas Skuggfax Lassekaae
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Griznak wrote:
5 months ago
This post makes me happy, after reading some of the comments about this on /r/classicwow.
Yikes, reading through those comments certainly is scary. I really hope that mentality won't become widespread in Classic, seems like an awfully negative approach to have.

   Griznak Jonas teebling Lassekaae
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Griznak wrote:
5 months ago
This post makes me happy, after reading some of the comments about this on /r/classicwow.
ohhh god, hope the reddit folks only make 1% of the real playerbase. the twink argument is one of the worse.

   Lassekaae
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Communication is the thing. I have joined groups where one person is repeatedly running the instance for one piece of gear, and everyone knows in advance that if it drops its theirs, whether you also need it or not. Don't agree? Then don't join the party! Everything in Classic is about player dynamics and harmony.

Rogue Combat
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Lassekaae wrote:
5 months ago
Yes, it could be their epic mount but it could also be a huge upgrade for a person.
An Epic Mount is a huge upgrade for a person.

But I disagree, the roll system is for distributing usable loot such as gear or reagents, need for items you need and greed for items you're greedy for.

   Lassekaae
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Nah dude, always greed BoEs unless you actually need it... and if that's the case, say something before you click.

Druid Feral
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Only need when its a real long-term upgrade & equip itit spot on. All other arguments have a quite simple solution: press GREED!!

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Usually people will all roll need so no one ninjas the item, if a BOE drops and I see people start rolling greed and no one says anything I will wait until everyone has rolled greed before I roll greed, and if someone rolls need without actually needing (the item isn't for their class, etc) I'll roll need as well and if I win the item I'll reroll the item back out excluding them for trying to ninja.

If someone rolls need on a BOE and says they actually need it I want to see them equip it when they get it. A lot of people on private servers will roll need on an item that is an upgrade for them and sell it anyway.

Warrior Fury
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I'd like to start by saying im not fully committed to rolling need or greeding, but you are specifically asking for "the argument FPR "need BOE for AH"", so here it is.

Gold matters. Gold matters a lot. As a leveling warrior, I may not have many of my tanking abilities, I may not have a tanking set and I may not have a mount... A BoE item presents an opportunity for me to get gold to invest in an equal piece of gear OR something even more impactful like an ability I dont have access to or my mount. A group of random strangers will never be able to objectively determine who NEEDS an item the most. Due to the fact that gold is SO important in vanilla, a valuable BoE item is worth far more than its stats for any one individual.

Ninjaing. Just because someone can use an item, doesnt mean that they will. "Oh, but that will ruin their reputation..." Will it? Im a rogue with daggers in your group. Krol Blade drops. I roll need. You ask me to equip, I say "I fully intend to, I just havent trained swords". After I have left, you will never be able to prove I havent equipped it. I can always extend the lie by saying it is in my bank the next time we meet... Etc etc etc... Blizz already said they wont be resolving loot conflicts, everyone needing is a surefire way that no BoE can be ninja'd. A lot of players will risk staining their reputation for exceptional items...

Players are incentivized to need on items that they would prefer to sell so that they have guaranteed gain. People are inherently self interested... Lets assume I am in a group of 5 people. Im a good guy, I wont ninja, but Im still worried about #1. A Krol Blade drops. I would prefer to win the roll legitimately on a greed so I can sell it, but I dont completely trust the group AND I only have a 20% chance of winning... While the Krol Blade is a minor upgrade for me, I would still be incentivized to take the 100% chance of needing and equipping the item for a small gain instead of taking a 20% chance at the gold. In this circumstance, I am motivated to roll on an item that I dont even really want due to the need over greed system.

In most cases, the value of the gold from selling a BoE will be more impactful to a players progression than equipping the BoE item itself. This is especially true for leveling characters or characters grinding dungeons with very few exceptions. This truth can even be extended into raiding. Is it numerically better to give a single rogue in the guild a Tebuu's Blazing Longsword for a minor damage increase (1/40 players gaining a stat advantage) or selling that same sword for 4-5000g and investing in consumes for the entire guild?

Rogue Combat
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Stfuppercut wrote:
5 months ago
I'd like to start by saying im not fully committed to rolling need or greeding, but you are specifically asking for "the argument FPR "need BOE for AH"", so here it is.

Gold matters. Gold matters a lot. As a leveling warrior, I may not have many of my tanking abilities, I may not have a tanking set and I may not have a mount... A BoE item presents an opportunity for me to get gold to invest in an equal piece of gear OR something even more impactful like an ability I dont have access to or my mount. A group of random strangers will never be able to objectively determine who NEEDS an item the most. Due to the fact that gold is SO important in vanilla, a valuable BoE item is worth far more than its stats for any one individual.

Ninjaing. Just because someone can use an item, doesnt mean that they will. "Oh, but that will ruin their reputation..." Will it? Im a rogue with daggers in your group. Krol Blade drops. I roll need. You ask me to equip, I say "I fully intend to, I just havent trained swords". After I have left, you will never be able to prove I havent equipped it. I can always extend the lie by saying it is in my bank the next time we meet... Etc etc etc... Blizz already said they wont be resolving loot conflicts, everyone needing is a surefire way that no BoE can be ninja'd. A lot of players will risk staining their reputation for exceptional items...

Players are incentivized to need on items that they would prefer to sell so that they have guaranteed gain. People are inherently self interested... Lets assume I am in a group of 5 people. Im a good guy, I wont ninja, but Im still worried about #1. A Krol Blade drops. I would prefer to win the roll legitimately on a greed so I can sell it, but I dont completely trust the group AND I only have a 20% chance of winning... While the Krol Blade is a minor upgrade for me, I would still be incentivized to take the 100% chance of needing and equipping the item for a small gain instead of taking a 20% chance at the gold. In this circumstance, I am motivated to roll on an item that I dont even really want due to the need over greed system.

In most cases, the value of the gold from selling a BoE will be more impactful to a players progression than equipping the BoE item itself. This is especially true for leveling characters or characters grinding dungeons with very few exceptions. This truth can even be extended into raiding. Is it numerically better to give a single rogue in the guild a Tebuu's Blazing Longsword for a minor damage increase (1/40 players gaining a stat advantage) or selling that same sword for 4-5000g and investing in consumes for the entire guild?
Yeah this is a load of crap. You are needing for gold. Aka money. That is literally the definition of greed.

Silverpine Forest
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There should be a convention everything for gold - greed. Even the greed icon speaks for itself this button is for gold.

   Griznak Instinctz Lassekaae
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US Grobbulus
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Just changed my vote to yes. My memories from Vanilla are slowly coming back to me. I still say the rules should be whatever everyone in the party agrees on, but.... The argument for everyone rolling need on all BoEs is sound. I know it might seem like going for gold is just being greedy, so that you should roll greed, but the simple fact is that everyone needs gold in Classic. This isn't going the be BFA, where gold is handed out like candy. There is your mount, spell learning costs, buying items off of the AH, etc. ad museum. You will constantly be broke if you aren't careful. It also reduces oops-I-rolled-need, and other more subtle forms of ninja looting. It is also eminently fair to everyone. Just my two cents.

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