Alliance Mage 42 posts
1 month ago
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Whenever I watch a Vanilla PvP video on Youtube the comments are like ”omg that opponent/you played so poorly” followed by ”well, no one really knew how to play in 2005.”

So - if people know how to play now, what can you predict based on that, including what you can see happened on private servers? I mean, what classes/specs will fare better or worse in Classic wow compared to real Vanilla, talking both about PvP and PvE here? Example, powershifting for feral Druids never was invented in Vanilla (?) and so on.

Teldrassil
Alliance Druid 252 posts
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I quess we will never know until we see Classic in action.

They claimed I didn't but I did...
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I expect tougher competition for raids, bg's, open world, etc. I also would think Twink brackets will also see a difference in competition compared to how it was in vanilla, both in competency, organization and more players with BiS.

Discord Admin @ Classic WoW Guilds : https://discordapp.com/invite/HNT7UPq
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fury warrior will for sure be even more competitive than in vanilla. I expect raids to bring significantly less hunters than in vanilla, and only casual/non hardcore guilds will be rocking enhancement/elemental shaman (aside from guild/raid leaders significant others/best friends etc).

Guild leader: Epoch of Thought | Vanilla Thunderfury Warrior | Guildmaster/Maintank/Father/Husband
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Deleted User 281
Deleted User 281
4 weeks ago
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Most people will be bringing their experience both from retail up until now and/or from private servers as well. That is to say, competition will be no less fierce than it is right now, probably even fiercer as there are many who already played Vanilla, have prepared for it and just now how to level, farm,...do stuff more efficiently than back then
With that being said, I personally will start looking for a raiding guild as soon as we get an actual release date(!), which I am assuming is going to happen roughly one month before release.
At that point any guild/aspiring guild leaders that want to be successful in Classic will and should have a pretty clear plan of how they want to go about this, i.e. what classes, races, professions they need for their guild, a roadmap dungeons, gearing and raiding, etc.

Alliance Mage 42 posts
4 weeks ago
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So basically what you all are saying is that Classic will be a lot of min/maxing. I sincerely hope you are wrong because how I want to relive Vanilla is not with an e-sport community 10-20 years younger than me. Hopefully I can dodge the majority of these tryhards by not joining the very first servers but those that come after. Not saying at all that there isn’t a point in min/maxing or playing end game, but you know..there’s a lot of other things to take into consideration aswell I think in order for it to be a pleasant experience other than just a race for server first.

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4 weeks ago
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Yori wrote:
4 weeks ago
Most people will be bringing their experience both from retail up until now and/or from private servers as well. That is to say, competition will be no less fierce than it is right now, probably even fiercer as there are many who already played Vanilla, have prepared for it and just now how to level, farm,...do stuff more efficiently than back then
With that being said, I personally will start looking for a raiding guild as soon as we get an actual release date(!), which I am assuming is going to happen roughly one month before release.
At that point any guild/aspiring guild leaders that want to be successful in Classic will and should have a pretty clear plan of how they want to go about this, i.e. what classes, races, professions they need for their guild, a roadmap dungeons, gearing and raiding, etc.
We've already recruiting and have a solid roster about 3/4 of which have raided with us in actual vanilla or on private servers. We're shooting for 2 mc teams yay, the dream for TF farming). I think you are right on how it'll be in terms of competition.

Guild leader: Epoch of Thought | Vanilla Thunderfury Warrior | Guildmaster/Maintank/Father/Husband
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4 weeks ago
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Quaria wrote:
4 weeks ago
So basically what you all are saying is that Classic will be a lot of min/maxing. I sincerely hope you are wrong because how I want to relive Vanilla is not with an e-sport community 10-20 years younger than me. Hopefully I can dodge the majority of these tryhards by not joining the very first servers but those that come after. Not saying at all that there isn’t a point in min/maxing or playing end game, but you know..there’s a lot of other things to take into consideration aswell I think in order for it to be a pleasant experience other than just a race for server first.
You shoudln't be concerned at all. There will be plenty of semicasual/non hardcore guilds out there. That and the great thing about vanilla is you can play however you want. Unless your goal is the fastest route to the end you don't need to worry about minmaxxing at all until at least 1 year into classic's life span (AQ40 time). The server/world first race will go on but many hard core players won't even care about that. Most of us recognize the social aspects and the journey are what is best about vanilla. There are some that play a different game--the extreme tryhards--but they won't change how you have to play or your experience.

   Quaria
Guild leader: Epoch of Thought | Vanilla Thunderfury Warrior | Guildmaster/Maintank/Father/Husband
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Warlock Destruction
Horde Warlock 176 posts
4 weeks ago
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I think there's a lot of leisure room between "min/maxing" and full random/yolo/casual/etc.

It's not just about the server first race or anything. Some things will fly, other things won't. If by min/max you mean that you expect to find a raid spot as a SP/oomkin/ench/etc. then yeah, you are likely not. This is partly due to the limitations of the game (debuff slots, spell resistance etc.) but also due to the attitude you're carrying. If everyone signing up for a raid team was a "special snowflake" who cared more about individual fun than what the whole raid was doing then we wouldn't get anywhere. Sometimes you have to suck it up and do things that you might not want to do for the good of the raid - that's why knowing your class ahead of time is important.

So to sum it up:

  • if it's about spec, then yes - I reckon 90% of the players will min/max their spec
  • if it's about gear, then about 70-90% are going to min/max their gear - about 10-30% of the player base either won't know how to do that, won't have the time to do that, won't have the skill or luck to do that
  • if it's about professions, then about 50-70% are going to min/max that as well, there will be a significant portion of players taking professions for personal profits and fun, but the vast majority is going to be leveling professions which are in some form or another significant to them
  • if it's about race, I reckon about 20-40% of the players will make a significant decision (i.e. one they would not normally make) based on their race - most players honestly care about the visuals first more than anything (and then tell you how their favorite race is "objectively" the best), the passives can be extremely good but everything can basically be done by everyone at any point in the game (obtaining R14 as UD Warlock, PvE raiding as a NE priest, etc.)
  • if it's about about faction - only 5-10% of the players will min/max their faction, usually the tryhards who want to have an easier time in high-end raiding or PvP
And in my opinion, if you're better than average (top 50%) you're eligible for just about any sort of content in this game. Race/faction will never significantly hinder you, but professions/gear/spec definitely will.

   QuariaEdensongLne
Onwards, sons of perdition!
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Ashenvale
Alliance Paladin 57 posts
3 weeks ago
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I liked Nymis's thoughts, and would like to add a few observations of my own for PvP servers.

  • Spec: I'm not expecting extreme min/maxing on PvP servers. PvE, yes, but PvP...something tells me not everyone's going to want to shell out 50g for respecs all the time, especially when they're not a good farming class. For some classes you can PvP perfectly well in raid spec, even fantastically (hunter and warlock come to mind), but for the hybrids if they're healing in raids and don't want to be healing in BGs, I'm expecting some hybrid specs. 20 points in holy for paladins for example to get Illumination and then dumping the rest to get Reckoning or some such.
  • Class / Race / Faction: These go together in a lot of ways. There are likely going to be more shadow priests and warlocks on Horde than Alliance, simply because people pick their race and faction together often for these classes when it comes to PvP. Even PvP mage has some traces of this when I see discussions.
  • Professions: A lot more engineers than there were in actual vanilla.

Aside from that, no I don't think there's going to be too much more min/maxing. People talk big about someone else playing a Dwarf priest, but at the same time they also scream in BGs for someone to heal them and absolutely refuse to roll a healer themselves. It's easy to give advice when you're not the one following it.

You also have to keep in mind that Private servers have both PvE and PvP meshed together. A lot of the most hardcore min/maxers I know are PvE players 1st and PvP 2nd. PvE might become a min/max fest, but PvP? Doubtful.

Tirisfal Glades
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US Mal'Ganis
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Horde Priest 51 posts
4 days ago
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I struggled to figure out how to solo kill as a healing priest in Vanilla, now I have a much more thorough understanding of my class, how to be offensive, and I'm already planning my spec to synergize with my brothers class/spec so we can do world PVP like back in the day.

I also want to get into a raiding guild so I can re-live the glory days of being a top competitor in the PVE scene as well. I was the 7th Benediction/Anathema on Mal'Ganis, I'd like to try and replicate that as much as I can. It is hands down my favorite weapon in WoW and it's still my transmog to this day. (Should have been legendary!)

So I'm bringing an inherent knowledge of Vanilla PVP and PVE mechanics/experience and over a decades worth of lessons learned.

Dolamite
Undead Priest
<Extreme>
Mal'Ganis
November 2004
Arathi Highlands
86 posts
4 days ago
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There will be people who can do a lot of work just from game knowledge, like people knowing how to perfectly line up CC timings on a rogue and people who are really good at kiting as a mage or micromanagement as a warlock. It just comes from the amount of time playing the game, and less to do with private servers themselves.

But more broadly, the average player of retail today is far more skilled than the average player back in vanilla, that just comes from the game being out for so long. You can find all these youtube videos of players back then backpedaling and not playing even close to semi-optimally, to where a contemporary player would recognize some issues if they had to pilot the character.

But my last point is that a lot of super hype pvp videos, at least sometimes, are against opponents who have far less gear. This comes from the most efficient way to farm honor in vanilla being getting into a pre-made group, vetting members for being well-enough geared, for warsong gulch and stomping the pug teams of solo players who often don't have the same amount of gear. Not always the case, but it can be.

   Dolamite
Toshiok - Troll Mage, Warsong Private Server Socks - Night Elf Druid, Elysium
Toshiok - Troll Mage, Kil'Jaeden US retail Dimaga - Human Warlock Lightbringer US retail, guild: Animus Invictus
Tirisfal Glades
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US Mal'Ganis
51 posts
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Horde Priest 51 posts
4 days ago
4 days ago
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Yeah man, premades are the way to go! We use to rock and roll 6 min WSGs for hours on end. Lol

   Gensei
Dolamite
Undead Priest
<Extreme>
Mal'Ganis
November 2004
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