I healed as Shadow because I was too cheap to respec until Geddon. Dont let people tell you how to play

Yall high on some dope Tauren pipe if you think Warlocks are going to do enough damage in P1 to make it worth having a SP over another mage.

Nymis wrote: ↑

6 years ago

Yall high on some dope Tauren pipe if you think..

that dank Mulgore grass

The thing people have to remember when it comes to the brokens specs is, its not that the builds are not capable of damage or that they cant hit the damage you need. Most of the issues come from running out of mana mid or late fight and being useless until after that needing unfeasible about of mana pots, or not being able to pot fast enough due to cooldowns.

Boomkin is the prime example here. Balance druid damage is perfectly fine and able to raid. The issue comes from the fact you can not sustain that damage. Arcane mage is much the same, though with more mana, just not enough or sufficient enough damage to mana spells.

If your goal as guild is not to maximize everyones performance, then you dont have to care about it. Just wring as much from it as you can.

Dolamite wrote: ↑

6 years ago

I healed as Shadow because I was too cheap to respec until Geddon. Dont let people tell you how to play

At the end of the day, gear generally matters more than spec in Vanilla. So you can both get away with elemental or shadow or whatever by healing well in a raid and having good healing gear, but more to the point you can also provide your raid with a lot of utility. Don't let people tell you how to play, but also be willing to pitch in and show effort and people won't care how you spec.

Additionaly, people who want build a guild to raid MC have zero reason to be spec nazis. You can beat MC with half your raid being suboptimal specs. It's the easiest raid in the game. Hell, people cleared MC back in the day when they had zero clue how to play the game or what was optimal, let alone how to get the most out of the weaker specs, which many people who decide to play with a suboptimal spec nowadays are typically quite aware of.

teebling wrote: ↑

6 years ago

Nymis wrote: ↑

6 years ago

Yall high on some dope Tauren pipe if you think..

that dank Mulgore grass

Catch me dealing in Thunder Puff.

Gensei wrote: ↑

6 years ago

teebling wrote: ↑

6 years ago

Nymis wrote: ↑

6 years ago

Yall high on some dope Tauren pipe if you think..

that dank Mulgore grass

Catch me dealing in Thunder Puff.

We call it.... chewin' the cud.

Gensei wrote: ↑

6 years ago

Toastea wrote: ↑

6 years ago

My vote would have to g to bear tank. For all the cheers the warriors get, bears can tank a surprising amount of things even main tanking raids. Of course it has its limitations, but bears have been proven already to tank raids and what you cant main tank you can definitely off tank. Its something I tempted to do myself

I've played bear tank the last time I took a deep dive on a vanilla server and leveling and tanking 5 mans before and at 60 is super fun. You'll like it.

Wanna try bear tanking in raids too ?

Gacow wrote: ↑

6 years ago

Gensei wrote: ↑

6 years ago

Toastea wrote: ↑

6 years ago

My vote would have to g to bear tank. For all the cheers the warriors get, bears can tank a surprising amount of things even main tanking raids. Of course it has its limitations, but bears have been proven already to tank raids and what you cant main tank you can definitely off tank. Its something I tempted to do myself

I've played bear tank the last time I took a deep dive on a vanilla server and leveling and tanking 5 mans before and at 60 is super fun. You'll like it.

Wanna try bear tanking in raids too ?

Bear tanks are not just acceptable for raids, I would say taking a bear tank is optimal. If you want to do it, do it. The hardest part of bar tanking is trying to explain to stubborn raid leaders that you are actually an asset and not a liability. One bear tank is more helpful to the raid than another Warrior

Gacow wrote: ↑

6 years ago

Gensei wrote: ↑

6 years ago

Toastea wrote: ↑

6 years ago

My vote would have to g to bear tank. For all the cheers the warriors get, bears can tank a surprising amount of things even main tanking raids. Of course it has its limitations, but bears have been proven already to tank raids and what you cant main tank you can definitely off tank. Its something I tempted to do myself

I've played bear tank the last time I took a deep dive on a vanilla server and leveling and tanking 5 mans before and at 60 is super fun. You'll like it.

Wanna try bear tanking in raids too ?

I mean I had to quit before I could raid b/c IRL, but yeah I'd want to. He makes a great off tank because once his tank assignment in MC, for instance, is dead, he can dps or heal or whatever. Plus the crit buff is always great.

Toastea wrote: ↑

6 years ago

Gacow wrote: ↑

6 years ago

Gensei wrote: ↑

6 years ago

Toastea wrote: ↑

6 years ago

My vote would have to g to bear tank. For all the cheers the warriors get, bears can tank a surprising amount of things even main tanking raids. Of course it has its limitations, but bears have been proven already to tank raids and what you cant main tank you can definitely off tank. Its something I tempted to do myself

I've played bear tank the last time I took a deep dive on a vanilla server and leveling and tanking 5 mans before and at 60 is super fun. You'll like it.

Wanna try bear tanking in raids too ?

Bear tanks are not just acceptable for raids, I would say taking a bear tank is optimal. If you want to do it, do it. The hardest part of bar tanking is trying to explain to stubborn raid leaders that you are actually an asset and not a liability. One bear tank is more helpful to the raid than another Warrior

But that doesn't seem that hard a pitch to make. First off, I can't imagine most guilds will run as strict on comp as a lot of private server guilds. But then I think it's an easy case to make that a bear druid off tank works better than a 4th warrior. Extra combat rez, crit buff, another innervate. Does more damage when not tanking than a prot warrior who pulls out a 2her. And you don't have to spread tank gear out among 4 warriors, just 3. I dunno. Seems like an easy argument to win.

Gensei wrote: ↑

6 years ago

Toastea wrote: ↑

6 years ago

Gacow wrote: ↑

6 years ago

Gensei wrote: ↑

6 years ago

Toastea wrote: ↑

6 years ago

My vote would have to g to bear tank. For all the cheers the warriors get, bears can tank a surprising amount of things even main tanking raids. Of course it has its limitations, but bears have been proven already to tank raids and what you cant main tank you can definitely off tank. Its something I tempted to do myself

I've played bear tank the last time I took a deep dive on a vanilla server and leveling and tanking 5 mans before and at 60 is super fun. You'll like it.

Wanna try bear tanking in raids too ?

Bear tanks are not just acceptable for raids, I would say taking a bear tank is optimal. If you want to do it, do it. The hardest part of bar tanking is trying to explain to stubborn raid leaders that you are actually an asset and not a liability. One bear tank is more helpful to the raid than another Warrior

But that doesn't seem that hard a pitch to make. First off, I can't imagine most guilds will run as strict on comp as a lot of private server guilds. But then I think it's an easy case to make that a bear druid off tank works better than a 4th warrior. Extra combat rez, crit buff, another innervate. Does more damage when not tanking than a prot warrior who pulls out a 2her. And you don't have to spread tank gear out among 4 warriors, just 3. I dunno. Seems like an easy argument to win.

It isnt a hard pitch at all, it just comes down to the raid leader and if they are stubborn really. I am so close to just going bear tank and becoming the best damn offtank on my server just to prove a point to be perfectly honest. The bear tank prejudice is down right criminal

Toastea wrote: ↑

6 years ago

It isnt a hard pitch at all, it just comes down to the raid leader and if they are stubborn really. I am so close to just going bear tank and becoming the best damn offtank on my server just to prove a point to be perfectly honest. The bear tank prejudice is down right criminal

To be fair, of all the hipster specs there can be, bear is probably the warmest received. Bear, shadow priest, and the token enhancement shaman have much less of a faux pas associated with them. Everything else...yeah. There's an even steeper hill of public opinion to climb. But at the same time, that opinion exists for a reason in most cases.

Gensei wrote: ↑

6 years ago

Toastea wrote: ↑

6 years ago

It isnt a hard pitch at all, it just comes down to the raid leader and if they are stubborn really. I am so close to just going bear tank and becoming the best damn offtank on my server just to prove a point to be perfectly honest. The bear tank prejudice is down right criminal

To be fair, of all the hipster specs there can be, bear is probably the warmest received. Bear, shadow priest, and the token enhancement shaman have much less of a faux pas associated with them. Everything else...yeah. There's an even steeper hill of public opinion to climb. But at the same time, that opinion exists for a reason in most cases.

You make a very fair point. If you are a dedicated raider and actively try and find a home, you definitely will as a feral tank and from my postings it would seems I am being a bit dramatic. I think the reason it bothers me so much is because it represents the worst of vanilla. As we discussed I would argue taking a bear tank is optimal over another warrior. They have more utility, have the best threat generation in the game and bring higher DPS to the raid, and its one less plate tank you have to outfit. The downsides being they need more healing from your healers, you have a tank that downright cant main tank certain bosses due to mechanics and thats about it. It would just mean that your other tanks will have to be reliable and loyal to the guild.

But you will still get raid leaders that will refuse to take one and see them as a liability, because thats what they have been told and refuse to shake the notion that "only warriors can tank in raids"

Toastea wrote: ↑

6 years ago

Gensei wrote: ↑

6 years ago

Toastea wrote: ↑

6 years ago

It isnt a hard pitch at all, it just comes down to the raid leader and if they are stubborn really. I am so close to just going bear tank and becoming the best damn offtank on my server just to prove a point to be perfectly honest. The bear tank prejudice is down right criminal

To be fair, of all the hipster specs there can be, bear is probably the warmest received. Bear, shadow priest, and the token enhancement shaman have much less of a faux pas associated with them. Everything else...yeah. There's an even steeper hill of public opinion to climb. But at the same time, that opinion exists for a reason in most cases.

You make a very fair point. If you are a dedicated raider and actively try and find a home, you definitely will as a feral tank and from my postings it would seems I am being a bit dramatic. I think the reason it bothers me so much is because it represents the worst of vanilla. As we discussed I would argue taking a bear tank is optimal over another warrior. They have more utility, have the best threat generation in the game and bring higher DPS to the raid, and its one less plate tank you have to outfit. The downsides being they need more healing from your healers, you have a tank that downright cant main tank certain bosses due to mechanics and thats about it. It would just mean that your other tanks will have to be reliable and loyal to the guild.

But you will still get raid leaders that will refuse to take one and see them as a liability, because thats what they have been told and refuse to shake the notion that "only warriors can tank in raids"

Yeah. I think a couple things are going on here. I think warriors are still overall better tanks than bear druids. I think you're over-estimating how good they are. Of course, the bigger problem is not that but how much people think they're bad without having personal experience with it or just knowing better.

This is why I'm considering just trying to find a bunch of casual players to raid with. Not even thinking about how many times we raid a week, but just less nerds trying to hardcore raid Molten Core, the easiest fucking raid ever. I've played on a private server guild where the guild master demanded that everyone flask for MC. Yeah, flask up. So he was so confused when the warlocks started pulling aggro on trash. And then later confused why nobody in the guild had any gold. I didn't stick around.

I've gotten used to raiding in later expansions with a pretty relaxed group of people who try hard in raids and know what they're doing but don't take things more serious than it needs to be. Hell if that means rolling on an RP server and playing in a small, 20 man only guild, so be it.