Hi all! This is my first post on a WoW forum (ever) and was driven to do so by a dilemma I’ve had for months and now that Classic is only a couple weeks away was hoping this community could help sway me.

I’ve known from the beginning I’d play shaman, and I’ve spent months weighing the pros and cons of Orc vs Tauren and have come to the unwavering personal conclusion that I prefer warstomp over stun resist. I plan on utilizing this ability to maximize burst capability and make up for lack of stun resist with trinkets and consumables in PVP. I also prefer Tauren from a lore perspective and think they look better in end game gear.

HOWEVER, there are two things weighing down on my mind against this pick.

1) The movement and size of the Tauren are just killing me. They feel so sluggish and cumbersome and it’s harder to feel comfortable “in my own skin” running around as a Tauren if that makes sense.

2) I’m worried that the size of the Tauren will make me a quicker target in BG’s since something about human nature makes people want to click and attack the big guy first. I’ve tried to shrug this one off by telling myself I can overcome this with sheer skill but it still worries me.

So I guess my questions are: does anyone have experience playing Tauren that started out uncomfortable but by 60 got used to the movement and size and ended up loving it? And do you think that size is a disadvantage in BG’s?

Thanks in advance for your input :D

Zen wrote: ↑

5 years ago

1) The movement and size of the Tauren are just killing me. They feel so sluggish and cumbersome and it’s harder to feel comfortable “in my own skin” running around as a Tauren if that makes sense.

This is subjective and will be your reality. You could potentially use items to alter your aesthetic to help cope, but you will always be a tauren.

Zen wrote: ↑

5 years ago

2) I’m worried that the size of the Tauren will make me a quicker target in BG’s since something about human nature makes people want to click and attack the big guy first. I’ve tried to shrug this one off by telling myself I can overcome this with sheer skill but it still worries me.

You will be targeted first in many cases. You are easier to target so clickers will naturally click you (clickers are bad but clickers will still click). You are easier to see, so people will see you and attack you. You have a larger hitbox so you will be hit by more things.

Zen wrote: ↑

5 years ago

So I guess my questions are: does anyone have experience playing Tauren that started out uncomfortable but by 60 got used to the movement and size and ended up loving it? And do you think that size is a disadvantage in BG’s?

I have played as tauren and had a love/hate relationship with it the entire time. Being stuck in doorways and being unable to mount as far into areas because of your size is shitty. In a raid of 40 people, you stand out and that feels good. If your issues are primarily with the way it feels and looks, that is subjective and you probably will not get over it. Some people cant play gnomes because of the lower camera and being dismounted easier in shallow water. If you dont enjoy it, dont roll it because it probably wont get better.

Tauren are way cooler (of course is subjective).
Tauren are the people that helped Thrall and the orcs reconnecting to their shamanic heritage lost due to the demon blood.
Tauren have one of the coolest capital in game.
Tauren starts in Mulgore, one of the most beautiful zone in game.

Tauren are massive but of peaceful nature.
Tauren will always be welcoming to you, wherever you meet them in Azeroth.
Be cool, be a Tauren :-)

Hope to see you in Thunder Bluff!

And do not forget: Tauren anthem!

If you are going to play Enhancement, Tauren is great for leeway

Stfuppercut wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Zen wrote: ↑

5 years ago

1) The movement and size of the Tauren are just killing me. They feel so sluggish and cumbersome and it’s harder to feel comfortable “in my own skin” running around as a Tauren if that makes sense.

This is subjective and will be your reality. You could potentially use items to alter your aesthetic to help cope, but you will always be a tauren.

Zen wrote: ↑

5 years ago

2) I’m worried that the size of the Tauren will make me a quicker target in BG’s since something about human nature makes people want to click and attack the big guy first. I’ve tried to shrug this one off by telling myself I can overcome this with sheer skill but it still worries me.

You will be targeted first in many cases. You are easier to target so clickers will naturally click you (clickers are bad but clickers will still click). You are easier to see, so people will see you and attack you. You have a larger hitbox so you will be hit by more things.

Zen wrote: ↑

5 years ago

So I guess my questions are: does anyone have experience playing Tauren that started out uncomfortable but by 60 got used to the movement and size and ended up loving it? And do you think that size is a disadvantage in BG’s?

I have played as tauren and had a love/hate relationship with it the entire time. Being stuck in doorways and being unable to mount as far into areas because of your size is shitty. In a raid of 40 people, you stand out and that feels good. If your issues are primarily with the way it feels and looks, that is subjective and you probably will not get over it. Some people cant play gnomes because of the lower camera and being dismounted easier in shallow water. If you dont enjoy it, dont roll it because it probably wont get better.

Thanks for your input. Yeah unfortunately this aligns with my thinking and might explain why I almost never see Tauren shaman in BG’s or in PVP videos on YouTube (except for Wrex’s montage). It’s a shame though because I see so much talk about how powerful and diverse warstomp combos can be in different situations and it seems a lot of people agree Tauren is the higher skill cap race for shaman. But then you never see it :(

Erik wrote: ↑

5 years ago

If you are going to play Enhancement, Tauren is great for leeway

I’m actually planning on a 30/0/21 ele/resto hybrid. The synergy of war stomp with CL, Fire Nova, LHW, grenades and it’s use as an interrupt on casters and even being able to jump into ghost wolf for a quick escape (different spec of course) etc. just seems like the best way to take advantage of all of the shaman’s abilities. I just wonder if it outweighs the disadvantage of being so easily targetable in BG’s.

Zen wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Erik wrote: ↑

5 years ago

If you are going to play Enhancement, Tauren is great for leeway

I’m actually planning on a 30/0/21 ele/resto hybrid. The synergy of war stomp with CL, Fire Nova, LHW, grenades and it’s use as an interrupt on casters and even being able to jump into ghost wolf for a quick escape (different spec of course) etc. just seems like the best way to take advantage of all of the shaman’s abilities. I just wonder if it outweighs the disadvantage of being so easily targetable in BG’s.

Well you can see it this way.

Tauren let's you set up more burst as Elemental, and Orc let's you survive more vs stun classes.

Erik wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Zen wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Erik wrote: ↑

5 years ago

If you are going to play Enhancement, Tauren is great for leeway

I’m actually planning on a 30/0/21 ele/resto hybrid. The synergy of war stomp with CL, Fire Nova, LHW, grenades and it’s use as an interrupt on casters and even being able to jump into ghost wolf for a quick escape (different spec of course) etc. just seems like the best way to take advantage of all of the shaman’s abilities. I just wonder if it outweighs the disadvantage of being so easily targetable in BG’s.

Well you can see it this way.

Tauren let's you set up more burst as Elemental, and Orc let's you survive more vs stun classes.

True but with strategic use of the PvP trinket and FAP/LAP’s it almost makes orc’s stun resist irrelevant imo. Especially when warrior, rogue and pally are really the only stun classes to worry about.

Zen wrote: ↑

5 years ago

True but with strategic use of the PvP trinket and FAP/LAP’s it almost makes orc’s stun resist irrelevant imo. Especially when warrior, rogue and pally are really the only stun classes to worry about.

+ Tidal charm, grenades, certain talents and weapons (unstoppable force, impact, pyroclasm, blackout). @Stfuppercut can give you the full list if you wait around, it's very long. Also melee is problematic for 30/0/21 shamans to begin with because of your lack of hard CC, so warrior and rogue having the bulk of stuns isn't really good news.

If you want to see how much stun-based CC gets tossed around when PvP gets really sweaty take look at this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-kYglKZ1f8

Perplexity and Monkeynews, both private server PvP celebrities, would tell you Orc 100%. But if size is really the only problem you have with Tauren you could farm up some noggenfoggers or deviant delights.

Zen wrote: ↑

5 years ago

it almost makes orc’s stun resist irrelevant imo.

Yikes. Couldn't be further from the truth. Hardiness is the BiS PvP racial ingame definitively and will provide the best value overall. Almost every class has a stun, most have several. If we are shifting this conversation from an aesthetics consideration of taurens to a BiS conversation about PvP racials, you should be rolling an Orc with no close second.

This is especially true when you consider the reality of playing a shaman in raids is that you will be resto. Outside of resto you will swing a nightfall to justify a sub-optimal spec. Orc +axes makes the likelihood of a guild giving your the opportunity to nightfall, much higher.

Size will be a disadvantage for Tauren Shamans in PvP against classes like Rogues and Warriors because they can hit you from further away. It wont make Taurens Shaman horrible by any stretch; you also get the added benefit of being able to set up casts with Warstomp which a lot of Shamans love.

As to your question, if you dont love a race dont roll it

I mained a Tauren Druid for several years & loved it. There is a trick though, play a female. I tried playing a male Tauren DK once & good god was he huge. I had trouble fitting through doors & couldn't see what was in front of me for the ginormous shoulders. I never made a male Tauren again. As far as the leveling goes, I really like Mulgore, it is so open & peaceful. I think it is my favorite starting zone in the game. Just remember you are running at the same speed as everyone else, it just looks slow. I you want to look fast play a Gnome, those little dudes run like cockroaches.

Guest wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Size will be a disadvantage for Tauren Shamans in PvP against classes like Rogues and Warriors because they can hit you from further away.

Yea, people are really over-simplifying the leeway argument. "Tauren have big reach, big reach good for melee - big tauren mean big good stuff!" Its much more nuanced... Especially for a shaman that can easily frostshock kite... Adding leeway to that actually makes frostshock kiting a bit worse to be honest because the shaman will be easier to catch as a tauren. Playing as a tauren in BG's means you have a MASSIVE hitbox. You are incredibly susceptible to being hit. There is no argument against the fact that the potential impact of a tauren warrior with dedicated heals could be unmatched in certain circumstances... But when we look at the potential pros and cons to having larger reach overall, it is not as simple as "leeway and tauren range makes melee better for tauren".

Most of this misinformation stems back to the dualing tournament that was hosted on the beta. Leeway and extended reach is good in most circumstances for a warrior in a duel. People took this information and then surmised that being a tauren with extended reach is inherently good... Not understanding that the majority of your honor grind or ANY meaningful PvP will be team oriented. In a team setting, and certainly without dedicated heals, melee taurens will be gigantic punching bags that are easy to control and easy to kill for most classes. Especially when these taurens are getting snared by EVERY nearby effect, even if it was not intended for them.

Consider the tauren druid who spends his time in form carrying a flag. When he jumps out of form it is typically to CC or roll some HoTs on himself. Needless to say this druid is MOST vulnerable out of form but must shift to maximize his own survivability and to roll his heals or to CC a pursuing player... Every time this tauren shifts and is most vulnerable, his hitbox MASSIVELY increases and he becomes incredibly easy to catch. A startling reality for the male tauren druid in BG's.

This is all incredible information. It’s so funny I thought I had analyzed it from every angle but I actually never even considered the larger hit box as being a decisive factor in PVP (worth noting I will be a very hardcore PVP player). So it sounds like the conclusion is that even with as powerful as warstomp combos can be, the hit box size and ease of being targeted outweigh the advantages of having an AOE stun and guaranteed CL/LHW every couple of minutes even when trinkets and consumables such as FAPS are taken into account to make up for the lack of stun resist?

If you care about racials, there's no question, roll orc and don't think twice. Orc racials are definitively superior for pvp even before you start factoring in the size thing.

That said, I would suggest that you never choose your race based on racials. Choose your race based on lore and aesthetics. I know for you this doesn't help since you love the lore but not the aesthetics.

Personally, I will roll nelf or human and will be starting a petition to allow us to skin both Tauren and Orcs so that I can level leather working faster.

Zen wrote: ↑

5 years ago

This is all incredible information. It’s so funny I thought I had analyzed it from every angle but I actually never even considered the larger hit box as being a decisive factor in PVP...

Being a good player has a lot to do with timing and baiting out cooldowns. This is especially true for melee players who are often trying to bait out cooldowns while casters are typically trying to juke melee interrupts. Part of being able to dodge cooldowns or CC has to do with positioning and movement. A good warrior will try to bait out an early frost nova while jumping out of its range. While this will be challenging for a warrior due to leeway, it will be impossible for a tauren warrior to perform consistently. The tauren will just be hit by everything and will be able to hit everything. I foresee a high representation of Tauren Warriors played by streamers. Why? Because they have support. They have people who will heal them 100% of the time, both in the world and in BG's. If you have constant support, playing a tauren could be a lot of fun. For the average guy without that support, tauren will be a nightmare.

Again, we are trailing off quite far from the original aesthetics conversation which is entirely subjective. I am only going this direction due to the comment on Orc hardiness.

We had a good talk about hardiness here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1337&p=9426&hilit=hardiness#p9426

Zen wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Especially when warrior, rogue and pally are really the only stun classes to worry about.

My reply to many comments regarding the value of Orc racials compared to Undead racials. "Okay, so of the 3 fear classes Hardiness works better as a counter for 2/3rds of them and warlocks are underplayed... But how else will I get value from hardiness? Hammer of Justice (paladin), Bear Bash, Pounce (druid), Intimidate, Improved concus shot (hunter), Impact (mage), Kidney shot, Cheap shot, Gouge, Mace spec(rogue), War stomp (tauren - duels), Intercept, Charge, Concuss Blow, Mace spec (warrior), Blackout (priest), various items like tidal charm (mandatory for high level pvp) and unstoppable force - the premier 2hand welfare epic wielded by a ton of the community (and other stun based weapons), grenades (used by all serious pvpers and top tier raiders)... I mean the list goes on and on... 30% chance to resist, no internal cooldown... This doesnt even account for the other incredibly strong racials an Orc has (pending your class). " -Me

There are a stupid amount of stuns in this game. AND most of those stuns are on a short cooldown. Hardiness will provide more value than Tauren racials overall.

s1atan wrote: ↑

5 years ago

And do not forget: Tauren anthem!

Kodo are legit almost reason enough for me to roll horde. I won't, but it's close.

Back in vanilla I used a model editor to swap my mehanostrider model with a kodo model and ran around with a kodo mount. Nobody else could see it, but I could. A gnome on a kodo was an awesome thing to see.

I don't care much for PVP so a lot of the statistical/size stuff doesn't matter too much for me regarding Tauren. That being said, I love Tauren and have a whole bunch. I can't stop rolling cows.

No, you should not play tauren. Pandas are better.