I've only played since BC/WoTLK so I'm not really sure on this.

I've been watching a few videos on picking a race/class (atm, for me its shaman or priest), and a lot seem to praise specific races with a certain class. For example, it seems a Dwarf Priest is incredible due to its fear ward.

If I want to get into some end-game raiding/progression runs, and if I wanted to do an Ally Priest, will I get turned away from some guilds if I'm not a dwarf? Alternatively, if I want to roll a Shaman, it seems anything BUT an Orc is a no-no?

Soza wrote: ↑

5 years ago

If I want to get into some end-game raiding/progression runs, and if I wanted to do an Ally Priest, will I get turned away from some guilds if I'm not a dwarf?

There will be probably that one guild on each server (sometimes even more than one) that will give you not a chance if you don't have the perfect combination. The question is: Do you want to play in such a guild/raid?

Not just race, but also what spec you decide to use (e.g. Shadow Priest it's hard to get an invite; cause they need their priests to heal not dps).. Rogues are the most played class so it may be hard to get an invite as a rogue, cause all those slots are generally filled..

You should watch the following video as it explains everything about how to pick a class

Soza wrote: ↑

5 years ago

...will I get turned away from some guilds if I'm not a dwarf? Alternatively, if I want to roll a Shaman, it seems anything BUT an Orc is a no-no?...

Let me clear something up for you. There's a huge difference between viable, and optimal.

Viable would be rolling a priest and playing a spec that actually functions normally inside of a dungeon or raid. You wouldn't go 50/50 shadow+holy and expect to be picked up by a guild.

Optimal would be rolling a specific class+race combination that best suits your guild. In most cases it will be a Dwarf priest that is sought after over a human solely for the purpose of having fear ward.

So no, I wouldn't say you would be turned away due to not rolling a Dwarf.

As for the Orc question, well...
Thrall is a shaman, therefore every shaman must be an orc.

neofrag wrote: ↑

5 years ago

The question is: Do you want to play in such a guild/raid?

A very good point! I guess not. I can imagine the same kind of guild wouldn't exactly gel too well with my own playstyle (both in and out of game). I'll just have to hope the little less serious guilds are more forgiving.

Alliance_Hunter wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Not just race, but also what spec you decide to use (e.g. Shadow Priest it's hard to get an invite; cause they need their priests to heal not dps).. Rogues are the most played class so it may be hard to get an invite as a rogue, cause all those slots are generally filled..

You should watch the following video as it explains everything about how to pick a class

That's a great video. Thank you for that. I'm watching it now. I suppose I'd always go healing (either Holy Priest or Resto Shaman), so fingers crossed I should be able to find at least A space.

Nenski wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Let me clear something up for you. There's a huge difference between viable, and optimal.

[...]

As for the Orc question, well...
Thrall is a shaman, therefore every shaman must be an orc.

Haha. Guess I got to be an Orc now

And thanks for clearing that up. Puts things into perspective quite a bit more.

Yeah in the vid I just posted he says Fear Ward is not necessary (as good tanks dont need it), but it a big reason to choose another priest over you.
Rolling Dwarf priest will make finding a guild ALOT easier..

Soza wrote: ↑

5 years ago

I've been watching a few videos on picking a race/class (atm, for me its shaman or priest), and a lot seem to praise specific races with a certain class. For example, it seems a Dwarf Priest is incredible due to its fear ward.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1046

Make your own decision based on small racial/class synergies or base stat differences ^, make your own decision based purely on aesthetics, make your decision based on what your guild need... whatever you do you will get into raids so don't worry about it pal.

Soza wrote: ↑

5 years ago

I'll just have to hope the little less serious guilds are more forgiving.

Even plenty of the more progress-orientated guilds were quiet tolerant on that topic in the days of vanilla. Especially prior AQ40 & Nax.

Haha yea priests will get you into a good guild if you can play one with skill

teebling wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Soza wrote: ↑

5 years ago

I've been watching a few videos on picking a race/class (atm, for me its shaman or priest), and a lot seem to praise specific races with a certain class. For example, it seems a Dwarf Priest is incredible due to its fear ward.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1046

Make your own decision based on small racial/class synergies or base stat differences ^, make your own decision based purely on aesthetics, make your decision based on what your guild need... whatever you do you will get into raids so don't worry about it pal.

I'll have to check the stat stuff out! This looks amazing :)

Soza wrote: ↑

5 years ago

If I want to get into some end-game raiding/progression runs, and if I wanted to do an Ally Priest, will I get turned away from some guilds if I'm not a dwarf? Alternatively, if I want to roll a Shaman, it seems anything BUT an Orc is a no-no?

Race matters for PvP IF you are min/maxxing. Race has very little impact on the outcome of PvE content. Dwarf fear ward is super strong, but not even dwarves are mandatory. The reality is that PvE content is incredibly trivial by modern standards. The difficulty of amassing a 40 man raid and having 40 members online at any given time IS the challenge of vanilla raiding, not the actual content. Unless you are planning on joining Method for PvE or some top tier PvP premade group you aren't obligated to min/max your racial choice.

As said by @Nenski "there is a huge difference between viable, and optimal."

I almost feel like we should have a full thread explaining what optimal VS viable actually means and how it pretains to Classic. If you ask me for the "BEST _____", I will likely be able to make a case for the outcome that will net the highest value overall, but that wont be best in every circumstance.

Another thing worth pointing out...raids are FORTY people. Thats a lot of slots to fill and having a player is always better than having an open slot. Unless your in a "full clear MC in 1 hour" super try-hard guild, pretty much _anyone_ can raid if they show up on time and can at least play their class/spec

Ill put it this way...(these numbers are arbitrary, im just trying to make a point)

If you are lvl 60 and logged in, you already have a 30% chance to get into a raid. (Depending on the raid and your class, you might not even have to be 60! Everyone wants free pally buffs!)
-Add to that, "i know how to play my class/spec reasonably well", your chances just went up to 40%
-add to that, "everyone knows im chill and i get along well with my guildmates". 60%.
-add on top of that, "i have at least most of my pre-raid BiS gear", now youre taking 80%.
-add to that, "ive min-maxed my race/class/talents/items/gear/enchants to be as good as possible"....needless to say, thats going to get you right up to 100%. Hell, if youre THAT dedicated, you'll want to find a new, more hardcore guild anyway.

Imo race choice in PvE is imperative only if you're in the top raiding guild of the server and pushing for server firsts or something like that.

I like to see this kind of posts. Remember that there is room for everyone from casuals to hardcore players. You shouldn't feel forced to roll certain race/class combo. You yourself should know best what experience you want to have and you can decide accordingly.
I always laugh when I see someone trying to persuade me that you gotta roll dwarf priest no matter what you wanna do in the game (what a slave). For someone it surely might be the case as they wanna be very competitive and want to take any advantage they can. But I feel like I can contribute much as well without the fancy racials, you could see it as an additional challange.

Soza wrote: ↑

5 years ago

I've only played since BC/WoTLK so I'm not really sure on this.

I've been watching a few videos on picking a race/class (atm, for me its shaman or priest), and a lot seem to praise specific races with a certain class. For example, it seems a Dwarf Priest is incredible due to its fear ward.

If I want to get into some end-game raiding/progression runs, and if I wanted to do an Ally Priest, will I get turned away from some guilds if I'm not a dwarf? Alternatively, if I want to roll a Shaman, it seems anything BUT an Orc is a no-no?

I’ve rolled sub optimal race class combinations and in my experience it will not hurt you for raiding. There will be some guilds that want you to be the most optimal race class spec combination. But the rest of the guilds will take any race class spec combination with open arms if they show up and are a joy to play with.

I wouldn’t be having fun staring at a male troll’s posture the entire leveling process.

Please keep in mind that although PvE really shouldn't be a problem for playing what you want, other players who happen to be playing say, Human Warrior or Rogue (which just happen to be PvE best) may give you flack for not being your PvE best, even if you're playing a Human just like them and they wouldn't play Gnome Warrior even if it was PvE best.

Sometimes people will avoid playing a class just because they're already used to playing one where "Best" and "Aesthetics" are perfectly aligned and switching classes would mean they weren't. Strange, but I know some.

So be ready to fend off suggestions and comments that you should "be a Dwarf" or "why aren't you X?".

Linguine wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Please keep in mind that although PvE really shouldn't be a problem for playing what you want, other players who happen to be playing say, Human Warrior or Rogue (which just happen to be PvE best) may give you flack for not being your PvE best, even if you're playing a Human just like them and they wouldn't play Gnome Warrior even if it was PvE best.

Sometimes people will avoid playing a class just because they're already used to playing one where "Best" and "Aesthetics" are perfectly aligned and switching classes would mean they weren't. Strange, but I know some.

So be ready to fend off suggestions and comments that you should "be a Dwarf" or "why aren't you X?".

I think that's a really good point to make. I suppose, much like what a lot of the suggestions above are hinting at, the proof comes from the player's "skill" as opposed to what their race/class is.

I think all that stuff is stupid, you should pick what you want to play.
When vanilla was current when I selected my class/race I was not thinking about min/max -ing or what will be best at end game. Hell, i didnt even know what dungeons and raids were when creating my character. I selected a priest because i wanted to heal and help people and dwarf because i didnt want to be human. I guess i got lucky with a real good class/race combo but hey our best priest in our guild was a night elf and by alliance standards isnt that the worst race for priest for PVE...?

Either way our guild cleared all raids except naxx and our first C'Thun kill, I was a shadow priest.
I mean a raid with 40 people in it during current we had a few afks and a few no trys all the time.
You really only needed like 25-30 people working and trying hard to clear MC, BWL and maybe AQ40.

I also remember us bringing under geared alts or level 58s for tryouts as well.
Didn't stop us from clearing MC and BWL in one night.
All you need is the appropriate enough tanks, heals and dps to clear the raids.

Spec and Race, I dont think matters unless you are going for world first which will be what 1%-3% of the population in wow classic maybe?
I think skill (knowing how to play your class/spec/race) aka the player and gear is more important...

Sorry side note: we had this paladin who was full T2 and would go afk all the time (he was really young but good and got in trouble with his parents all the time) and one time he made a mistake and auto followed our Rogue in the suppression room LOL and you see this paladin run in like lerooy. Paladins are not sneaky!

Nyxt wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Spec and Race, I dont think matters unless you are going for world first which will be what 1%-3% of the population in wow classic maybe?
I think skill (knowing how to play your class/spec/race) aka the player and gear is more important...

I don't think that race choice is imperative, but it is a small factor. When we start going into the territory where we say 'Spec's dont matter', I think we've surpassed the threshold of what is reasonable. If your guild plans to roll with 4 resto druids, a druid main tank, 3 boomkins, and a shaman offtank, we've surpassed the point in which the guilds performance will be adequate enough to down content. Back to your point, Spec and race do MATTER, they just aren't imperative as OP was originally asking. 40 people is a lot, and there is a lot of wiggle room for poor race choice, but spec choice has a far greater impact on the throughput of your character than your race. I think that every guild can have a handful of terrible specs (suboptimal specs/meme specs), but its not realistic to say that specs don't matter, they do to a certain extent.

As with everything people seem to have an all or nothing attitude. Absolutism. Either everything must be min/maxxed to the Nth degree or none of these factors matter and you should choose your race/spec combo for entirely self interested purposes and still expect and invite to any and all content in which you wish to participate because the RPG elements of the game outweigh player performance entirely. The truth lies somewhere in between and the reality of your choices and what you place value on will change for each individual player and those they interact with.

Stfuppercut wrote: ↑

5 years ago

... 4 resto druids, a druid main tank, 3 boomkins, and a shaman offtank...

I accept your challenge...

Nenski wrote: ↑

5 years ago

As for the Orc question, well...
Thrall is a shaman, therefore every shaman must be an orc.

Screw you, all my shamans are Draenei!

Unless you're playing for a guild going for world first I really don't think it's going to matter.

Threkuul wrote:Another thing worth pointing out...raids are FORTY people. Thats a lot of slots to fill and having a player is always better than having an open slot. Unless your in a "full clear MC in 1 hour" super try-hard guild, pretty much _anyone_ can raid if they show up on time and can at least play their class/spec

Ill put it this way...(these numbers are arbitrary, im just trying to make a point)

If you are lvl 60 and logged in, you already have a 30% chance to get into a raid. (Depending on the raid and your class, you might not even have to be 60! Everyone wants free pally buffs!)
-Add to that, "i know how to play my class/spec reasonably well", your chances just went up to 40%
-add to that, "everyone knows im chill and i get along well with my guildmates". 60%.
-add on top of that, "i have at least most of my pre-raid BiS gear", now youre taking 80%.
-add to that, "ive min-maxed my race/class/talents/items/gear/enchants to be as good as possible"....needless to say, thats going to get you right up to 100%. Hell, if youre THAT dedicated, you'll want to find a new, more hardcore guild anyway.

THIS

Additionally, if you're a prot warrior, you have a 100% chance of getting into raids and getting first dibs on gear even if you have an IQ lower than your CPU temperature, because your guild is eventually going to need 8 well-geared prot warriors for the Horsemen fight and a prot warrior's rotation is only two buttons (sunder armor and... whatever the thing is that buffs the party)

It is hard to spot the difference if you pick the race for min-maxing if you are not in a group that is min-maxing everything. If you already are, you wouldn't be asking this question here, anyway. So it is a flavor. It is a character you are gonna play for a few years in advance. Pick the setup (flavor) that you like the most, that you will enjoy playing. Few percentage difference can be managed by smart play, smart gear choices & consumes.

The only difference to the "rule" would be an alliance priest. Dwarf really brings one unique, full and super useful raid ability to the table, it is a loss for the same time invested in building a character. However, even without the ward, you will be accepted as a good healer mostly in any raid anyway, due to the sheer lack of healers if you don't like the look & feel of Dwarfs.