I'm normally loathe to fuck with any of the in-game data or content. I also insist that Naxx 40 be the end-raid, and that players should not have access to any gear better than what dropped from Naxx. However, Blizzard has acknowledged that Naxx 40 was overtuned, and Kara was always supposed to be part of classic before it was abandoned and retuned for ten level 70 players. This suggests the possibility of restoring Kara back to level 60 and offering it as a "catch-up" raid, dropping better gear than AQ40 but being less difficult than Naxx. What do you think?

Teeb's handy flowchart:

Was it in 1.12?

Yes --> it should be in Classic.
No --> it should not be in Classic.

That's all I have to say really - in my opinion, no.

Interesting that you say Kara was intended for Vanilla and not BC though - where does it say this?

What the hell...whats this idea?!

*WARNING* Unpopular opinion *WARNING*

I would not be opposed to it, after a very long time of Naxx (maybe 6 months?) I would love to see additional content added to classic. Call me crazy but I don't want TBC, I would like to have the OSRS approach and continue on classic vanilla wow. I realize this is unlikely given how many people cherish TBC. This is just my opinion.

teebling wrote: ↑

6 years ago

Interesting that you say Kara was intended for Vanilla and not BC though - where does it say this?

Oh, I forgot to mention...

Ateish, which is obtainable from Naxx, teleports you to Kara. This only makes sense if Kara is supposed to be a place where you'd actually want to go because it has things for you to do.

I'm okay with Kara being added waaaaaaaaaaay down the line as new content. But the game itself needs to have multiple guilds farming Naxx until their eyes bleed.

I can understand the interest in this, but I didn't get to play a whole lot of Vanilla when it was current. I really want to experience it as close as possible to the original as they can make it. After Classic, if they want to spin it off in an entirely different direction I think I'd be cool with that.

I'm fine with them adding some extra content, but Naxx should always be where the top-end gear is found. Adding onto the vertical progression would eventually kill the game for new players imo. I don't really like the idea of catch-up raids either because that invalidates the older content for new players, which is one of my major problems with post-vanilla WoW.

The whole point of vanilla is that its more hc. Dumbing down and adding catchup, we might aswell add whole bfa expansion to Classic and call it Classic.

I love Karazhan and would love to see it in Classic. The soundtrack <3

If there ever is a Classic+ Kara would be at the top on my list of things that should be added.

I'm surprised to see so much support for "maybe".

I think it's important to discuss stuff like this if we ever want Classic to be more than a temporary foray into nostalgia land. Do we really want Classic to be a 2-3 year flash in the pan, and then we all go back to complaining about retail? Yes, I want it to start and end as close to Vanilla as possible. But I also wouldn't be adverse to them expanding on that and giving us additional content that is more in line with what we wanted to begin with, rather than the watered down experience many of us feel we received. Maybe instead of thinking about a relaunched BC server, the writers, creative team, and whatever scrappy group of developers they have working on this thing could say "Ok, we already covered the story in one way when we made BC the first time. This time, what if we did it like this?" The same characters could have different stories and conclusions. Maybe Cairne would roflstomp Garrosh this time(as he would have if it weren't for Magratha)? Maybe Thrall stops trying to be shaman orc jesus and never abdicates the position of Warchief to begin with? What if there's a schism in the factions and we end up with 3 sides to the conflict? There were a lot of ways things could have gone differently, and at a certain point I'd be ok with exploring some of them.

Some of this is wishful thinking, and some of it is hoping Classic isn't just a one-off.

Jon Bloodspray wrote: ↑

6 years ago

I think it's important to discuss stuff like this if we ever want Classic to be more than a temporary foray into nostalgia land. Do we really want Classic to be a 2-3 year flash in the pan, and then we all go back to complaining about retail? Yes, I want it to start and end as close to Vanilla as possible. But I also wouldn't be adverse to them expanding on that and giving us additional content that is more in line with what we wanted to begin with, rather than the watered down experience many of us feel we received. Maybe instead of thinking about a relaunched BC server, the writers, creative team, and whatever scrappy group of developers they have working on this thing could say "Ok, we already covered the story in one way when we made BC the first time. This time, what if we did it like this?" The same characters could have different stories and conclusions. Maybe Cairne would roflstomp Garrosh this time(as he would have if it weren't for Magratha)? Maybe Thrall stops trying to be shaman orc jesus and never abdicates the position of Warchief to begin with? What if theirs a schism in the factions and we end up with 3 sides to the conflict? There were a lot of ways things could have gone differently, and at a certain point I'd be ok with exploring some of them.

Some of this is wishful thinking, and some of it is hoping Classic isn't just a one-off.

I don't see a point of this but I am aware of size and numbers of conent available in Classic. This is one of my biggest problems, that there will be a point in life cycle of Classic that there wont be anything NEW to do.

I get that the fact that Blizzard wanted it in vanilla and I understand the desire based on that, but warlocks were also intended to have sufficient melee ability and that didn't pan out either. If they patched vanilla to give warlocks a melee spec that would be fucking awful.

So unfortunately I'm a no on this one.

Kara is my favourite raid. If it was added it would need to have minimal impact on progression, slotted in somewhere at the start, but what's the point.

Id happily wait for legit TBC for it eventually rather than break the cycle of classic.

If there was ever a raid that wasn't in Vanilla that should have been it would be Karazhan. The entire instance is a microcosm of Vanilla dungeons and raids in terms of variety. All of the different landscapes and boss types (and fights) were incredibly delightful and I wouldn't complain if it were added to Classic. Beside the fact that it is located in an area that is within Vanilla territory it doesn't feel out of place regardless of the time it was put in game to be playable.

TBC severs will be avaliable I guess. So there is no need for this.

Most definitely not. That would be changing vanilla, we don't want that

I also want to experience the game as close as possible to how it was back then, and even though I loved Kara, I feel like it’s place is in TBC.
Perhaps one day they might release BC classic, and perhaps revisiting Kara then would be less special even?

Vanilj wrote: ↑

6 years ago

Jon Bloodspray wrote: ↑

6 years ago

I think it's important to discuss stuff like this if we ever want Classic to be more than a temporary foray into nostalgia land. Do we really want Classic to be a 2-3 year flash in the pan, and then we all go back to complaining about retail? Yes, I want it to start and end as close to Vanilla as possible. But I also wouldn't be adverse to them expanding on that and giving us additional content that is more in line with what we wanted to begin with, rather than the watered down experience many of us feel we received. Maybe instead of thinking about a relaunched BC server, the writers, creative team, and whatever scrappy group of developers they have working on this thing could say "Ok, we already covered the story in one way when we made BC the first time. This time, what if we did it like this?" The same characters could have different stories and conclusions. Maybe Cairne would roflstomp Garrosh this time(as he would have if it weren't for Magratha)? Maybe Thrall stops trying to be shaman orc jesus and never abdicates the position of Warchief to begin with? What if theirs a schism in the factions and we end up with 3 sides to the conflict? There were a lot of ways things could have gone differently, and at a certain point I'd be ok with exploring some of them.

Some of this is wishful thinking, and some of it is hoping Classic isn't just a one-off.

I think that Old School Runescape is the best example of how to keep the old school feeling in the gameplay while still having fresh content patches released all the time. Before the Old School Runescape team started releasing these patches and just let the game run on it's on, you could see a clear downwards trend in the peak daily player population, The game started of with 70k+ peak but it hit as low as 10k-ish players peak per day after a year or two. Currently they are sitting on 100k+, which goes to show that there is a need for new content at some point down the line.

Pippina wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Vanilj wrote: ↑

6 years ago

Jon Bloodspray wrote: ↑

6 years ago

I think it's important to discuss stuff like this if we ever want Classic to be more than a temporary foray into nostalgia land. Do we really want Classic to be a 2-3 year flash in the pan, and then we all go back to complaining about retail? Yes, I want it to start and end as close to Vanilla as possible. But I also wouldn't be adverse to them expanding on that and giving us additional content that is more in line with what we wanted to begin with, rather than the watered down experience many of us feel we received. Maybe instead of thinking about a relaunched BC server, the writers, creative team, and whatever scrappy group of developers they have working on this thing could say "Ok, we already covered the story in one way when we made BC the first time. This time, what if we did it like this?" The same characters could have different stories and conclusions. Maybe Cairne would roflstomp Garrosh this time(as he would have if it weren't for Magratha)? Maybe Thrall stops trying to be shaman orc jesus and never abdicates the position of Warchief to begin with? What if theirs a schism in the factions and we end up with 3 sides to the conflict? There were a lot of ways things could have gone differently, and at a certain point I'd be ok with exploring some of them.

Some of this is wishful thinking, and some of it is hoping Classic isn't just a one-off.

I think that Old School Runescape is the best example of how to keep the old school feeling in the gameplay while still having fresh content patches released all the time. Before the Old School Runescape team started releasing these patches and just let the game run on it's on, you could see a clear downwards trend in the peak daily player population, The game started of with 70k+ peak but it hit as low as 10k-ish players peak per day after a year or two. Currently they are sitting on 100k+, which goes to show that there is a need for new content at some point down the line.

Yeah, I agree with this line of thinking. I am excited for classic to be just classic. But after a while it's going to suck that there won't be anything new to do. I'm not sure I want classic to be a simple museum piece that people get tired of and abandon over time. I would like to see it follow the OSRS model and start developing new content patches that stick to the framework of classic, adding new content without adding retarded new 'features'. Keep the gameplay true to the classic model, but add new content to do a few years in.

But to answer the question from the original post, I would like to see Kara added post-naxx. Not as a catchup raid, but on top of or next to it in progression. There needs to eventually be somewhere to go after naxx.

A lot of elements of TBC were originally planned for classic wow, as has been stated by other posters here.

I would be so down for Kara in vanilla, but not as a catchup raid, but rather as a post naxx raid.

I also don't think they should go to TBC after vanilla. I know a lot of people want that, but I would prefer vanilla to stay vanilla with added content later on. I love the TBC talent tree design and would love to see some form of implementation of that, or even new spells and abilities as well, like treeform form druid for instance. But level cap should not be increased, so how they would do this is up to them. If they want to make some paragon system like they had in diablo 3 sure, although I don't think that would necessarily be the right call.

More classic content in line with the classic values is what should happen.