Arathi Basin
User avatar
Discord:

teebling#5444


Bnet:

Teeb#2674


Posts: 691
Likes: 923
Orc Hunter 525 posts
5 months ago (Pre-release)
5 months ago (Pre-release)
 •  Unread

Nice summary posted over at MMOchamp about the latest findings from the Classic Panel. I will add the non-tech stuff to the FAQ thread.

They're releasing the raid content in small installations which is interesting. Good to get some solid answers about other things too.

Image

  • What's Under the Hood?
    • Database Data
    • Art Assets
    • Source Code
    • They kept track of everything in a repository that kept track of all changes made to the game.
  • This repository has been keeping track of changes since 1997.
  • First bug fix tracked - April 25, 1997.
  • Two versions of the game in database - live and development.* * The development data was created over the live version. Eventually they changed it so that the team could work on multiple patches at a time.
  • Art Assets include 3D models and textures which combine to in-game models.
  • In digging back into the database, they discovered that they only had art assets from recent expansions.
  • They found a backup with another backup folder that housed some old art assets.
  • The old WoW
    • Didn't run in the Blizzard Cloud
    • Had no battle.net desktop app
    • Had no login servers
    • Had no customer support access
    • Every bug, exploit and hack re-activated.
    • The team decided to layer the old version on the modern tech to solve this issue.
  • However, the new source code didn't know how to load the old data.
  • They eventually created a prototype that used the 7.3.5 client with the old data implemented. Combat wasn't quite there but you could still learn abilities from trainers and other long lost parts of vanilla.
  • When you ventured outside of areas unaffected by the Cataclysm and into zones that were affected you saw weird things like missing water, aquatic creatures on land and terrestrial creatures underwater. There was also armor that was untextured and so on.
  • Feeding the modern engine the 1.12 engine doesn't read perfectly. Certain object placements are off which leads to trees flying in the air and stuff like the shattered Loch Modan damn still holding back water.
  • The team had technology that could take the 1.12 engine and allow the modern engine to read it and place things correctly.
  • Classic has the full devotion of the Warcraft team.
  • The team was able to use reference data to find models in Classic that were not correct, such as colors of lanterns. Purple was used as a color to recognize wrong model colors.
  • The team set out to recreate the game as authentic to the original as possible.
  • Things like pet happiness and training was not able to be restored with this method. They had the data to restore them, however, and managed to re-code them back into the game. Rogue combo points being on the target, weapon skills, and critical blows all had to be re-coded back to how they were in vanilla.
  • They were able to find and fix model errors that caused corpses to stand.
  • The team even went back and restored the old character customization screen, including art.
  • They are not promising pixel perfect perfection, but they use their references side by side to get as close to the original as possible.
  • They were also able to fix lighting errors.
  • They are not done with the game yet. Certain things still need work including:
    • Capital cities
    • Dungeons and raids
    • PvP
  • Their design philosophy with Classic is to be as authentic as possible to 2006.
  • High priority is put on the integrity of social dynamics.
  • They want to avoid messing with the 1.12 data.
  • There will be no dungeon finder in Classic. This is to preserve the integrity of the social dynamics.
  • Typing /LFR on the demo opens the window but it is unusable and won't be in the final product.
  • Cross-realm grouping is not in Classic.
  • Flying is definitely not in Classic.
  • Achievements are not in Classic.
  • No unified auction house in Classic between Horde and Alliance.
  • The debuff limit was a technical limitation of the time but has NOT been lifted in Classic because it affects the 1.12 code and would cause changes.
  • Mail functions just like it did in Vanilla. No more instant mail.
  • You can take mail out of your mailbox faster as it doesn't affect anything.
  • The 2 hour period for loot trading between group members is staying in Classic.
  • Rogue energy regeneration is returning back to how it was in Classic.
  • AddOns that pilot your character's rotation are being restricted. They want to find a middle ground between the old and the new for AddOns.
  • The content release plan is to have staged content unlocks.
  • Molten Core and Onyxia will be there at launch along with Dire Maul, and the World bosses Kazzak and Azuregos.
  • The formal PvP rewards system will not be there at launch because they overshadow early raid gear.
    • Stage 2 - Blackwing Lair, Battlegrounds, and Zul'Gurub.
    • Stage 3 - Ahn'Qiraj, Tier 0.5, Silithus and the green dragons.
    • Stage 4 - Naxxramas raid, Scourge Invasions.
    • Silithus will include the opening of Ahn'Qiraj.
    These stages will launch when it is determined that it is time for them to happen.

   Syturio Jpy
Teldrassil
User avatar
Discord:

Faendor#4087


Bnet:

Faendor#1224


Posts: 273
Likes: 105
272 posts
Night Elf
Druid
Night Elf Druid 272 posts
5 months ago (Pre-release)
5 months ago (Pre-release)
 •  Unread

I'm just a little worried about the difficulty with 16 debuff slots, progressive itemization? and patch release itself. Kazzak and Azu and DM on release, Green dragons at AQ release?

They claimed I didn't but I did...
Duskwood
User avatar
Posts: 9
Likes: 6
9 posts
9 posts
5 months ago (Pre-release)
5 months ago (Pre-release)
 •  Unread

Faendor wrote:
5 months ago
I'm just a little worried about the difficulty with 16 debuff slots, progressive itemization? and patch release itself. Kazzak and Azu and DM on release, Green dragons at AQ release?
16 debuff slots is a good thing--sure it was a technical limitation back in the day... but it'd be a joke without it to progress through the raid content.

Regarding the itemization--they didn't really mention it. Only that high-end PvP rewards will come out with BWL as they're just as strong or even better according to them. That means no ranking at launch?

Dire Maul, Kazzak and Azuregos should be released in another stage and not with Molten Core and Onyxia. It's clear that it seems to be the preferable way of doing it.

   teebling
Teldrassil
User avatar
Discord:

Faendor#4087


Bnet:

Faendor#1224


Posts: 273
Likes: 105
272 posts
Night Elf
Druid
Night Elf Druid 272 posts
5 months ago (Pre-release)
5 months ago (Pre-release)
 •  Unread

I meant having 16 instead of 8. The difficulty will be easier with 16 at launch making MC and Ony very simple

They claimed I didn't but I did...
Elwynn Forest
User avatar
Guild:

KVN


Posts: 22
Likes: 31
Alliance 22 posts
5 months ago (Pre-release)
5 months ago (Pre-release)
 •  Unread

Didn't see this, but I posted similar stuff under the pinned FAQ.

Arathi Basin
User avatar
Discord:

teebling#5444


Bnet:

Teeb#2674


Posts: 691
Likes: 923
Orc Hunter 525 posts
5 months ago (Pre-release)
5 months ago (Pre-release)
 •  Unread

cable wrote:
5 months ago
Regarding the itemization--they didn't really mention it. Only that high-end PvP rewards will come out with BWL as they're just as strong or even better according to them. That means no ranking at launch?
I guess... no battlegrounds either?

Teldrassil
User avatar
Discord:

Faendor#4087


Bnet:

Faendor#1224


Posts: 273
Likes: 105
272 posts
Night Elf
Druid
Night Elf Druid 272 posts
5 months ago (Pre-release)
5 months ago (Pre-release)
 •  Unread

Loot trading...........................................................please no

They claimed I didn't but I did...
Duskwood
User avatar
Posts: 9
Likes: 6
9 posts
9 posts
5 months ago (Pre-release)
5 months ago (Pre-release)
 •  Unread

Faendor wrote:
5 months ago
I meant having 16 instead of 8. The difficulty will be easier with 16 at launch making MC and Ony very simple
Right. You're correct. 8 debuffs is what's up during Mölten Cöre and Onyxia. I genuinely hope they don't screw it up with adding it up to 16 during that time.
teebling wrote:
5 months ago
cable wrote:
5 months ago
Regarding the itemization--they didn't really mention it. Only that high-end PvP rewards will come out with BWL as they're just as strong or even better according to them. That means no ranking at launch?
I guess... no battlegrounds either?
We don't know yet. They haven't mentioned it. Only what you mentioned regarding the PvP rewards.

   Finesse
Westfall
User avatar
Guild:

Recently Bandaged


Bnet:

fin2340


Posts: 38
Likes: 16
38 posts
Alliance
Paladin
Alliance Paladin 38 posts
5 months ago (Pre-release)
5 months ago (Pre-release)
 •  Unread

The team was able to use reference data to find models in Classic that were not correct, such as colors of lanterns. Purple was used as a color to recognize wrong model colors
Love this attention to the small details!

Teldrassil
User avatar
Discord:

Faendor#4087


Bnet:

Faendor#1224


Posts: 273
Likes: 105
272 posts
Night Elf
Druid
Night Elf Druid 272 posts
5 months ago (Pre-release)
5 months ago (Pre-release)
 •  Unread

Finesse wrote:
5 months ago
Love this attention to the small details!
At the same time, they announce the existence of loot trading in Classic...

They claimed I didn't but I did...
Stonetalon Mountains
User avatar
Posts: 23
Likes: 9
23 posts
Alliance
Alliance 23 posts
4 months ago (Pre-release)
4 months ago (Pre-release)
 •  Unread

Faendor wrote:
5 months ago
Finesse wrote:
5 months ago
Love this attention to the small details!
At the same time, they announce the existence of loot trading in Classic...
What’s the big deal about this though? Why is loot trading so bad?

   Syturio
Undercity
User avatar
Bnet:

Syturio#2552


Posts: 176
Likes: 102
176 posts
Alliance
Alliance 176 posts
4 months ago (Pre-release)
4 months ago (Pre-release)
 •  Unread

Tol0th wrote:
4 months ago
Faendor wrote:
5 months ago
Finesse wrote:
5 months ago
Love this attention to the small details!
At the same time, they announce the existence of loot trading in Classic...
What’s the big deal about this though? Why is loot trading so bad?
At first glance people may not see it.
I suggest you and everyone watch this video:

ModeratorPrivate Message
Image
Blasted Lands
User avatar
Posts: 22
Likes: 20
Horde Druid 22 posts
3 months ago (Pre-release)
3 months ago (Pre-release)
 •  Unread

The actual solution for this is personal loot, not loot trading.

Arathi Basin
User avatar
Discord:

teebling#5444


Bnet:

Teeb#2674


Posts: 691
Likes: 923
Orc Hunter 525 posts
3 months ago (Pre-release)
3 months ago (Pre-release)
 •  Unread

Sequoioideae wrote:
3 months ago
The actual solution for this is personal loot, not loot trading.
Hey Sequoi welcome to the forums :smile:

What do you mean by personal loot?

Warsong Gulch
User avatar
Posts: 16
Likes: 16
16 posts
Alliance
Priest
Alliance Priest 16 posts
3 months ago (Pre-release)
3 months ago (Pre-release)
 •  Unread

teebling wrote:
5 months ago
[*]Achievements are not in Classic.
Awww... I would have loved to have achievements in classic.

Image
Teldrassil
User avatar
Discord:

Faendor#4087


Bnet:

Faendor#1224


Posts: 273
Likes: 105
272 posts
Night Elf
Druid
Night Elf Druid 272 posts
3 months ago (Pre-release)
3 months ago (Pre-release)
 •  Unread

But you do have achievements there. Every little gear upgrade, talent point, quest or special class quest or dungeon completed and much more. All of these little milestones along the way feel like you have achieved something worthy. Simply because you have to earn it.

   Quillboar
They claimed I didn't but I did...
Arathi Basin
User avatar
Discord:

teebling#5444


Bnet:

Teeb#2674


Posts: 691
Likes: 923
Orc Hunter 525 posts
3 months ago (Pre-release)
3 months ago (Pre-release)
 •  Unread

Nostra wrote:
3 months ago
teebling wrote:
5 months ago
[*]Achievements are not in Classic.
Awww... I would have loved to have achievements in classic.
For me Reputation will be kind of like achievements - after all you get titles and other rewards alongside the sheer satisfaction of reaching 999 exalted :)

Blasted Lands
User avatar
Posts: 22
Likes: 20
Horde Druid 22 posts
3 months ago (Pre-release)
3 months ago (Pre-release)
 •  Unread

teebling wrote:
3 months ago
Sequoioideae wrote:
3 months ago
The actual solution for this is personal loot, not loot trading.
Hey Sequoi welcome to the forums :smile:

What do you mean by personal loot?
thank you
Under personal loot the game chooses a number of players (based on group size) and awards them a random item for their spec, while everyone else receives an amount of gold specific to them. Mounts can also be won via this method from bosses that drop them. Like solo looting, the drops are retrieved by directly looting the corpse of the boss, with the chat logs showing who's won something. Loot from Personal Loot is tradeable to anyone for whom the item is an ilvl upgrade, as long as it is also not an ilvl upgrade for yourself.
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Loot#Personal_Loot

Warsong Gulch
User avatar
Posts: 16
Likes: 16
16 posts
Alliance
Priest
Alliance Priest 16 posts
3 months ago (Pre-release)
3 months ago (Pre-release)
 •  Unread

Without a doubt I agree with you, guys, it is a way to see the achievements, nothing more rewarding than having a title, an exalted reputation, or having the thunderfury equipped; but personally I had already adapted and I liked having them all described, organized and segmented in one section.

In addition, the way in which the system of achievements currently works has become a style of play for those players whose goal in the game is to have all possible points, why lose this type of players being a relatively simple addition to the game? I do not know if it's just me but I know a lot of people who are addicted to achievements. The so-called pokemon masters, catch them all.

I already see myself next year unconsciously pressing the keyboard shortcut (Y) several times.

Image
Eastern Plaguelands
User avatar
Posts: 253
Likes: 147
252 posts
Orc
Orc 252 posts
3 months ago (Pre-release)
3 months ago (Pre-release)
 •  Unread

I hadn’t realized that Dire Maul would be available at launch. I think we’ll see a much quicker market rise than if it wasn’t available at launch.

Image
Arathi Basin
User avatar
Discord:

teebling#5444


Bnet:

Teeb#2674


Posts: 691
Likes: 923
Orc Hunter 525 posts
3 months ago (Pre-release)
3 months ago (Pre-release)
 •  Unread

Nostra wrote:
3 months ago
Without a doubt I agree with you, guys, it is a way to see the achievements, nothing more rewarding than having a title, an exalted reputation, or having the thunderfury equipped; but personally I had already adapted and I liked having them all described, organized and segmented in one section.

In addition, the way in which the system of achievements currently works has become a style of play for those players whose goal in the game is to have all possible points, why lose this type of players being a relatively simple addition to the game? I do not know if it's just me but I know a lot of people who are addicted to achievements. The so-called pokemon masters, catch them all.

I already see myself next year unconsciously pressing the keyboard shortcut (Y) several times.
Yeah I feel you on this - perhaps the classic armory, or a 3rd party site like this will implement a faux-achievements style thing which categorises these ‘achievements’ in a form similar to retail?

Personally its enough for me to see that Reputations window greened up!

Teldrassil
User avatar
Discord:

Faendor#4087


Bnet:

Faendor#1224


Posts: 273
Likes: 105
272 posts
Night Elf
Druid
Night Elf Druid 272 posts
3 months ago (Pre-release)
3 months ago (Pre-release)
 •  Unread

I dont understand the logic behind defending retail achievment system.

   Tol0th
They claimed I didn't but I did...
Tirisfal Glades
User avatar
Guild:

Epoch of Thought


Discord:

https://discord.gg/U


Bnet:

LNE#1326


Posts: 49
Likes: 33
49 posts
Horde
Warrior
Horde Warrior 49 posts
3 months ago (Pre-release)
3 months ago (Pre-release)
 •  Unread

I'm fine with achievements being not in the game, but to respond to Faendor, I think they could be implemented without harming classic in anyway provided they didn't provide any ingame reward other than perhaps titles. Giving people their own client side minigame to play doesn't hurt the vanilla experience, though I suppose some people might get lost chasing achievements and thereby not participate socially or in guild matters, but I think those people would be a exceedingly small minority to the point it's not worth being concerned about it.

I'll never understand people who hate anything being added to classic that would be optional to participate in and wouldn't effect the gameplay or social dynamics of the game. Achievements, toggle-able updated graphics, and transmog (that could be toggled off by viewers) are good examples of things that could enhance some people's classic experience while having no impact on the purist's experience.

I'm more on the purist side of things, but I also want classic to be as popular and as appealing as possible while remaining the same game and social dynamic. Other people viewing updated models or getting updated about an achievement doesn't bother me if I can turn it off.

Whats your logic in attacking these things ?

Guildlead: Epoch of Thought | Vanilla Thunderfury Warrior | Maintank/Father/Husband/Disabled Vet
Twitter:The_Lne Twitch: The_Lne Bnet: Lne#1326
Guild site: https://Epochofthought.shivtr.com | Guild Discord:https://discord.gg/UqAVjJT
Teldrassil
User avatar
Discord:

Faendor#4087


Bnet:

Faendor#1224


Posts: 273
Likes: 105
272 posts
Night Elf
Druid
Night Elf Druid 272 posts
3 months ago (Pre-release)
3 months ago (Pre-release)
 •  Unread

The original idea was to bring vanilla experience, not vanilla +. This game was meant to be for the people who want to experience original wow. Now they want to bring to Classic even people from retail. These are totally different games with different audiences and they should not get mixed up together
(I dont mean that retail people shouldn't be encouraged to play Classic, quite the opposite rly, but at the same time you should not confuse those two titles). Once you allow Blizzard / Activision to add whatever they want, it will become a slippery slope to other deviations. Achievements are just a filler that brings nothing to the quality of gameplay. Even if you could personally turn it off, it would still be in there. I don't know man but I feel like I hate any Blizzard addition because of their aproach and philosophy behind it. Blizzard is NOT the company it used to be when they shipped original wow and people should realize that by now.

They claimed I didn't but I did...
Warrior Fury
User avatar
Posts: 170
Likes: 67
170 posts
Horde
Horde 170 posts
3 months ago (Pre-release)
3 months ago (Pre-release)
 •  Unread

Lne wrote:
3 months ago
I'm fine with achievements being not in the game, but to respond to Faendor, I think they could be implemented without harming classic in anyway provided they didn't provide any ingame reward other than perhaps titles. Giving people their own client side minigame to play doesn't hurt the vanilla experience, though I suppose some people might get lost chasing achievements and thereby not participate socially or in guild matters, but I think those people would be a exceedingly small minority to the point it's not worth being concerned about it.

I'll never understand people who hate anything being added to classic that would be optional to participate in and wouldn't effect the gameplay or social dynamics of the game. Achievements, toggle-able updated graphics, and transmog (that could be toggled off by viewers) are good examples of things that could enhance some people's classic experience while having no impact on the purist's experience.

I'm more on the purist side of things, but I also want classic to be as popular and as appealing as possible while remaining the same game and social dynamic. Other people viewing updated models or getting updated about an achievement doesn't bother me if I can turn it off.

Whats your logic in attacking these things ?
I'm not Faendor, but I can put my own view, which will probably not be any more agreeable.

One part is of course the preservation of the old days. A museum. Something that shows you "this is how the game was."

Which of course brings the argument that if it didn't exist in Vanilla, it shouldn't be in Classic. Which more or less brings me to my own view of the spirit of Vanilla. Just because you wanted something, it didn't mean you could have it. You were given the tools in this world, and that is what you had to work with. You didn't always have options upon options to turn on other options that were only visible for you.

It's more or less the idea of the game not adjusting itself to you, but you had to adjust yourself to the game. You did your best to survive the world and you didn't need options to look prettier, and neither did you need a list telling you what achievements were, you made your own achievements.

Whether the game will be released in 2019 or not does not matter, just because other games, or that current World of Warcraft has options, it does not mean Classic should have these options. If people can not stand it, or handle it, then perhaps the current game is where they should stay where all these options exist, and those who are up to tackle a world like Classic, can go for it, where the game is not catering to them.

Similar topics
to 'Classic Panel at Blizzcon summary'
Posts ViewsLast post