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4 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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Looking to make an alt, and I want to play a class I never had at max/high level back in the days, I've decided on shaman.

I'd like to play a tauren, but everyone rolls Orc for the stun resist, I hate that hardiness is so strong but thats just how it is. I don't like the idea of winning because I passively resisted their stuns, bloodfury isn't that attractive to me on a healing class.. That said, I love orc female animations, and animations are important as I'll be looking at my character a lot.

Taurens are interesting with higher hp, increased melee range(good for enha), and war stomp into a chain lightning + shock + fire nova is just deadly AF. The bigger hitbox prob sucks for ele/resto, but you could always chug noggenfogger/deviate to negate that.

I like tauren racials more, but also like orc animations more than taurens.. so I'm unsure what to pick, is orc really the be all end all for PvP?

How accurate was hardiness on privates compared to classic? The thing with hardiness is that when it fails to save you, you have nothing as an orc (wep skill irrelevant in pvp, bloodfury meh) compared to a tauren (pvp stam setbonus racial, longer reach, warstomp gibs)

I could make up for hardiness with FAP/LAP's, but could also acquire tidal as an orc to make up for WS.

Thoughts?

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4 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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You answered your own question. Hardiness is broken. Orc for PvP.

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4 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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Stfuppercut wrote:
4 weeks ago
You answered your own question. Hardiness is broken. Orc for PvP.
No I laid out the pros and cons for both, I'm curious how hardiness is compared to privates because it was broken on the private I played on (yes, that would be retro)

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4 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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Inxotep wrote:
4 weeks ago
Stfuppercut wrote:
4 weeks ago
You answered your own question. Hardiness is broken. Orc for PvP.
No I laid out the pros and cons for both, I'm curious how hardiness is compared to privates because it was broken on the private I played on (yes, that would be retro)
~30% stun resist is ~30% stun resist. I played on many blizzlike private servers (not retro), and I have two level 60 alliance toons in Classic and I can tell you, fighting Orcs feels the same.

If you are min/maxing for PvP you will roll Orc shaman. If you are choosing based on fun time stuff and cute aesthetics, that is a subjective choice and I cant really weigh in on your decision.

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4 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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Orc is the race of the gods.

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3 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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Orc for PvP, hands down, no matter what spec you are going.

For Elemental, Tauren can be fun to line up bursts with War Stomp (Hardiness still outweighs stomp though).

Tauren also look cooler

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3 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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Play the one that you think looks cooler and feels better to play, what race you choose is not going to decide whether you are having fun or not.


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3 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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Inxotep wrote:
4 weeks ago
Looking to make an alt, and I want to play a class I never had at max/high level back in the days, I've decided on shaman.

I'd like to play a tauren, but everyone rolls Orc for the stun resist, I hate that hardiness is so strong but thats just how it is. I don't like the idea of winning because I passively resisted their stuns, bloodfury isn't that attractive to me on a healing class.. That said, I love orc female animations, and animations are important as I'll be looking at my character a lot.

Taurens are interesting with higher hp, increased melee range(good for enha), and war stomp into a chain lightning + shock + fire nova is just deadly AF. The bigger hitbox prob sucks for ele/resto, but you could always chug noggenfogger/deviate to negate that.

I like tauren racials more, but also like orc animations more than taurens.. so I'm unsure what to pick, is orc really the be all end all for PvP?

How accurate was hardiness on privates compared to classic? The thing with hardiness is that when it fails to save you, you have nothing as an orc (wep skill irrelevant in pvp, bloodfury meh) compared to a tauren (pvp stam setbonus racial, longer reach, warstomp gibs)

I could make up for hardiness with FAP/LAP's, but could also acquire tidal as an orc to make up for WS.

Thoughts?
What type of PvP are you looking to do? (premade or randoms)

            
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3 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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Caperfin wrote:
3 weeks ago
Inxotep wrote:
4 weeks ago
Looking to make an alt, and I want to play a class I never had at max/high level back in the days, I've decided on shaman.

I'd like to play a tauren, but everyone rolls Orc for the stun resist, I hate that hardiness is so strong but thats just how it is. I don't like the idea of winning because I passively resisted their stuns, bloodfury isn't that attractive to me on a healing class.. That said, I love orc female animations, and animations are important as I'll be looking at my character a lot.

Taurens are interesting with higher hp, increased melee range(good for enha), and war stomp into a chain lightning + shock + fire nova is just deadly AF. The bigger hitbox prob sucks for ele/resto, but you could always chug noggenfogger/deviate to negate that.

I like tauren racials more, but also like orc animations more than taurens.. so I'm unsure what to pick, is orc really the be all end all for PvP?

How accurate was hardiness on privates compared to classic? The thing with hardiness is that when it fails to save you, you have nothing as an orc (wep skill irrelevant in pvp, bloodfury meh) compared to a tauren (pvp stam setbonus racial, longer reach, warstomp gibs)

I could make up for hardiness with FAP/LAP's, but could also acquire tidal as an orc to make up for WS.

Thoughts?
What type of PvP are you looking to do? (premade or randoms)
World PvP and random bgs

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3 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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Inxotep wrote:
3 weeks ago
World PvP and random bgs
I would suggest Orc.

            
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3 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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When it comes to Shaman I am always an advocate for Tauren. I mean, it's true what everyone is saying. Orc Stun Resist is OpOp. But it also random. But it CAN definitely save your ass against a rogue.

However, the worst matchup shaman has is vs warrior. If a warrior gets a hamstring off you and you don't have any FAPs or anything else to break the slow, it pretty much means you're dead, because shaman have no hard CC in their kits, they only have soft CC in slows.

This is why I like tauren specifically for shaman. Their racial (on a 2 min cd) fills that gap in their kit. It can be argued that you don't need the warstomp, and you probably don't, because there are trinkets and other items that can provide stuns.

Also, this might be a bias thing because I just am not too big of a fan of orcs honestly.

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3 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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While objectively Hardiness is a great pvp skill, you won’t feel it that much when that ally’s stun lands.

Meanwhile, warstomp gives a stun to a class that has none, even in talents.

I know i’m the minority but i say it’s a pretty even fight.

   Erik
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3 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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Go with Tauren tbh. For the War Stomp combos you mentioned (here's another one: War Stomp a Rogue or Hunter with Evasion/Deterrence and then hit Stormstrike :D)
Hardiness is great but as a Shaman, are people really going to be focusing you? Or are they going to be focusing that low armor Priest standing right next to you? Think about what stuns are used for. To lock down a kill target. You won't be the kill target because you're way too tanky. Hardiness is only useful if people are putting their stuns on you. Here's the kind of CC you will be receiving 90% of the time: Fear, Polymorph and (if you can call them CC) Viper Sting and Mana Burn. Because they're not going to kill you, they're going to take you out of the fight while they kill the teammate you're supporting.

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3 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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Vlostek wrote:
3 weeks ago
While objectively Hardiness is a great pvp skill, you won’t feel it that much when that ally’s stun lands.
And you also wont make note of non-events. When youre resisting ~30% of all the stuns on you (every class has a stun), you probably wont make note of that. You will make note of the 70% that do land and your confirmation bias will lead you to believe that Hardiness isnt worthwhile. And even though taurens are awful and even though warstomp is underwhelming, you will occasionally combo it well and get a big payoff. And even though that warstomp will only help you in a small fraction of situations compared to the constant, passive devastation that hardiness provides, most uninformed players will still favor a racial that they push because it Feels good. It Feels meaningful. It Feels rewarding. Even if its really bad in comparison.

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3 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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morbidmike wrote:
3 weeks ago
Go with Tauren tbh. For the War Stomp combos you mentioned (here's another one: War Stomp a Rogue or Hunter with Evasion/Deterrence and then hit Stormstrike :D)
Hardiness is great but as a Shaman, are people really going to be focusing you? Or are they going to be focusing that low armor Priest standing right next to you? Think about what stuns are used for. To lock down a kill target. You won't be the kill target because you're way too tanky. Hardiness is only useful if people are putting their stuns on you. Here's the kind of CC you will be receiving 90% of the time: Fear, Polymorph and (if you can call them CC) Viper Sting and Mana Burn. Because they're not going to kill you, they're going to take you out of the fight while they kill the teammate you're supporting.
Fights are far more dynamic than this. First of all, OP said he wants to do world PvP and random BG's. His team isnt going to be peeling for him... He wont spend much time in a traditional premade vs premade situation. Secondly, there is the plan - which is simply to vipersting the shaman and then there is the reality where a bunch of untrained buffoons are running all over a BG attacking everything thats red and throwing grenades all over the place. OP is going to spend 90%+ of his time in BG's with limited to no support (he will occasionally bump into a good player in the random BG scene), running around on a shaman. Hardiness will provide OP more value overall.

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3 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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Aestethics are your own choice and might have a bigger impact on long term satisfaction than you think. As shaman you will cast alot of instant spells and you want animations that look nice the 10.000th time. Leaving that completely out of the calculation is the wrong approach in my opinion. That's why I always opt for orcs.

In regards to usefulness: I love playing shaman and was very good with them in vanilla, played them a bit in TBC too. I duelled a lot, did mirror matches and played premade PVP with the most skilled players of my server.

The good news is, that all races are viable in their own way. But Orcs will always be a bit more, because of the RNG element that makes playing against you very unpredictable.
Sure that warstomp firenova combo is neat, but also is blasting very quick heals with berserking.
But let's say you duell a rogue or warrior and resist a critical stun: it wins you the fight and is always available, even if you are on healing the FC duty in WSG and they try to shut you down hard. Resisting two blackouts and a improved concussion shot is so huge and the more stuns they try, the more they could fail.

Don't forget that your reach as tauren works both ways and except for warriors who can sleaze some instant attacks on a someone who isn't paying attention to reach and leeway you cannot use it to your benefit alot.

Also keep in mind that WoW might progress to TBC and the 2.0 Bloodfury racial for shamans is pure madness: AP and Spelldamage based on your level. In Classic it's only AP, but it scales with the AP you get over strength - like from items but also crusader proccs - so it can be alot of bonus AP.

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3 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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@FTHforever Scatter Shot is a disorient

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3 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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My bad, meant improved concussion shot.

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3 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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I like tauren improved hitbox (don't know if it's just a feeling, but it seems to me they reach much further in melee). And war stomp is really useful imho, it's a free interrupt every 2 mins, not to be discarded :-)

Ish-ne-alo por-ah (May the days ahead be guided by the elders of long ago)


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3 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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fendor wrote:
3 weeks ago
I like tauren improved hitbox (don't know if it's just a feeling, but it seems to me they reach much further in melee). And war stomp is really useful imho, it's a free interrupt every 2 mins, not to be discarded :-)
They have longer leeway yes, there are one or more posts about it if you want to read about it on this forum if I recall correctly.

   fendor
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3 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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In my honest opinion, Orc all the way.

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3 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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Stfuppercut wrote:
3 weeks ago
...
It doesn't really matter how dynamic fights are. In a group fight, there just is no good reason to stun a Shaman. In big world PvP fights people aren't going to walk up to you and stun you. People are going to AoE as much as possible. And being able to stun 5 people at once in a group fight is WAY more valuable than resisting one stun. And in BGs it's the same deal. People aren't going to be focusing on you, doesn't matter if you're fighting inexperienced players or not. People want to see big numbers and the classes that throw around the most stuns (Warriors, Rogues) won't get to see big numbers by trying to kill a Shaman.
1v1 stun resist is very good, and arguably better than War Stomp (though I personally prefer the combo potential). But in group fights, stun resist is not going to help you because your biggest enemy will be ranged, magical damage and that does not tend to stun you.

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3 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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Oof

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3 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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morbidmike wrote:
3 weeks ago

It doesn't really matter how dynamic fights are. In a group fight, there just is no good reason to stun a Shaman.
What? It does matter... When you have an uncoordinated group of pugs smashing into eachother repeatedly there wont be designated CC or kill targets. OP will be stunned constantly. Joining pugs means that OP will regularly be the closest thing the team has to a healer if he is playing Ele. The typical group comp OP will be in? 9 DPS and OP.

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