Paladin Retribution
User avatar
EU Wyrmthalak
donator Posts: 81
Likes: 72
Human
Paladin
3 weeks ago (1.13.2)
 •  Unread

Hey all,

I would like to experiment with tanking some 5 mans around level 35-40 on my paladin. Now I am going over the options for talents and I was wondering which of those are considered good.

For example, I take it that Consecration is a must, so there are 11 points into holy. Is that a correct assumption?

Then, on the third tier of protection (the row of Blessing of Kings) all options look so good! Which would you guys pick? Is threat an issue for tanking? And does a better defense mitigate better than shield specialization?

Looking forward to your replies,
Pluuf

Druid Restoration
User avatar
EU Ashbringer
donator Posts: 38
Likes: 17
Horde
3 weeks ago (1.13.2)
 •  Unread

Normal builds go for Imp RF 3/3, Shield Spec. 3/3 and Anticipation 5/5, skipping blessing of kings, but I read somewhere something about spamming kings does threat so that might have changed.

I suggest you build teams around mana, classes who needs mana after pulls, because you will definitely need to drink a lot of water, and if you have casters, you will all drink after pulls so that makes it less inconvenient to have a paladin tanking.

ImageImage
Paladin Retribution
User avatar
EU Wyrmthalak
donator Posts: 81
Likes: 72
Human
Paladin
3 weeks ago (1.13.2)
 •  Unread

Interesting. That would mean that not only all options on the third tier are good, but I should take them all even! I'm curious what others have to add to this.

Building teams around mana seems like a good idea anyway. Adding too much of the same armourclass adds internal competition to the team, so that rules out warriors. Rogues tend to be better in single target DPS, a domain in which Paladin tanking seems to be less favourable. Thanks for your input!

Loch modan
User avatar
EU Razorgore
donator Posts: 188
Likes: 112
Dwarf
Warrior
3 weeks ago (1.13.2)
 •  Unread

@Holyfrog

   Redstain Pluuf Stfuppercut
Druid Restoration
User avatar
EU Ashbringer
donator Posts: 38
Likes: 17
Horde
3 weeks ago (1.13.2)
 •  Unread

Pluuf wrote:
3 weeks ago
Interesting. That would mean that not only all options on the third tier are good, but I should take them all even! I'm curious what others have to add to this.

Building teams around mana seems like a good idea anyway. Adding too much of the same armourclass adds internal competition to the team, so that rules out warriors. Rogues tend to be better in single target DPS, a domain in which Paladin tanking seems to be less favourable. Thanks for your input!
Protection Paladin's damage is actually pretty good, is just not very used because of it's mana problems.

ImageImage
Paladin Retribution
User avatar
EU Wyrmthalak
donator Posts: 81
Likes: 72
Human
Paladin
3 weeks ago (1.13.2)
 •  Unread

Good idea @Samaraner to mention some of the usual suspects :) I think you need to change the mention a bit in order for them to actually get an alert:

@Holyfrog & @Caspus

Edit: nvm, @Samaraner , it seems I just dont understand how this mentioning system works :p

Elwynn Forest
User avatar
US Old Blanchy
donator Posts: 100
Likes: 54
Alliance
Druid
3 weeks ago (1.13.2)
 •  Unread

Pluuf wrote:
3 weeks ago
...I take it that Consecration is a must, so there are 11 points into holy. Is that a correct assumption?
Yes this is more or less a correct assumption. While you can obviously modify your build and experiment, it is kinda expected that pally tanks will have consecration. It is really good for AOE threat, and especially good for dungeon leveling. I personally would like to see a pally do a deep prot to pick up holy shield, and pick up seal of command for better single target threat. But more or less, at least until 60 and you get the ability to experiment with builds more, consecration is a must.
Pluuf wrote:
3 weeks ago
Then, on the third tier of protection (the row of Blessing of Kings) all options look so good! Which would you guys pick?
In the end, pick em all up. But dont pick up kings until 60.

There is a funny meta that lets you spam Greater Blessing of Kings along side Improved Righteous Fury to generate a ton of threat. (90 threat per person buffed, 60 base GBoK + 50% from Imp RF = 90 threat per person, use it on the most populous class of the raid / group). I dont think you need to pick up Kings before you start doing this (60), some people do it with GBoM at 52.
Pluuf wrote:
3 weeks ago
Is threat an issue for tanking? And does a better defense mitigate better than shield specialization?
Yes-ish. Pally has no taunt, so it is critical to hold threat. Warriors and druids can rage stack but stopping the threat generation towards the end of the fight, and if someone pulls in the last couple seconds, just taunt it back to them. This lets them keep the rage and helps increase dungeon pace. No taunt = you cannot lose threat = you cannot stop trying to generate threat unless you are POSITIVE you have it until the end. As a result, you will want to go to great lengths to make sure threat generation is top and take every gain to threat you can. Most of your threat comes from holy damage. you will be wielding a mage blade and spell dmg is good. Mana (for the most part) = threat.


Below is my recomended talent order. But to make sense of it, I should explain the quasi pally taunt. This assumes most of your tanking is multi target dungeon pulls, and not single target raid bosses.

The quasi Taunt: If someone pulls the mob off you by over threating, you can stun with hammer, start auto attacking, and judge, target the threat puller, and bless with salv. (Dont forget to refresh seal) If you havent regained threat from that, then target the threat puller, and then bubble. Then go back to that mob and judge again. (8 sec cd on judge so you should be able to judge again before bubble is up) Bubble will erase threat from player, and hopefully you are second on the threat meters for that mob after 12 seconds of auto attacks, 2 judges, and after erasing threat from the bad deeps.

Also, to ensure that heals doesnt steal threat on adds, more or less always tank with ret aura on, and with consecration up. Down rank Consecration, main goal here is to keep a low baseline of threat on all of the mobs so heal threat doesnt pull off. Down rank Consecration gets better the more spell dmg you have too. This plus ret auro should do a decent job holding AOE threat without going oom instantly.

I personally would go with a build order of https://www.bobo-talents.com/?https://w ... GAINIOHnpt

   Pluuf
Paladin Protection
User avatar
EU Gehennas
donator Posts: 111
Likes: 146
Human
Paladin
3 weeks ago (1.13.2)
 •  Unread

Pluuf wrote:
3 weeks ago
Hey all,

I would like to experiment with tanking some 5 mans around level 35-40 on my paladin. Now I am going over the options for talents and I was wondering which of those are considered good.

For example, I take it that Consecration is a must, so there are 11 points into holy. Is that a correct assumption?

Then, on the third tier of protection (the row of Blessing of Kings) all options look so good! Which would you guys pick? Is threat an issue for tanking? And does a better defense mitigate better than shield specialization?

Looking forward to your replies,
Pluuf
Hey there. I leveled 10-60 as Protection, so I might be able to give you some ideas.

Consecration is absolutely a must in my opinion. Mobs in Classic at lower levels hit for so little you can really do huge pulls, and Consecration will enable you to hold aggro on all the mobs you pull.

For talent order I recommend something similar to this, which is identical to the build I used on my way to 60. After you get all these points you can put the rest wherever you choose. Either in more armor, in the ret tree, or go down Holy for Illumination:



I do agree with Beached that Kings is not something you should get until later. I picked the talent while leveling, but ended up never actually using it unless I was in a group with three or more Paladins, which is pretty rare.

Threat can be a problem. Paladins base threat generation is lower than Warriors and Druids against a single target and on top we dont have a taunt to force mobs to keep attacking us. Our saving grace is Judgement of Righteousness which gives you a solid amount of up front threat which is most of the time enough of a threat lead that just auto attacking with Seal of Righteousness up will hold the mob for the duration of the fight.

As long as the mobs keep attacking you, its often a good idea to save your Judgement for if you do lose aggro, as the burst damage from Judgement is most of the time enough to force the mob to go back to attacking you. If that fails, you have your Hammer of Justice as backup.

If you do large aoe pulls, then most of the groups damage will be aoe damage, and you can get away with just attacking with Judgement of Wisdom and Seal of Wisdom for mana regen, while letting Consecration and Retribution aura build threat on the mobs.

Shield Specialization is great for dungeons. Defense is not a stat you can really get, and Anticipation dont make a big impact. 2 defense per point is not a good use of your talent points so I ignore that completely. Instead, you are likely to get a lot of Redoubt procs when you keep doing big pulls, and having Shield Specialization reduce the damage by a few points here and there will provide a larger damage reduction than Anticipation will do overall.


Here are some videos I recorded while leveling, showing dungeons in your level range. Note that I had a leveling group all on voice chat for the Scarlet Monastery dungeons, so you should not be doing pulls as large as we were doing with random people. They should give you some idea how the spec functions, as well as the importance of Consecration.
SpoilerShow
Scarlet Monastery Library:


Scarlet Monastery Armory:


Scarlet Monastery Cathedral:


Zul'Farrak:

   Redstain teebling Stfuppercut Pippina Pluuf Selexin Erik
Paladin Retribution
User avatar
EU Wyrmthalak
donator Posts: 81
Likes: 72
Human
Paladin
3 weeks ago (1.13.2)
 •  Unread

Thanks for the amazingly detailed responses both to you @beached and @Holyfrog ! I will look into a nice onehander and shield combo right when I log back in and start working my way to 60!

Paladin Retribution
User avatar
EU Wyrmthalak
donator Posts: 81
Likes: 72
Human
Paladin
3 days ago (1.13.2)
 •  Unread

Hey @Holyfrog & @beached !

I got around to it to respec to Prot! My spec currently looks like this. I was having some questions regarding the leveling experience though.

Just now I tried to solo some murlocs, but the DPS is atrociously slow; I have Crest of Forlorn Spirits and Thermaplugg's Central Core as Sword&Board. When I run up to a mob I judge Seal of Light and start whacking with Seal of Righteousness. Every now and then I lay down a consecration, but on 1-on-1 fights its pretty mana intensive for only 120 holy damage.

You guys got any tips for solo improvement? When I'm in dungeons everything is just fine, I tanked Gnomer the other day and we didnt wipe at all :mrgreen: Only the Thermaplugg aggro reset really killed it for me.

Cheers,
Pluuf

Elwynn Forest
User avatar
US Old Blanchy
donator Posts: 100
Likes: 54
Alliance
Druid
2 days ago (1.13.2)
 •  Unread

Paladins are know for horribly crappy dps, even ret paladins. Ultimately, you will not match the dps / kill speed of most other classes.
However some notes:

  • Paladins shine by being incredibly difficult to kill. They play the long game well, and can take on more mobs on average than most classes. Kill speed will be friggin horrible, but survivability is way up there.
  • Definately solo / level with a 2h weapon. Get the best one you can, and always upgrade that sucker frequently. I would only use a 1h + shield when tanking, or if you over pull and are at risk of dieing. But 1v1 kills, definately the best 2h you can get your hands on.
    If you are constantly dungeoning as a tank, this shouldnt be too difficult to maintain good weapons. Your about gnomer level, go grab yourself:
    https://classic.wowhead.com/item=9459/t ... s-left-arm
  • Use the right seals, auras, and cd for the pull.
    For the most part, ret aura all the time. If the pull is huge, dev aura for the extra survivability. If one of the resists auras is beneficial, use those for the specific mobs.
    If you need the healing affect use light, but dont be afraid to use wisdom seal either.
    Dont be afraid to use the CD's.
    Hammer of Justice even if you dont need it is a great spell interrupt or mele damage reduction. More or less use this on cooldown
    Your bubbles are fantastic to use in order to get a big heal off.
    Hammer of Wrath is great (when you get it), also use that on CD.
  • In order to minimize downtime (Time drinking and eating inbetween pulls), dont try to kill the mobs with spells. (Exception is made for undead) Autoattack will be the majority of your damage. Yes, you will technically kill them faster by blwoing everything on cd, but then youll spend 30 seconds drinking after every pull. Solo leveling is about pace > burst.

    Maintain your buffs, use your 2h, keep your seal up and judge approprietly once per mob, and use the right aura for the pull. This wont nessecarily speed up kills, but allow you to never sit to drink / eat. Depending on the pull, you might have to pause for a holy light after the pull is done.
But as a prot pally, spend a lot of time in dungeons or groups. You will not be the damage hero, it will be painfully slow compared to other classes. You can make great xp/h tanking in dungeons with your spec.

   Pluuf
Similar topics
to 'Leveling Paladin Tanks - which talents?'
Posts ViewsLast post