Mulgore
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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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Hi All :biggrin: ,

I have been a Death Knight main since WOTLK, so with the release of classic, I was forced to reroll.

I decided on Mage, currently lvl 50 on Smolderweb (PvP).

While I'm having fun, it just doesn't feel like me. I made a Shaman alt and I've been having a BLAST. I'm seriously considering rerolling wholesale, but I want to know what I'm getting into before I commit.

Can someone give me a basic rundown on Shaman PvP? From what I can tell the main spec is Ele-Resto, which I'm not opposed to, but I think I would have more fun on Enhancement.


Please let me know!

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Hunter Beast Mastery
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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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Enhancement is very RNG based. Unless you get WF procs you get very limited. You can get kited easily too. However when you pop your CDs and get that huge WF procc it's an insane feeling. I don't think rockbiter is viable in PvP due to the downtime on the enemy player, you need to get those huge WF procs once you connect. (Personal experience)

Elemental and resto down to NS is the way to go, really strong if you know how to play properly. (Psn cleansing totems pre blinds etc). Also helps to have engineering to line up bursts, which you can do as Tauren with Warstomp. However then you lose the stun resist from Orc which is huge in PvP.

If you have engineering it's easily Orc to go, if not you can consider Tauren for lining up bursts but if there is a rogue stealthed around you and your orc friend, they will most likely go for you.

   Stfuppercut badgirls
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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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Erik wrote:
1 week ago
Enhancement is very RNG based. Unless you get WF procs you get very limited. You can get kited easily too. However when you pop your CDs and get that huge WF procc it's an insane feeling. I don't think rockbiter is viable in PvP due to the downtime on the enemy player, you need to get those huge WF procs once you connect. (Personal experience)
Sorry Erik but this is false. Enh barely depend on WF, especially versus mail-plate users. Typically, there's a switch to a sword and shield rendering WF almost complete null. Enh is very much equal spell casting and melee hitting, you are not playing as a warrior but more of spell slinging warrior. I know you said personal experience but this is so much common knowledge anyone who has played in the last decade or watch a youtube video would know this...

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Alterac Valley
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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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Well, I mained a shaman in vanilla and if you like the class you should definitely switch over.

Shaman's - like mages - are incredible in classic but compared to mages not limited to nukes. The basic design behind them is that you are a crossover of a medic, a soldier, a gunner and a engineer, because you literally can put towers down that shoots the enemy or have amazing utility.

PVP as shaman isn't a thing you could generalize at all in my opinion. There is alot that can work, from tanky frontliner / flag carrier over aggressive pockethealer to robust cannon. You should try some roles and speccs and see what works best for you. Also never forget Purge rank 2 and Earthshock rank 1, they are used alot.

Also find some good raid, go deep resto and get alot of different gear so you have options. The PVP sets are also really useful.

For me ele/resto worked best, could never leave my home without nature's swiftness. Especially once I got my AQ40 set I could delete every toon with less than 3k hitpoints in one single chain lightning into shock combo :smile:

Also just check this bad boy out : https://classic.wowhead.com/item=19344/ ... nt-crystal. Yes, play shaman!

   badgirls cigarettes
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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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Both elemental and enhancement are viable pvp specs.
Ele is oriented more to stable damage and BIGDICKCRITS when you get them.
Enh is based on RNG melting your opponent away. Similar to ret pali but much stronger. Crits are smaller, but there’s not much difference between one LB crit of 2.5k and WF proc crits of 1.2k each.

Tirisfal Glades
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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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I can only give you info about my leveling experience so far in classic as a shaman.

I'm level 40 right now, and playing as enhancement, in pvp, like others said, WF with a good 2H is proc based, if it procs you auto win any fight, since I now have Stormstrike I go in with an auto attack followed by stormstrike for double dmg and /roll for a WF proc, if i see a priest around my level I will avoid it, it's an uphill battle, too much resources for a 50/50.

Against mages it depends on the experience of the mage(I know it goes for all classes, but especially for mages), but you need to bait for a counterspell and then avoid the next slow with your spell eating totem. Very important to have Imp. Ghost Wolf against mages as Enhancement.

Rogues...if they know what they are doing, we probably gonna die, if we don't die and escape, grounding totem and keep frost shocking them until you see an opening.

Any other class is easy to win so far(lvl40), maybe because I played them all but shaman.

I will be changing spec into Elemental/Resto at level 60, which is the specs i most like.

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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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Caperfin wrote:
1 week ago
Erik wrote:
1 week ago
Enhancement is very RNG based. Unless you get WF procs you get very limited. You can get kited easily too. However when you pop your CDs and get that huge WF procc it's an insane feeling. I don't think rockbiter is viable in PvP due to the downtime on the enemy player, you need to get those huge WF procs once you connect. (Personal experience)
Sorry Erik but this is false. Enh barely depend on WF, especially versus mail-plate users. Typically, there's a switch to a sword and shield rendering WF almost complete null. Enh is very much equal spell casting and melee hitting, you are not playing as a warrior but more of spell slinging warrior. I know you said personal experience but this is so much common knowledge anyone who has played in the last decade or watch a youtube video would know this...
I'd like to disagree. I've never seen any enhancement (that are good), hardcast any lightning bolt or chain lightning. Maybe in a case where they are netted and can't reach target but still a 3 second hard cast while being interrupted will make that 3s cast into 4-5s. As enhance you need to stay connected to the target, stormstrike in hopes for crits and WF procs. In between you purge and play around with totems and shocks and heals.

I know you've made some guides etc but you are average at best and feels like someone who just reads a lot about classes and specs then post guides about them as if you truly really know what you are saying. You wrote in some guide that you are "known in the community for you shaman guides", what community? I've been interested in Shamans both retail and Classic and I've never stumbled upon any of your guides or posts before you posted it here. Just my personal opinion.

Also please refer me to a video as you say where you see above decent enhancement shamans shoot lightningbolts in other cases then maybe doing a sneaky pull/first hit on someone or when you are locked down.

Thanks

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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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Erik wrote:
1 week ago
I'd like to disagree. I've never seen any enhancement (that are good), hardcast any lightning bolt or chain lightning. Maybe in a case where they are netted and can't reach target but still a 3 second hard cast while being interrupted will make that 3s cast into 4-5s. As enhance you need to stay connected to the target, stormstrike in hopes for crits and WF procs. In between you purge and play around with totems and shocks and heals.

I never said you are hardcasting LB but most people who say the similar stuff like you do assume an enh shaman is a warrior and just depends on melee.

If I ever do state my opinion or make guides, it is usually stuff that has been spouted by the community for the last +6 years. I am literally bringing it to the lime light. Even today, my stuff is heavily analyzed and fits everyone else's experience/ideal but yours.

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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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Caperfin wrote:
1 week ago
Erik wrote:
1 week ago
I'd like to disagree. I've never seen any enhancement (that are good), hardcast any lightning bolt or chain lightning. Maybe in a case where they are netted and can't reach target but still a 3 second hard cast while being interrupted will make that 3s cast into 4-5s. As enhance you need to stay connected to the target, stormstrike in hopes for crits and WF procs. In between you purge and play around with totems and shocks and heals.

I never said you are hardcasting LB but most people who say the similar stuff like you do assume an enh shaman is a warrior and just depends on melee.

If I ever do state my opinion or make guides, it is usually stuff that has been spouted by the community for the last +6 years. I am literally bringing it to the lime light. Even today, my stuff is heavily analyzed and fits everyone else's experience/ideal but yours.
But I'm genuinely curious because you say Enh shamans are equally spell casting. What are these spells you are referring to?

   Vlostek
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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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Caperfin wrote:
1 week ago
I am literally bringing it to the lime light. Even today, my stuff is heavily analyzed and fits everyone else's experience/ideal but yours.
I dont want to derail the topic but your guides are often really terrible Caper. You often make "guides" about topics youre wholly uneducated on. This was recently the case when you posted a Dungeon Cleave guide to the cleave discord and the guide was removed from the community due to glaring inaccuracies. It was clear you hadnt done a single Cleave run. You paint yourself as an expert on topics but regularly are incorrect... Not even a month ago you were mentioning that Thunderfury isn't a tanking weapon. I dont want to turn this into a witch hunt, however your credibility is questionable at best. I truly believe that making outlandish claims that are incredibly inaccurate and then classifying them as "guides" does a ton of harm to the community and misleads the players who need guidance the most. Knowledgable players can read through a terrible guide and move on, but a misinformed player who is genuinely seeking answers could waste a lot of time and energy being mislead by one of your guides. I just hope that you take this criticism the right way and begin to put a bit more effort into your guides and stray away from topics that you dont understand.

   Redstain Erik FTHforever
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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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@OP this clip is a pretty good overview of what Enhancement Shaman is like in normal (non-premade) BGs:
Ele-resto is simply better. No way around it. Look at this video to get a good impression of what Ele-Resto is capable of in good hands:
As for race, Tauren is the way to go IMO. The added melee range for Enh is so juicy but War Stomp is where it's at. War Stomp is nice to keep people in your Fire Nova totem until it pops and the stun is just long enough to cast a Lesser Healing Wave or Chain Lightning. Those combos can really turn a 1v1 around.

   Tinyhoof
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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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Stfuppercut wrote:
1 week ago
I dont want to derail the topic but your guides are often really terrible Caper. You often make "guides" about topics youre wholly uneducated on. This was recently the case when you posted a Dungeon Cleave guide to the cleave discord and the guide was removed from the community due to glaring inaccuracies. It was clear you hadnt done a single Cleave run. You paint yourself as an expert on topics but regularly are incorrect... Not even a month ago you were mentioning that Thunderfury isn't a tanking weapon. I dont want to turn this into a witch hunt, however your credibility is questionable at best. I truly believe that making outlandish claims that are incredibly inaccurate and then classifying them as "guides" does a ton of harm to the community and misleads the players who need guidance the most. Knowledgable players can read through a terrible guide and move on, but a misinformed player who is genuinely seeking answers could waste a lot of time and energy being mislead by one of your guides. I just hope that you take this criticism the right way and begin to put a bit more effort into your guides and stray away from topics that you dont understand.
Terrible, really? holy cow your standards must be insane. Judging by your lack of specificity and resorting to say "terrible". I can imagine your problem is not with the quality of guides but the subject at hand of which it's talking about.

The highest form of contention, I usually get is perhaps on occasion, someone disagreeing with a specific talent choice or item of mine, which is a god send. You are definitely a first for me. At the risk of bloating my ego, I go into excruciating detail to the point of almost bringing up boring math. As I stated before much of what I say in guides has been talked about for years and has been the collaborative work of many people. In fact, I get messages from people telling me that I warn/caution too much and I should have a firmer foot because they've tried it and my data holds up way more than expected.

You seem to throw at me the typical vigorousity intended for players who make 1 paragraph guides and haven't touch a pserver at all or don't reach out to the appropriate community to possibly improve their work.

You seem to only be able to throw the dungeon cleave thing at me, even though I've explained it was a work in progress at the time and I found no longer relevant due to recent changes.

Yes, I remember the Tfury situation. I explained it with great detail and precursors, hell it was followed by a mountain of text of which anyone who didn't have it out for me would understand where I am coming from. It was merely a suggestion and not an enforceable action to always follow. I NEVER said Tfury isn't a tanking weapon, that's a strawman.

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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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Caperfin wrote:
1 week ago
Terrible, really? holy cow your standards must be insane.
Again, I dont want to derail the topic but if we start at the top of your dungeon cleaving guide and go to the bottom, everything is wrong. The comps are wrong. The strategies are wrong. Everything is wrong. The entire guide is factually incorrect. None of it was tested. All of it was terrible.

I believe you recommended resto druids as a healer and didnt even mention priests??? The guide was terrible in every sense of the word.

You churn out low quality guides and dont put in any effort or testing. It hurts the community.

   Erik FTHforever
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6 days ago (1.13.2)
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FTHforever wrote:
1 week ago
Shaman's - like mages - are incredible in classic but compared to mages not limited to nukes. The basic design behind them is that you are a crossover of a medic, a soldier, a gunner and a engineer, because you literally can put towers down that shoots the enemy or have amazing utility.
this is how I always viewed it, as well. Although, it's merely my opinion and I don't have any TRUE TRUE experience with the class. <3

Badgirls - Level 47 Human Rogue - US Incendius PvP
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6 days ago (1.13.2)
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Stfuppercut wrote:
1 week ago
Again, I dont want to derail the topic but if we start at the top of your dungeon cleaving guide and go to the bottom, everything is wrong. The comps are wrong. The strategies are wrong. Everything is wrong. The entire guide is factually incorrect. None of it was tested. All of it was terrible.

I believe you recommended resto druids as a healer and didnt even mention priests??? The guide was terrible in every sense of the word.

You churn out low quality guides and dont put in any effort or testing. It hurts the community.
So your REAL issue is over 1 guide. Which was a work in progress (stated in the guide) and was before the dungeon cleave meta discovery and is somewhat irrelevant anymore, nice. That's a really a good "gotcha".

Low quality, huh? did I not pass your 15 mandatory page guide quota? You seem to be forgetting my guides are a collective body of work from many people and multiple years of experience and research all combined into 1 guide.

I am actually happy your REAL distress is over a few sentences (which I cant edit anymore) and from a leveling guide no less...
That was posted only once off-platform with the comment "looking for feedback".

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5 days ago (1.13.2)
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I genuinely appreciate the discussion, but I think the conversation relating to Caperfin's guides probably warrants a new thread at this point.

Thank you to all who replied! I think I will end up getting my mage to max (he is only 8 levels away) for gold if nothing else, but I will definitely be getting my shaman to max level!

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Mulgore
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5 days ago (1.13.2)
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FTHforever wrote:
1 week ago
Well, I mained a shaman in vanilla and if you like the class you should definitely switch over.

Shaman's - like mages - are incredible in classic but compared to mages not limited to nukes. The basic design behind them is that you are a crossover of a medic, a soldier, a gunner and a engineer, because you literally can put towers down that shoots the enemy or have amazing utility.
I really enjoyed this reply!

One thing I really like about Shaman is their utility, I feel like they have a totem or ability for every situation, and that sort of usefulness is really appealing.

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Alterac Valley
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5 days ago (1.13.2)
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cigarettes wrote:
5 days ago
One thing I really like about Shaman is their utility, I feel like they have a totem or ability for every situation, and that sort of usefulness is really appealing.
And that's getting even better in TBC :cool:

   cigarettes
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