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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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Hello Folks

I am mentally wasted because i can not figure out which of the classes i should play.

Atm i have a 32 Orc Hunter and a 20 UD Mage. Leveling the Hunter is super fun but the Mage is not.
My goals are Duels, 1v1, World PvP an BGs. I dont care about PvE dps or such things. I will be raiding only to get gear tho.
Please, can an experienced PvP player help me if i should go the long grind with the mage or stick to my hunter?

I really want to play the better class in PvP at 60.
It does not matter which class is better being fresh 60 because i want to have a strong class for whole classic.

I have no time to play both.
Thank you in advance!

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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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"My goals are Duels, 1v1, World PvP an BGs."

In their current state, hunters are broken. Mages are strong for all of these. Hunters are currently not strong. If you want to be competitive in PvP, dont roll a hunter until they are fixed, and even then... Maybe not. The "fixed" version wont be as strong as hunters were for the majority of vanilla and will be a shell of what hunters were on private.

   Ajs
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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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If you wanna play PvP, mage is good way.

   Ajs
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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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I was into mage from the Beginning but got bored because i have to drink after each Mob. So i went hunter but i guess 60 is what matters and i have to bite the bullet

Thank you

Darnassus
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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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I will do Hunter in 60 PvP. All these people say "This class is strongest", or "that class is stronger". It's so far from the truth as possibly can come. Truth of the matter is, the best player wins. You get gadgets to deal with your flaws. You use items in vanilla to be strong. Truth of the matter is, skill will always have priority over inherent class strength.

Edit: To all the people saying "mage" - mfw Free Action Potion/Spider Belt

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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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I love hunter because with cheetah, concussive shot, huntard's mark, flares, humanoid tracking, extra long range, etc you essentially run as the scout for group pvp, especially if you are talking wpvp. I just found that role very enjoyable. It's fun finding the enemy trying to sneak around you, exposing them, then running them down and snaring them for the rest of the pack to catch up and finish the kill. No class does that quite as effectively as a hunter. It is also a class which, like rogue, feels like you have tools to deal with every situation.

Telvaine - Night Elf Hunter
Raikkan- Human Warlock
Keatts- Human Rogue

-Savages of Grobbulus, prepare yourselves for slaughter.
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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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Telvaine wrote:
2 weeks ago
huntard's mark
:lol:

Warrior Fury
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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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Hunter wrote:
2 weeks ago
I will do Hunter in 60 PvP. All these people say "This class is strongest", or "that class is stronger". It's so far from the truth as possibly can come. Truth of the matter is, the best player wins.
No. This is inaccurate. This is not how vanilla PvP works. This is how retail PvP works. Vanilla classes are very rock, paper, scissors. Certain classes will have an advantage in some circumstances and be at a disadvantage in others. In PvP that matters, group PvP in BG's, certain specs thrive and others are completely useless. Gear matters. Gear matters a lot. At a certain gear threshold, no amount of skill will overcome gear. I am currently walking around with epic weapons and smashing people. I kill others in seconds. This is not because im a skillful player, its due to the massive gear disparity between the hardcore users and the fresh 60s. This disparity grows larger and larger as vanilla continues.
Hunter wrote:
2 weeks ago
You get gadgets to deal with your flaws. You use items in vanilla to be strong. Truth of the matter is, skill will always have priority over inherent class strength.
Right, but when you are assessing a classes strengths or weaknesses you are assuming an equally competent opponent with access to the same trinkets that you have. In this circumstance, with how weak hunters are in vanilla, a mage will provide more value more often.

Without leeway, without shared DR's, without spell batching and without the plethora of hunter bugs, hunters WERE incredibly strong. In Classic, they are not. They are weak. Can a hunter beat other classes? Of course. But when we are talking about competitive PvP on a skilled premade, I would not recommend playing a hunter.

Look at my post history. I am a hunter main... Always have been. Currently have a level 50 hunter in Classic and will spend more time on this than any other toon, BUT, objectively, hunters are not doing well.

Darnassus
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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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Stfuppercut wrote:
2 weeks ago
Hunter wrote:
2 weeks ago
I will do Hunter in 60 PvP. All these people say "This class is strongest", or "that class is stronger". It's so far from the truth as possibly can come. Truth of the matter is, the best player wins.
No. This is inaccurate. This is not how vanilla PvP works. This is how retail PvP works. Vanilla classes are very rock, paper, scissors. Certain classes will have an advantage in some circumstances and be at a disadvantage in others. In PvP that matters, group PvP in BG's, certain specs thrive and others are completely useless. Gear matters. Gear matters a lot. At a certain gear threshold, no amount of skill will overcome gear. I am currently walking around with epic weapons and smashing people. I kill others in seconds. This is not because im a skillful player, its due to the massive gear disparity between the hardcore users and the fresh 60s. This disparity grows larger and larger as vanilla continues.
Hunter wrote:
2 weeks ago
You get gadgets to deal with your flaws. You use items in vanilla to be strong. Truth of the matter is, skill will always have priority over inherent class strength.
Right, but when you are assessing a classes strengths or weaknesses you are assuming an equally competent opponent with access to the same trinkets that you have. In this circumstance, with how weak hunters are in vanilla, a mage will provide more value more often.

Without leeway, without shared DR's, without spell batching and without the plethora of hunter bugs, hunters WERE incredibly strong. In Classic, they are not. They are weak. Can a hunter beat other classes? Of course. But when we are talking about competitive PvP on a skilled premade, I would not recommend playing a hunter.

Look at my post history. I am a hunter main... Always have been. Currently have a level 50 hunter in Classic and will spend more time on this than any other toon, BUT, objectively, hunters are not doing well.
All of this is nullified by simple worldly phenomenon as getting the drop on people. Gear matters a lot, yes, I should've mentioned that. Kind of did with gadgets, but oh well. In 1.12, all classes were normized far more than any previous patch. As a hunter, I have slain many rogues with tier gear and purples, who have even had opening on me. This is not to brag, it's just to refute your statement.

Hunters will be fine. Just become a better player.

Oh, and also, OP - your life will become a tiny bit clearer once you start thinking of hunters for what they are: a semi-support class.

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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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Hunter wrote:
2 weeks ago
Hunters will be fine. Just become a better player.
Mmmmhmm. Best of luck tough guy. When you start fighting people who are in the same league as you, I think you'll come to accept the inherent disadvantages that a hunter has to deal with due to the class currently being broken. It is malfunctioning. As someone who plays a warrior now, hunters are laughable, which should not be the case for a warrior. "Get good" is not the answer to a class that is broken. But if youre okay with getting stomped by people who are worse than you due to your class being broken, be my guest, and this will be the case.

edit: I had this same conversation with a billy badass hunter in my guild the other day. Then the guild hosted a dual tournament. All the hunters felt pretty bad afterwards... Including him, after they had PvP'd against some people who understood how to abuse leeway. All these raid geared hunts sporting their Rhok bows and anticipating the slaughter. Immediately humbled. But that wont be the case with you because youre better! You'll just outplay the fact that the class doesnt function, against ALL opponents... Mmhmmm.

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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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Stfuppercut wrote:
2 weeks ago
Hunter wrote:
2 weeks ago
Hunters will be fine. Just become a better player.
Mmmmhmm. Best of luck tough guy. When you start fighting people who are in the same league as you, I think you'll come to accept the inherent disadvantages that a hunter has to deal with due to the class currently being broken. It is malfunctioning. As someone who plays a warrior now, hunters are laughable, which should not be the case for a warrior. "Get good" is not the answer to a class that is broken. But if youre okay with getting stomped by people who are worse than you due to your class being broken, be my guest, and this will be the case.

edit: I had this same conversation with a billy badass hunter in my guild the other day. Then the guild hosted a dual tournament. All the hunters felt pretty bad... Including him, after they had PvP'd against some people who understood how to abuse leeway. But that wont be the case with you because youre better! You'll just outplay the fact that the class doesnt function, against ALL opponents... Mmhmmm.
Ok

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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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In their current state Hunters are kind of fucked in 1v1. Still very, very strong in group PvP though. I've been 60 for about a month now on my Hunter, 1v1ing Rogues and Warriors that know what they're doing is very hard at the moment. Rogues can literally sprint over your traps without triggering them and Warriors can Charge/Intercept over them. Because they just don't trigger quickly enough.
You don't pick Hunter to become the very best 1v1er though. If you want to become the best 1v1er you roll Warlock or Shadow Priest, or perhaps Shaman. You pick Hunter for the group PvP impact. To burst down clothies in group PvP, to provide zoning and to make sure Rogues don't rape your healers. And Hunters really excel at those things. If you play Mage you will likely experience first hand what Hunters are best at: shutting down Mages in group PvP.

   Hunter Stfuppercut
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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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morbidmike wrote:
2 weeks ago
In their current state Hunters are kind of fucked in 1v1. Still very, very strong in group PvP though. I've been 60 for about a month now on my Hunter, 1v1ing Rogues and Warriors that know what they're doing is very hard at the moment. Rogues can literally sprint over your traps without triggering them and Warriors can Charge/Intercept over them. Because they just don't trigger quickly enough.
You don't pick Hunter to become the very best 1v1er though. If you want to become the best 1v1er you roll Warlock or Shadow Priest, or perhaps Shaman. You pick Hunter for the group PvP impact. To burst down clothies in group PvP, to provide zoning and to make sure Rogues don't rape your healers. And Hunters really excel at those things. If you play Mage you will likely experience first hand what Hunters are best at: shutting down Mages in group PvP.
This. Except I'll also add that re-traps are incredibly powerful against warriors and rogues. We have mail armor to deal with both of them. Let rogue open on you, re-traps, bandage, flare so he can't Vanish, skull of the impending doom so it breaks his panic blind, then call it a day.

How to deal with mages -> viperstinglol

Ultimately, hunters are wolves. Wolves are not dangerous because of their fangs or claws. They are dangerous because of the pack. And they make a damn good addition to that pack, with infinite utility tools.

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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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morbidmike wrote:
2 weeks ago
In their current state Hunters are kind of fucked in 1v1. Still very, very strong in group PvP though.
And here is the issue. Because in BG's hunters will often find themselves in 1v1's. They are typically flag sitting in AB. Or harassing a healer and attempting to separate him from the fight in WSG. They are also carry assists or defensive in WSG. A hunter is designed to be good in a 1v1 situation, so the fact that they are underperforming puts their entire value into question for a premade. Dont get me wrong, vipersting is still incredibly valuable, almost good enough to validate bringing a hunter, but I think we will see far fewer hunters in premade teams than we are accustomed to.

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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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This thread is depressing, oh how the mighty have fallen.

   Stfuppercut
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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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I want to have a good dueling class. And world 1v1. And i do not like to play a lock. I am open for ele/sp too. I really wanted to play warrior in the Beginning but useless...

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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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Ajs wrote:
1 week ago
I want to have a good dueling class. And world 1v1. And i do not like to play a lock. I am open for ele/sp too. I really wanted to play warrior in the Beginning but useless...
Mages are strong in duels and open world 1v1 but they're not the best. If you don't want to play lock then yeah, SP,/Ele/Rogue would be your best bets imo. If you also want to have a big impact in group PvP and especially BGs, go with Ele shaman. Ele shamans are beasts because they have great ranged burst damage and are very tanky, but also bring tons of support with Purge (ridiculously powerful spell), heals and Windfury.

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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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Rogue is not for me.
So between Priest and Shaman?

But i wont start leveling again. Tired.
Mage is 26 and Hunter 32.
It would be a maximum of wasted time

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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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Mage and Hunter - played them both. Mage and Hunter in vanila till Cata and Hunter now in classic till lv 50. Now my main is Shaman nad im very very very happy with my decission ;]

About huntard - as some1 write above me this class is its own shadow now. The more lv I made the more I regret my choice.
Mage - played for most of my WOW carrier. Its pure DPS - big damage numbers, have lots of utilities, can hit and run easily.

If You dont have time for new char than i sugest You - forget about Hunter and play mage. Right now you should not have a problem with finding some spell cleave group and lv him up really fast.

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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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Why is hunter broken in classic but was not on pservers? What changed?

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Undercity
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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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I decided for mage. Went AoE leveling. I am 28 now and have 38 Gold. I love it.
Thanks for your help!!

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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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Stfuppercut wrote:
2 weeks ago
Without leeway, without shared DR's, without spell batching and without the plethora of hunter bugs, hunters WERE incredibly strong. In Classic, they are not. They are weak. Can a hunter beat other classes? Of course. But when we are talking about competitive PvP on a skilled premade, I would not recommend playing a hunter.
@Stfuppercut, what steps do you think Blizzard would need to take to make Hunters viable in Classic? Would they need to tweak leeway and spell batching in addition to fixing bugs such as FD+Trap, or is there a "minimum tweaks list" that you believe they could implement out of all those options in order to get them to a minimally competitive & viable state?

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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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rijndael wrote:
1 week ago
Stfuppercut, what steps do you think Blizzard would need to take to make Hunters viable in Classic? Would they need to tweak leeway and spell batching in addition to fixing bugs such as FD+Trap, or is there a "minimum tweaks list" that you believe they could implement out of all those options in order to get them to a minimally competitive & viable state?
Leeway needs to be toned down. Leeway should not be something you can activate while backpedalling or jumping in place. Leeway was designed to make the game flow well... It shouldnt be a system that is so apparent that players are jiggling to activate leeway in an effort to extend their reach. Leeway is supposed to quietly work in the background to make the experience feel more fluid. Traps should have their radius slightly increased to account for leeway so that people cant use leeway to avoid traps (ex. a melee jiggling to fight a hunter with a trap between the two of them). I think that Blizz should reconsider their stance on running a mount straight over a trap or charging over traps and not setting traps off - while this is confirmed "vanilla" there is a lot of video evidence to suggest that this was happening less often in vanilla(occasionally) than it is in Classic(always).

Pet AI needs to be upgraded, it currently feels clunky and unresponsive. Scatter and trap should not be on a shared DR, as they werent for 9 major patches in vanilla which was only changed for the final 3 patches in vanilla and then was revised in TBC. One is physical CC the other is classified as Magical. They werent a shared CC because it doesnt make any sense to have them shared when one is designed to setup for the other - which is why this was changed in TBC.

Obvious bugs that will be fixed include the auto shot bug and the feign bug, but both of these hurt hunters a lot right now. Blizz has acknowledged these and is working towards a fix. Spell batching feels bad and while it was part of the game in vanilla, it was designed to increase the overall quality of the game due to poor internet connections or PC performance. In 2019, creating an artificial delay on the server feels really really bad... This is especially true in PvP and can be seen by classes who depend on quick interrupts or swaps to control a fight. Depending on how a spell is batched it can make or break a fight for a hunter. While this is true for other classes, hunters have very limited fight reset options (trap,scatter,feign) and each of these options are on a long cooldown. The hunter depends on these resets to control the engagement and set the win condition, which is to gap close the hunter or lose. It feels really bad when you are playing a hunter correctly, but you lose regardless because one of these valuable resets is batched and either doesnt function OR is overridden because of the batch window. Its awful when you are experienced enough to know that you are doing the right things, but you are getting negative feedback from the game.

Hunters are the least polished class and have the most issues. Hunters also only receive negative outcomes for both spell batching and leeway. Hunters also received some of the heaviest nerfs compared to their true vanilla state because we are going with the 1.12 version, which is technically fair, but has a very negative impact on a hunters performance due to the shared DR's.

"or is there a "minimum tweaks list" that you believe they could implement"
Yeah, I would say its unrealistic to overhaul the leeway and spellbatching systems and those should be longterm considerations for Blizz. Right now, I would like to see the shared DR's removed. If they removed the shared DR and fixed the bugs with hunters (which they are working towards) like the feign bugs and autoshot bugs, hunters would be in a functional state. This would still be a very weak hunter, but a hunter that is still playable at a competitive level.
Gallow wrote:
1 week ago
Why is hunter broken in classic but was not on pservers? What changed?
Private recreated vanilla as it was, to the best of their ability. Example: Hunters have access to Lupos early on and can use him until the AQ patch, when he was nerfed in Vanilla. Where as in Classic, Lupos is just bad. Private servers went out of their way to replicate the patches as best as they could. Blizz is taking the entirety of vanilla and adjusting it to mesh within the framework of patch 1.12 . Generally speaking, I actually agree with Blizz's approach. I think that recreating vanilla exactly as it was, is sort of a massive burden that actually makes the game worse in a lot of regards. I think that private servers often put too much effort into trying to make things exactly as they were and the experience often felt confusing for new players. However, if we are going with one final versions of classes, we should really consider how these classes functioned for the majority of vanilla, not just the final patch.

These were conversations many experienced players were trying to have pre launch but they were often snuffed out by inexperienced players who were screeching "nochanges". There are many nuances to balancing classes and assessing what state they should or shouldnt be in within the confines of a timelocked Classic 1.13 patch. This is a very complicated topic that cant be dismissed with "nochanges" because that slogan doesnt really apply.

   teebling Gallow
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