Rogue Subtlety
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8 months ago (1.13.2)
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I'm assuming that someone on this forum has a better grasp of pet mechanics than I do, so figured I'd ask the question here:

Is there any point to teaching a cat bite from a pve dps perspective? It seems that with claw on auto cast that after the opener he won't use bite again in the fight because he is casting claw as soon as he gets 25 energy. Is there a way to make bite a higher priority for the auto cast rotation? Is it worth teaching a cat bite? I imagine it helps the pet get aggro faster while questing but I would like to teach him both dash and prowl.

Just trying to get the opinion/ perspective of some of the more experienced hunters out there since this is my first time trying to play one seriously.

Telvaine - Night Elf Hunter
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8 months ago (1.13.2)
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I've done some research into it. I'll give you the short version, hope that's fine.

Bite is better than Claw for sustained damage.
Claw is better than Bite for burst.

In dungeons, just right click everything that's not Bite. Only have Bite on automatic. This way, your pet will never run out of focus (because bite has a 10 second CD), and it will make for increased DPS as opposed to having both Bite and Claw.

For questing, I'd recommend having Growl and Bite. Cats are good if you can manage its lower HP pool. I recommend an Owl, but if you don't have one currently, then don't worry about that until you get to Winterspring. Wolves also have a good mix of stats for questing. Personally, I leveled with Owl > Cat > Owl. Cat for the most part.

If you're 60 and spamming dungeons/raids, I recommend getting a Bloodaxe Worg for max rank of Furious Howl. It also has Bite and Dash. Excellent pet for grouping, due to Furious Howl.

Good luck!

   Telvaine

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Rogue Subtlety
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8 months ago (1.13.2)
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Thanks for the info, that makes a lot of sense, I'm probably going to see if I can make a macro to toggle auto cast on claw for energy dumping when it's capped out the same way you would dump rage on a warrior with hs. For leveling and general play I'm probably going to just grab a hyena, only because I love them, I know they are not optimal. But, they have identical stats to a wolf just no furious howl. I'll keep a cat leveled for dungeons and more serious content and probably rock the hyena for screwing around.

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8 months ago (1.13.2)
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ya brah it all about using the dopest aminals unless u are doing the hardcore endgame stuff :))))

Rogue Subtlety
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8 months ago (1.13.2)
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Snoober wrote:
8 months ago
ya brah it all about using the dopest aminals unless u are doing the hardcore endgame stuff :))))
It actually is for me, since I really don't give a shit about 3% extra overall dps while leveling. I get more enjoyment out of the game by watching hordies get mauled by Giggles, Joker, or Nina the hyena. It's the same thing as choosing your race based on aesthetics rather than racials, which is what I would also advocate people do.

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8 months ago (1.13.2)
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If you’re only using one, Claw is superior. Claw will simply be used much more often than Bite due to resource costs and consequently will benefit more from +15% talent crit which also help with Frenzy uptime. At 60, you have enough points from loyalty to cover all bases and still have enough for both Bite and Claw so you use both to get a minor DPS increase. For leveling I like just Claw because:
a. It’s better than just Bite
b. Having both is a only a minor DPS increase and a lot more time spent taming pets to keep the highest rank on both/less wiggle room with loyalty points

   Telvaine
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8 months ago (1.13.2)
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Jpy wrote:
8 months ago
If you’re only using one, Claw is superior. Claw will simply be used much more often than Bite due to resource costs and consequently will benefit more from +15% talent crit which also help with Frenzy uptime. At 60, you have enough points from loyalty to cover all bases and still have enough for both Bite and Claw so you use both to get a minor DPS increase. For leveling I like just Claw because:
a. It’s better than just Bite
b. Having both is a only a minor DPS increase and a lot more time spent taming pets to keep the highest rank on both/less wiggle room with loyalty points
From my understanding, this is just plain false.

   Telvaine

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8 months ago (1.13.2)
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Hunter wrote:
8 months ago
Jpy wrote:
8 months ago
If you’re only using one, Claw is superior. Claw will simply be used much more often than Bite due to resource costs and consequently will benefit more from +15% talent crit which also help with Frenzy uptime. At 60, you have enough points from loyalty to cover all bases and still have enough for both Bite and Claw so you use both to get a minor DPS increase. For leveling I like just Claw because:
a. It’s better than just Bite
b. Having both is a only a minor DPS increase and a lot more time spent taming pets to keep the highest rank on both/less wiggle room with loyalty points
From my understanding, this is just plain false.
Not entirely; This point is true: "Claw will simply be used much more often than Bite due to resource costs and consequently will benefit more from +15% talent crit which also help with Frenzy uptime."

As far as Bite is concerned; the focus regeneration is faster than the cooldown, leaving your pet with unspent focus most of the time. From that persepective Claw gives you more DPS than Bite.

   Telvaine
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8 months ago (1.13.2)
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And this debate is exactly why I asked the question here, I've heard it both ways. Another thing to consider is not using claw frees up another two talent points from beastial discipline (10% focus regen per point) that can then potentially be put into unleashed fury (4% damage per point) or frenzy.

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8 months ago (1.13.2)
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Telvaine wrote:
8 months ago
Another thing to consider is not using claw frees up another two talent points from beastial discipline (10% focus regen per point) that can then potentially be put into unleashed fury (4% damage per point) or frenzy.
I wouldn't put points in Bestial Discipline in the first place, I would rather go for this: https://www.bobo-talents.com/?c=hunter& ... FdFeFfFgFh
or I would take improved Mend Pet over Spirit Bond instead. Getting a fast attack speed pet (AS 1.2 or lower) would leave enough Frenzy uptime anyway to go 4/5.

   Telvaine
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8 months ago (1.13.2)
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Pluuf wrote:
8 months ago
Hunter wrote:
8 months ago
Jpy wrote:
8 months ago
If you’re only using one, Claw is superior. Claw will simply be used much more often than Bite due to resource costs and consequently will benefit more from +15% talent crit which also help with Frenzy uptime. At 60, you have enough points from loyalty to cover all bases and still have enough for both Bite and Claw so you use both to get a minor DPS increase. For leveling I like just Claw because:
a. It’s better than just Bite
b. Having both is a only a minor DPS increase and a lot more time spent taming pets to keep the highest rank on both/less wiggle room with loyalty points
From my understanding, this is just plain false.
Not entirely; This point is true: "Claw will simply be used much more often than Bite due to resource costs and consequently will benefit more from +15% talent crit which also help with Frenzy uptime."

As far as Bite is concerned; the focus regeneration is faster than the cooldown, leaving your pet with unspent focus most of the time. From that persepective Claw gives you more DPS than Bite.
In the higher levels, 50+, quests start thinning out, and it becomes significantly more appealing to run instances not only for that reason, but also for pre-BiS. You'll want to use a Wolf in instances due to Furious Howl. Furious Howl has a 10 second cooldown, which makes Bite a perfect combination with it. These two combined will create a higher group DPS output than just Claw, or Claw + Bite. Vanilla is a group experience, unlike retail. Max rank of Furious Howl (4) adds 45-57 damage to all group members' next physical attack. We know that there will be at least two - the Hunter himself and the tank.

Also, if you do not have Wolf/Furious Howl yet, the reasons why Bite > Claw are still staggering. Fast attacks means more threat gain, which you do not want in an instance. And, should you suddenly need your pet to split aggro from tank to relieve him of some burden, then having the focus pooled up from having no Claw will make you able to manually press Growl, which is not the case should you have used Claw.

So, for lower levels? Sure, Claw could potentially be a superior choice. For upper levels, 50+ and 60 content, Bite + Furious Howl is the way to go.

   Telvaine

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8 months ago (1.13.2)
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Worth noting that my opinions are based on solo play experience only. I practiced on repack (sandbox environment) pre launch before a hiatus and now my availability is shot so I don’t plan to do much group play. Wolf/Furious Howl are absolutely better for group play if you have multiple party members to benefit from it. If not (more caster group) I’d imagine Claw + Bite Cat or Serpent will out perform Wolf in dungeons but I’m just speculating.

At 50 (or 49 to be more specific) you already have access to Bite 7 so there’s no point in not taming a Saltwater Snapjaw etc as it’s just 1 tame for the highest rank. The point about skipping Bite for leveling is for pre 50 and for a fresh launch environment when you want to get ahead and stay ahead so you skip having to update Bite ranks as you go but honestly for leveling on a server that’s already beyond launch you can just tame for both Claw and Bite.

E: I feel like the point about taking aggro from the tank in dungeons is really dependent on what quality of tank you have. If you’re just leveling with randoms in dungeons and an inadequate tank then it might be a problem but I wouldn’t alter my pet choices specifically for that when you can just alter your play style to accommodate an incompetent tank (pulling your pet off to let him establish threat/waiting to start attacking with pet at the start of a pull etc)

   Telvaine
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8 months ago (1.13.2)
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As far as the talents are concerned I'll 100% be using everything in the spec you linked except I'm putting 5/5 into imp hawk, I would never value 9% pet health over 6% additional chance at a massive dps boost.

As far as getting a wolf/ furious howl is concerned, I've always been planning on getting a wolf at max level for the furious howl buff when the raid wants it, other two will probably be the zg bat for pvp and my hyena for lolz.

Thanks again for all the feedback.

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8 months ago (1.13.2)
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5/5 Imp Aspect of the Hawk is bae at this point

   Telvaine
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8 months ago (1.13.2)
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Telvaine wrote:
8 months ago
As far as the talents are concerned I'll 100% be using everything in the spec you linked except I'm putting 5/5 into imp hawk, I would never value 9% pet health over 6% additional chance at a massive dps boost.

As far as getting a wolf/ furious howl is concerned, I've always been planning on getting a wolf at max level for the furious howl buff when the raid wants it, other two will probably be the zg bat for pvp and my hyena for lolz.

Thanks again for all the feedback.
Personally, I went with 1/5 Improved AotH, and 5/5 pet health. Then I swapped to 5/5 Improved AotH in 60, and let me tell you: it procs an insane amount more often than before. I can definitely see why you'd make that choice. Anyway, this was an interesting thread. Thanks!

   Telvaine

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