That's all well and good, but is it really necessary to make comments like this?Stfuppercut wrote: ↑1 week agoI think that is a bit disingenuous. I do help people who need it. I dont coddle people Gnoll, Monarch and Duki who are a net loss to the site and I like to highlight their ignorance because I believe its important to question their credibility. In the same vein I question players like Caperfin who do an overall net harm by spreading misinformation. I dont mind being a bit abrasive if it serves to inform players or prevent people from being misinformed. In Monarchs case, the guy is a terror on the site and has big ideas about how the game should be played or how it should be developed. just like Gnoll. In this circumstance highlight this is important to inform people that this is not a valuable source of information. In this specific circumstance, a user has built a 40 man raid comp guide, but it isnt valuable. He clearly has no raid experience, so making this guide does harm to the community for would-be users who aim to use this "tool" to guide their raid teams.
If your goal is to inform people who may not realize what they're reading is incorrect, wouldn't it be a lot more effective to simply state that the guide is wrong and link to something more accurate?Stfuppercut wrote: ↑1 week agoI could wipe my ass on a piece of paper and call it a guide and then post it here asking the community to give me feedback so that it turns into the perfect raid composition guide but why would the community help? The foundation of the guide is a streak of feces on a piece of paper. No one should bother putting feedback into this.
I understand wanting to uphold a standard for guides on this site and I often find myself agreeing with you. But at the same time, I also think you tend to go too far when criticizing people.
This thread is no exception. I agree that the guide isn't great, but I also think comparing it to literal shit and insinuating that most people who write guides are bad at the game doesn't help anyone. You could have removed those parts of the post and still got your point across, so why bother saying it? All it does is increase the chance that the thread will devolve into pointless bickering.
I don't think its self-censorship to reword your criticism to be more constructive and less combative.
Just my 2 cents.
I don't want to see you get banned, dude.
Classic is out, I had a good run on Barrens chat haha. Teebs has sent me a few personal messages over the course of my time here, so I've always been working on borrowed time. Any of his issues with me thus far stemmed from Duki and Gnoll, so I'm okay with leaving on those terms. My overall contribution has been positive and I feel like I've gotten most of my feelings about Classic off of my chest. Was a great time leading up to Classic!
You all jumped into Stfuppercut, I can see it from his perspective, the web is getting bloated with low-quality guides, especially videos only wasting players time, and not helping them out. But since Teb said that we should guide Midoo where he was wrong I will try to fix some stuff
Midoo wrote: ↑1 week ago- Warriors are the best tanking class by far and you should feel no shame turning down a well geared Druid for a mediocre warrior as long as they know strats because of their way better damage mitigation. 1 main tank for the boss that has to be a Warrior and 1 or 2 offtanks for adds that can be Warriors or Druids. However in a fight that has tank swapping have at least 2 tanks with Taunt ready.
- Druids are mitigating damage better than warriors if you read any in-depth effective health theorycrafting analysis
- Druids have taunt
- Druids are inferior in fear encounters on Horde side (and if you don't have dwarf priests on alliance)
- Druids cannot achieve crush-immunity (Stalag)
- Druids are superior on aggro early on
- Gear spike comes late (AQ), although pre-bis is really good
- Needs to be dedicated - must farm Gnomer for Pummelers for snap aggro
TL:DR - there is no need to rule druids out, a good raid has no reason to turn down a good geared dedicated player that wants to play a druid.
Midoo wrote: ↑1 week ago- Priests are the best healer when it comes to raw output, but it's best advised to have at least one Druid just for their unique buffs. If you're Horde, have 1 Shaman in every party of 4 melee DPS to make the most out of Windfury Totem. If you're Alliance have 4 Paladins, each of them with the important role of buffing an re-buffing classes with Greater Blessings. Fill the rest with Priests so you have about 10 healers total.
- Paladins are great because every crit heal restore a portion of mana back, have amazing blessings, and the biggest range of dispels in game
- Priests are great overall healers with a huge arsenal of single target and group heals. On alliance side they are helping more on healing the raid, while in horde setting they are more focused on tank healing
- Druids have tremendous healing output, but their hots do not stack, so they cannot cross heal too much, causing overlaps if there are too many of them.
- Shamans are great group healers, altho can play single target heal duty if needed. With 3x T2 their game goes up tenfold and their totems trivialize some of the poison-based encounters. WF totem scales with every gear upgrade for melee well until endgame, and there is never too much shamans in a raid setting
The best healer is the best player you have playing healer class. Class choice is not making some class best. People are not bringing one-two druids because of the fact that they have unique buffs, but because their hots do not stack.
- You want at least 2 hunters for raiding. One should be a puller, 2nd should be peeler/kiter if needed. They work together on split pulls if needed too.
- You should have more if your group is learning encounters that have frenzy component
- You can buff all melee groups with AP if you have more and you want to spread them
- They provide aura for NR if you play Huhuran with 15 soakers
You need total of 3 players dedicated for tanking. Anything can work, even putting paladin in the mix. You also want to give as much tank gear to fury warriors to be able to offtank stuff when needed. They will be perfectly fine.
- You will want to start with 3 protection warriors or 2 warriors and 1 druid
- You will want to convert one protection warrior to protfury for threat based encounters as soon as he gets some nice threat gear
- You might swap last protection warrior to protfury after he gets threat gear, or keep him as "mitigation" tank
You need 8 players capable of tanking, fury works just fine, especially for Zeliek and Blameux
You need to understand few things
1) there is very little gear before BWL & ZG for casters with +hit, and melee pre-bis is great
2) there is almost no room for more than 12 melee in endgame encounters (C'Thun & KT)
3) raid you start raiding MC with is not gonna be the raid you raid true endgame, and that is beneficial to you
- At least 3 tanking dedicated players
- As many warriors as you can (great pre-bis, scale endlessly endgame (no cap on rage), can help guild outside of raids tanking dungeons)
- Nice balance of healers, and while some encounters can be done with less, you want at least 10 and no more than 12-14
- [H] As many shamans as you can, (up to 8, for every group), they make endgame on horde side almost trivial
- [A] At least 3 paladins
- Two resto druids
- If you have good feral druid, one of 3 tanking slots is for him, will make your tank gearing easier.
- At least 4 mages for start (Majordomo), then add more over the course of the game
- As many rogues as you can for start, then try to keep 4 best ones for endgame
- As much hunters as you can for start, then try to keep 2-3 best ones for pulling / kiting / tranq duties
- Minimum of 3 warlocks for 3 curses, then start adding more as their gear progresses. When you have 4+ it is ok to bring 1 Shadow priest into the mix to boost em more.
Also remember that good raid leader will make any setup works, I have seen some crazy setups so far but I have also seen some guilds do not progress because they are bloated with bad setups & toy specs. On top of that, no matter that player is playing subpar or toy spec, if he is dedicated enough he will make the best of it. I have seen good players play prot & retri paladins, or elemental shamans, warlocks destroying damage meters before ZG gear.
I hope that helps a bit... Stay well
Mookey & Cosá @ Shazzrah EU
Past: Mookey <The Celestial Defender> Xavius EU & Cosa @ Lightning's Blade / Northdale / Lightbringer
Indeed - I would be disappointed if @Stfuppercut were banned.
Yes, it's true, comparing the guide to literal turd and musing that the OP created the terrible material due to their shortcomings in-game was unnecessary and kind of a dick move.
On the other hand, stating that someone's guide can be compared to literal turd and musing that they created terrible material due to their in-game shortcomings is so unnecessary that it's actually kinda funny.