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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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PvP content can be replayed for years if done correctly. The one thing that Classic WoW lacks is a competitive PvP system. Blizzard added Arena in TBC to try to fix this issue. Arena was not the right solution, and the developers even admitted to it. I understand the appeal of Arena. It is competitive and has a defined ranking system. However, pigeonholing players into a tiny area with pillars is not in the spirit of the game. The game is about the open world and the encounters in it.

The first change that should be made is to split the honor system into battleground and world pvp rankings. Honor earned in World PvP and honor earned in battlegrounds should have separate ranking systems. As we all know, the release of battlegrounds trivializes World PvP, since you can no longer viably rank up doing it. Part of what makes World PvP special is that it can happen in almost any zone of the game. You have 20 or 30 wide open playgrounds where players can engage in battle. The map is constantly changing.

The dilemma is how do you make World PvP more structured and competitive? There are 20 or so contested territories in Classic WoW. Unfortunately, most of the level 60 World PvP happens in Silithus, Searing Gorge, Plaguelands, and Winterspring. Level 60s should be incentivized to PvP in all the contested territories. Obviously, camping low levels in Redridge is not what I have in mind. However, every contested territory should have reasons for level 60 players to frequent them, so that there can be World PvP across all of Azeroth.

How do you add strucuture to World PvP in Classic WoW? Do you turn each contested territory into a temporary open world battleground? What if Tanaris had objectives similar to Arathi Basin with a resource score. The faction which earns the highest resource score wins the battle in Tanaris. What would these objectives be? How would you discourage mindless zerging? Could you have a ranking system based on player performance qnd contribution in each battle?

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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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RedridgeGnoll wrote:
1 week ago
The one thing that Classic WoW lacks is a competitive PvP system.
Yes, because it's World of Warcraft: Classic.
RedridgeGnoll wrote:
1 week ago
The dilemma is how do you make World PvP more structured and competitive?
RedridgeGnoll wrote:
1 week ago
How do you add strucuture to World PvP in Classic WoW?
Don't, or just play a different game other than World of Warcraft: Classic.
RedridgeGnoll wrote:
1 week ago
Do you turn each contested territory into a temporary open world battleground?
No.
RedridgeGnoll wrote:
1 week ago
What if Tanaris had objectives similar to Arathi Basin with a resource score?
What if the moon landing was a big hoax? We may never know.
RedridgeGnoll wrote:
1 week ago
Could you have a ranking system based on player performance qnd contribution in each battle?
No because then it would not be World of Warcraft: Classic.

I hope this answers your questions.

   Nyxt weston Yinn fendor Wilberry DoomC Frosted
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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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Do you do anything other than shilling against TBC and in favor of introducing Ashran in Classic WoW on these forums?

There's been 4 threads at least that I know of that have answered your question already. We know you're tired of being called silly on other Classic WoW forums but your refusal to acknowledge every single fact and argument that's already been made kind of makes me think they're justified, because you seem to be interested in shilling and starting drama and not actually looking to get feedback.

If you have a short memory, I'd like to invite you to please review any of the arguments already posted in your other threads on the same or similar topic:

The Grind of the Honor System
Introducing World-PvP Frontiers
Battlezones: World PvP Battle for Resources Idea
Post-Classic Using Horizontal Content

Please review any of the dozens of pages of feedback you've already received and don't bother us with the same questions over and over again.

Everyone else, please don't feed this obvious troll.

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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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Nymis wrote:
1 week ago
Do you do anything other than shilling against TBC and in favor of introducing Ashran in Classic WoW on these forums?

There's been 4 threads at least that I know of that have answered your question already. We know you're tired of being called silly on other Classic WoW forums but your refusal to acknowledge every single fact and argument that's already been made kind of makes me think they're justified, because you seem to be interested in shilling and starting drama and not actually looking to get feedback.

If you have a short memory, I'd like to invite you to please review any of the arguments already posted in your other threads on the same or similar topic:

The Grind of the Honor System
Introducing World-PvP Frontiers
Battlezones: World PvP Battle for Resources Idea
Post-Classic Using Horizontal Content

Please review any of the dozens of pages of feedback you've already received and don't bother us with the same questions over and over again.

Everyone else, please don't feed this obvious troll.
The point still remains. World PvP becomes trivialized when battlegrounds are released. The honor system in Classic makes ranking up in World PvP not feasible. PvP can be replayed for years, while PvE content gerenally has a shorter lifecycle. Classic WoW lacks any type of structure in World PvP. The open world is the greatest asset of the game. There is a reason Blizzard added arena in TBC. Players wanted a structuted system with ratings. That is what is popular in gaming nowadays.

I appreciate you consolidating some of the topics I have posted. Comparing my ideas to Ashran is just a way for you to avoid the discussion.

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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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Not this again!
Need a filter to not allow Mr. Gnoll to create these types of threads!

You can complain and stat that TBC was not good and didnt handle pvp well with Arenas or even bash classic and how to make it better but why dont you stop posting and enjoy the game! I am absolutely loving Classic right now! Flaws or not, this game is amazing! During my time leveling I am not complaining about the game, I am not even noticing them!

I don't think I am a minority in this, reading forums and seeing how many people are playing classic, kinda shows we/classic doesnt need changes or saving!

I get that after years of playing classic it will get stale and may lose content but if you play a game for a long time, eventually you will want to do or play something else.

Get off the forums my friend and enjoy the game for what it is or just play another game!

EDIT: Also I enjoyed TBC more than Vanilla when I played back then!

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I do enjoy Classic. I am just saying that a good PvP system could add years of replayability to the game. I don't claim that the suggesions I have put forth are foolproof. However, I do think that something has to be added to PvP to keep it more playable.

The prevailing argument is that faction imbalance would ruin any World PvP system. However, even on servers that have faction imbalances there is still a lot of World PvP and truimphs on both sides. I just think that this is something that has to happen. Look at all the popular games nowadays. Fortnite, Overwatch, League of Legends, CS GO, DOTA 2. They all have competitive pvp systems with ratings and strucuture. I realize how challenging it is to have something like that in Classic WoW, due to the open world nature of the game. The questions is whether it is possible to have this in Classic WoW. If so, how? I am trying to figure that out.

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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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Your threads are becoming very, very repetitive.

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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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RedridgeGnoll wrote:
1 week ago
I am just saying that a good PvP system could add years of replayability to the game
Something to pitch to blizz when / if they ever start talking about classic+. Until then, (~2 years from now?) we are good. mature the ideas a bit more and share with us again after naxx is released :D

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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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I like how you constantly belittle expansions in your posts. Then you turn around and offer changes based entirely on what those same expansions have already tried.

Maybe the rest of the world doesn't want esports competition? Maybe it does? Either way keep my world pvp just that, WORLD and un-instanced.

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Yinn wrote:
1 week ago
I like how you constantly belittle expansions in your posts. Then you turn around and offer changes based entirely on what those same expansions have already tried.

Maybe the rest of the world doesn't want esports competition? Maybe it does? Either way keep my world pvp just that, WORLD and un-instanced.
I agree. World PvP is about the world, not instances. I just want World PvP to be more exciting. We will see how Phase 2 goes. It will be interesting.

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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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The whole point of wpvp in classic and what makes it fun is that it is unstructured. You are trying to make unstructured pvp better by making it structured... like battlegrounds. Not sure what it is you are even trying to accomplish.

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Telvaine wrote:
1 week ago
The whole point of wpvp in classic and what makes it fun is that it is unstructured. You are trying to make unstructured pvp better by making it structured... like battlegrounds. Not sure what it is you are even trying to accomplish.
Well having an honor system where you can only rank up doing battlegrounds is a problem. There should be two honor systems. One for World PvP and Battlegrounds. This way players are not forced to only spam BGs to rank up.

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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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RedridgeGnoll wrote:
1 week ago
Telvaine wrote:
1 week ago
The whole point of wpvp in classic and what makes it fun is that it is unstructured. You are trying to make unstructured pvp better by making it structured... like battlegrounds. Not sure what it is you are even trying to accomplish.
Well having an honor system where you can only rank up doing battlegrounds is a problem. There should be two honor systems. One for World PvP and Battlegrounds. This way players are not forced to only spam BGs to rank up.
Why should players be able to rank up from wpvp?

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Telvaine wrote:
1 week ago
RedridgeGnoll wrote:
1 week ago
Telvaine wrote:
1 week ago
The whole point of wpvp in classic and what makes it fun is that it is unstructured. You are trying to make unstructured pvp better by making it structured... like battlegrounds. Not sure what it is you are even trying to accomplish.
Well having an honor system where you can only rank up doing battlegrounds is a problem. There should be two honor systems. One for World PvP and Battlegrounds. This way players are not forced to only spam BGs to rank up.
Why should players be able to rank up from wpvp?
Because the open world is the strongest element of Classic. It is what seperates itself from Retail. The open world element of Classic is something that no other popular game has. So why not improve the open world pvp im the game? Warsong gulch in 2019 isn't that special. Neither is Arena. Other pvp games and genres have surpassed them.

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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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I don't see how making open world pvp more structured is an improvement, when the lack of structure is what makes it fun.

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Telvaine wrote:
1 week ago
I don't see how making open world pvp more structured is an improvement, when the lack of structure is what makes it fun.
The lack of structure and rewards leads to boredom. Eventually, players ignore World PvP due to the lack of rewards.

Let's be honest. Right now you gank someone and they just walk back to their corpse. No gain or loss by either player. It gets boring, and it is obvious that competitive players realize how shallow it is. There are little to no stakes.

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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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Are you seriously making yet another "WoW PvP" thread. I swear I've seen at least 4 other threads from you about the exact same topic

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Apol wrote:
1 week ago
Are you seriously making yet another "WoW PvP" thread. I swear I've seen at least 4 other threads from you about the exact same topic
World PvP is that important.

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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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Then unearth your old threads instead of making new ones every time

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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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Oh hey, this thread again!

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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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RedridgeGnoll wrote:
1 week ago
That is what is popular in gaming nowadays.
If I was interested in what was popular in gaming nowadays then I wouldn't be spending 6 hours a day playing a game from 2004. I'm not playing Classic because all the cool kids are playing it, I'm playing it because I've been waiting for the game I used to like to come back for a decade.

I used to like the original game. I still do, but I used to, too.

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Pippina wrote:
1 week ago
RedridgeGnoll wrote:
1 week ago
That is what is popular in gaming nowadays.
If I was interested in what was popular in gaming nowadays then I wouldn't be spending 6 hours a day playing a game from 2004. I'm not playing Classic because all the cool kids are playing it, I'm playing it because I've been waiting for the game I used to like to come back for a decade.

I used to like the original game. I still do, but I used to, too.
I agree. I am taking the same approach as you are while playing. I am playing because I enjoy the game. I don't care how long it takes me to complete Molten Core or whatever.

Let's be honest. Most of these streamers playing Classic WoW don't really care about Classic WoW. Why do you think they just exploit and power through the content as fast as possible? They have no interest in interacting with their server community or immersing themselves in the game. The only socializing they concern themselves with is their twitch chat. So many of these Classic WoW streamers hyped up the game, only to prove that they don't really care about Classic WoW. It isn't a hardcore game. It is a game designed for casual players and socialization. However, I recognize that competitive gameplay, particularly with regard to PvP is appealing to a lot of players. I am not sure competitive PvP can ever work in WoW, but I do think that World PvP in Classic could be improved upon. A lot of these WoW streamers prefer Retail PvP solely because of Arena. It doesn't matter how bad Arena is, as long as it has rating and small scale PvP. Classic WoW is pretty casual game and Blizzard designed it that way. I think that making improving PvP in the game could add a lot of replayability to it.

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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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RedridgeGnoll wrote:
1 week ago
I appreciate you consolidating some of the topics I have posted. Comparing my ideas to Ashran is just a way for you to avoid the discussion.
And you posting the same fucking thing in 5 separate threads after dozens of replies in each of those shows you're not interested in listening.

Nobody is ignoring World-PvP because of a lack of rewards. Stop crying for stupid trivialized rewards for carrying flags and doing stupid non-PvP shit like in Ashran. If you want rewards for PvP, go and do Battlegrounds. World-PvP is happening and will continue to happen despite there being no game incentive to do so. All your arguments have been refuted time and again. I have >300 people in my guild who are devoted to World-PvP and none of them have ever bitched about wanting a "separate honor system", which leads me to believe you have the retail mindset of a player who can't be bothered to do something for fun unless there's some epic loot or gold involved. Please spare us.

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Nymis wrote:
1 week ago
RedridgeGnoll wrote:
1 week ago
I appreciate you consolidating some of the topics I have posted. Comparing my ideas to Ashran is just a way for you to avoid the discussion.
And you posting the same fucking thing in 5 separate threads after dozens of replies in each of those shows you're not interested in listening.

Nobody is ignoring World-PvP because of a lack of rewards. Stop crying for stupid trivialized rewards for carrying flags and doing stupid non-PvP shit like in Ashran. If you want rewards for PvP, go and do Battlegrounds. World-PvP is happening and will continue to happen despite there being no game incentive to do so. All your arguments have been refuted time and again. I have >300 people in my guild who are devoted to World-PvP and none of them have ever bitched about wanting a "separate honor system", which leads me to believe you have the retail mindset of a player who can't be bothered to do something for fun unless there's some epic loot or gold involved. Please spare us.
Vanilla WoW didn't reflect this once battlegrounds were released. When crossrealm bgs came out towards the end of Vanilla, World PvP suffered even more.

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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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RedridgeGnoll wrote:
1 week ago
Telvaine wrote:
1 week ago
I don't see how making open world pvp more structured is an improvement, when the lack of structure is what makes it fun.
The lack of structure and rewsrds leads to boredom. Eventually, players ignore World PvP due to the lack of rewards.

Let's be honest. Right now you gank someone and they just walk back to their corpse. No gain or loss by either player. It gets boring, and it is obvious that competitive players realize how shallow it is. There are little to no stakes.
Your assessment is patently false. I've been playing WoW for 15 or whatever years now. I always participate in world pvp. There's never been any reward for it, and it is and always has been my favorite form of pvp, and my favorite part of the game. I'll take it just the way it currently is, thank you.

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