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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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Forsakenone wrote:
2 weeks ago
That would be a great Solution. Make the transfer optional.
I'm not sure why this is even contested... Let alone a very widely held viewpoint, that Blizz would even consider shutting off Classic vanilla and forcing TBC. It just doesnt make sense. Classic is a cashcow with a built in community that has thrived on private for years and the game requires very limited support and no updates... Of course they would keep it going because companies like money.

However, TBC would draw a large audience and is the obvious next step to the Classic project and again, companies like money, so from a fiscal standpoint this is a no-brainer. The bonus is that the majority of the playerbase also want this, so they can treat this business move as a "fan service" and we will all eat it up!

Right after the announcement of Classic, everyone quickly shifted conversations to what would come after Classic. "But what about when we finish Naxx?" And it became quite clear early on that the transition to TBC was the logical next step. Now when TBC is released (at this point I think the profitability and success of Classic has guaranteed TBC), the remaining question is how that transition will look. Will we copy over a character to that TBC realm? Will we pay to transfer it? What will we be able to take with our character? When we copy/transfer, will it erase the vanilla version as in a cut/paste transfer or will it just create a duplicate and allow our Classic vanilla character to persist? What restrictions will be imposed on that character move, is there a cap on gold or items??? Is there a cap on the quantity of characters you can transfer? Are there designated servers that you MUST transfer to based on the Classic realm that your character inhabits? There are dozens and dozens of relevant questions to consider, but the release of TBC isn't one of them at this point, it will happen because Blizzard is a company and companies like money and TBC = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$. So, Blizzard likes TBC.

g0bledyg00k wrote:
4 months ago
Never making a single investment again until I 100% know it pays off.
2000 IQ :wink:
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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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Even if the classic community drops to private server numbers (like 20-30k players, 5-10k online on any given time) or lower, they won't pull the plug on classic. That's still free money. They can keep the vanilla server cycle on loop until blizzard goes bankrupt and it will continue to turn a profit.

As far as what happens after Naxx is, im fine with F R E S H servers. And double dipping into TBC servers.

If they go 1 IQ and kill classic, im just going to be playing vanilla private servers again.

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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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If they do TBC they'd also have to keep going and do Wrath, Cata etc unless they stop somehwere so idk wich is best for the community

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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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Westorz wrote:
2 weeks ago
If they do TBC they'd also have to keep going and do Wrath, Cata etc unless they stop somehwere so idk wich is best for the community
So long as their analytics indicate that there is enough interest, they should continue going forward and they likely will because - money. The holy trinity is a given (Vanilla, BC, WoTLK). Going up to and including wrath is likely. Cata, while it is the most widely hated expansion, would still yield a large enough fan base to justify its re-release financially. There are 2-3 private servers running Cata and a large enough built in community to justify hosting Cata (5-15k strong on private - which would represent a fraction of those who would end up playing). Cata is also the most competitive version of arena balance we have ever seen and is held in high regard by much of the hardcore PvP scene.

People look at these expansions and compare fan interest to retail WoW, implying you need millions of subs to justify relaunching a game... There are plenty of successful MMO's that survived with well under 1 million players for an extended period of time, and those companies had extensive overhead. The beauty of the Classic project is they are taking pre-existing intellectual property and re-releasing it. The icing on the cake is that the fanbase is begging them to NOT add anything to the games. They can essentially take their old content, pump it out on life support and yield profit. These games take a skeleton crew of 5-10 people (maybe less now that the infrastructure has been merged) to launch and then require only the necessary staffing to meet the demand of the playerbase. The overhead is low creating a huge opportunity to generate profit with minimal overhead/risk.

Its easy to sit here and echo "Cata sucks", but the reality is that while most of us didnt like Cata (me included), it would still draw a large enough financial yield to be worth considering.

g0bledyg00k wrote:
4 months ago
Never making a single investment again until I 100% know it pays off.
2000 IQ :wink:
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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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Stfuppercut wrote:
2 weeks ago
People look at these expansions and compare fan interest to retail WoW, implying you need millions of subs to justify relaunching a game... There are plenty of successful MMO's that survived with well under 1 million players for an extended period of time, and those companies had extensive overhead. The beauty of the Classic project is they are taking pre-existing intellectual property and re-releasing it. The icing on the cake is that the fanbase is begging them to NOT add anything to the games. They can essentially take their old content, pump it out on life support and yield profit. These games take a skeleton crew of 5-10 people (maybe less now that the infrastructure has been merged) to launch and then require only the necessary staffing to meet the demand of the playerbase. The overhead is low creating a huge opportunity to generate profit with minimal overhead/risk.

Its easy to sit here and echo "Cata sucks", but the reality is that while most of us didnt like Cata (me included), it would still draw a large enough financial yield to be worth considering.
The issue is that even at the end of the TBC Wow went to the wrong way and need custom fixes. 2.3 nerf of the experience should be cut, 2.4 got rid of the attunements, which is a crime, the introduction of the MgT dungeon with welfare epics was a shitfest, Isle of the Quel'Danas should be available since launch because it's a world PvP treasure with its reward nerfed to the 2.0 standards. And later expansions need even more work to fight off the corruption of the current retail systems. Like, Cata on the launch was really good, but WotLK was on its peak only during Ulduar days.

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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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Zhukiipauk wrote:
1 week ago
The issue is that even at the end of the TBC Wow went to the wrong way and need custom fixes. 2.3 nerf of the experience should be cut, 2.4 got rid of the attunements, which is a crime, the introduction of the MgT dungeon with welfare epics was a shitfest, Isle of the Quel'Danas should be available since launch because it's a world PvP treasure with its reward nerfed to the 2.0 standards. And later expansions need even more work to fight off the corruption of the current retail systems. Like, Cata on the launch was really good, but WotLK was on its peak only during Ulduar days.
But WoW went the "wrong way" for everyone at a different point in time. If we start to try and rewrite the past to appease people, it will be a wasted effort because there is no chance that you can appease everyone. The goal of the project is easy money. Keep the cost low and the profits high. Blizz has demonstrated with Classic that they are willing to alter some aspects of the game (for better or for worse) but that they have fairly consistently set a precedent that they want to keep things the same as they were. If we look at the changes Blizz made in regards to Classic, the very few changes they made were fairly disastrous... I look back at layering, the prelaunch name reserves, balancing issues, the squish to patch 1.13 and progressive itemization among a long laundry list of other concerns.

Dont get me wrong. I could sit here and write off an entire list of "custom fixes" that would make Classic a better experience for ME, and what I think would be a better version of the game. But as can be seen on this very forum, everyone has a different vision and its often the least experienced players who have the loudest voices, which is concerning.

So what is more reasonable? The company takes around 5 people making 40,000-100,000$ annual salary for about 6 months of work and re-release TBC as it was, with as few custom changes as possible? OR do they go down the rabbit hole of creating a custom game that addresses your specific concerns that are entirely different from everyone elses concerns, they then pay a team of about 20+ people for a re-imagination of an existing piece that takes 1-2 years to develop and release? and why...? What if youre wrong. And what if youre right, but the fans prefer familiarity(as they do) and the masses of mindless drones shrieking "no changes" have lower standards than you do and deeper wallets collectively?

You aren't wrong, you're just not being realistic. Blizz is a company. Companies like money. TBC(unaltered) = money. Blizz likes TBC as it was and will deliver the product as a "no changes" recreation, that will unfortunately have some misguided changes, as Classic did, but will mostly be consistent with the original.

g0bledyg00k wrote:
4 months ago
Never making a single investment again until I 100% know it pays off.
2000 IQ :wink:
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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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TBC no changes will be like printing money for Blizzard. TBC/Wrath are already adored by a large % of the fan-base and have proven successful on private servers. I am more than happy for Classic TBC as it presents me with another opportunity to enjoy what I enjoyed 13 years ago, just like I am enjoying reliving Classic from 15 years ago. Classic != Vanilla, but it is still a lot of fun, especially with friends.

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6 days ago (1.13.2)
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RedridgeGnoll wrote:
7 months ago
I want Blizzard to release TBC so I can watch it fail. So players will finally realize that the design of the expansions are what killed World of Warcraft. The design decisions that plague Battle for Azeroth were born in The Burning Crusade.

I want The Burning Crusade after Classic, so that rose-tinted glasses can shatter. It will only further solidfy the greatness of Classic WoW.

I want them to remember how bland and boring Outland is.

I want them to remember the faction imbalance issues that were prevalent when Blood Elves joined the Horde.

I want them to remember how much better Horde was than Alliance.

I want them to remember how Warcraft lore was destroyed in The Burning Crusade.

I want them how to remember how everyone was stuck on a 7 zone continent, with zones that were often empty like Blade's Edge Mountains.

I want them to remember how flying mounts killed off World PvP and shrunk the 7 zone continent to an even smaller size.

I want them to remember how grindy the attunements were just to do a raid.

I want them to remember how uncreative TBC dungeons were.

I want them to remember how imbalanced Arena was.

I want them to remember how disruptive Resilience was to World PvP.

I want them to remember how everyone on both factions walked in circles around Shattrah all day.

I want them to remember how awful Shattrah was as a capital city.

I want them to remember what a chore raiding Black Temple for 1 year was.

I want the truth to be exposed.
Ive played Tbc back in the day, and i played tbc on many private servers. and i enjoyed it way more than Vanila.
It would honestly be very stupid for blizzard to not go tbc. many pepole want tbc , many pepole like tbc aka
releasing tbc = large profit for Blizzard.

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5 days ago (1.13.2)
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Westorz wrote:
2 weeks ago
If they do TBC they'd also have to keep going and do Wrath, Cata etc
No they don't. They can stop at any time, and probably will after MoP, because the number of people who want legacy Warlords servers can be counted on one hand.
Stfuppercut wrote:
2 weeks ago
Cata, while it is the most widely hated expansion
You misspelled Warlords.
Zhukiipauk wrote:
1 week ago
The issue is that even at the end of the TBC Wow went to the wrong way
WoW has been going the right way in some ways, and the wrong way in other ways, for its entire history. The only absolute steps down with no redeeming qualities at all were Warlords and BfA.
Zhukiipauk wrote:
1 week ago
2.4 got rid of the attunements, which is a crime
God I hope they don't get rid of the attunements. I want an authentic Burning crusade experience!

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5 days ago (1.13.2)
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Black Monarch wrote:
5 days ago
I want an authentic Burning crusade experience!
Same!

It was hell going through it and looking at it as a whole but was a great journey knowing all the blood, sweat and tears that went into it!

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5 days ago (1.13.2)
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The biggest problem, in my mind, is not taking an ultimative stance on what happens to the player base. Even though a lot of people want, I think having both Vanilla and BC classic is a mistake. If they release BC, Vanilla should die. I'm saying this even as someone who originally advocated for classic+ (which at this point I really doubt will happen).

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4 days ago (1.13.2)
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Bumlebi wrote:
5 days ago
The biggest problem, in my mind, is not taking an ultimative stance on what happens to the player base. Even though a lot of people want, I think having both Vanilla and BC classic is a mistake. If they release BC, Vanilla should die. I'm saying this even as someone who originally advocated for classic+ (which at this point I really doubt will happen).
I sure hope blizzard doesn't push me off their servers and into private servers. The whole point of Classic was to not have to be on shoddy private servers which get shut down every 6 or 7 months.

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3 days ago (1.13.2)
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RedridgeGnoll wrote:
7 months ago
Stfuppercut wrote:
7 months ago
rijndael wrote:
7 months ago
Stfuppercut, Selexin, teebling, hear me out. I know this is not a great thread by any means, and I'm most certainly not going to claim otherwise. It's attention grabbing, it's essentially a re-post from an existing thread, and the subject matter will invariably devolve into a shitfest.

However, if you look at RedridgeGnoll's responses to criticisms, he usually does take it in stride, and tends to stick to his original talking points, however poorly argued they may be. That demeanor does a lot to alleviate the tension and bitterness.

Black Monarch's threads on the other hand, are utterly vacuous and substantially inferior in quality by any measurable standard. His defensiveness heavily accentuates his insecurities, and his false sense of intellectual superiority bleeds into every response, leaving you with that Blizzard Official Forums taste in your mouth. He's obviously just doing it for Barrens Chat level ups.

Thoughts?
Monarch has poorly thought out ideas and very low effort posts that are designed to stimulate attention. Whether people agree with him or disagree with him, he chalks it up to a win. He just wants attention. If people post criticism about him, like this, he smirks and thinks he won and if they agree with him, he appreciates the acknowledgement. Just a very immature guy.

Redridge is just unstable. His ideas are completely awful and they never change. We are stuck in an endless loop with gnoll because his mind never moves and idea forward it just keeps replicating and regurgitating over and over and over and over... Redridges post kept this forum alive for many of the dead weeks, but not by his own design. We sort of profiteered off of his insanity and used it to keep our own while we waited for Classic.

They both of their place on the forums and I cant really choose which one causes more or less damage. Every village needs an idiot, and we're fortunate enough to have three (looking at you Duki). I actually still get excited when I see either of them post because its usually the calm before the storm and while their posts never really stimulate productive or valuable discourse, they do stimulate discourse. Without them most days would be filled with "What Class Should I Play? Is this suboptimal build viable? SLOW DOWN YOURE ALL GOING TOO FAST!!!", so I welcome their awful posts and will continue to post on them despite it being a complete and total waste of effort.
Edaewen wrote:
7 months ago
There is more Drama on here, than on my server LOL
Which is why I am still here. My servers community is dead ingame. Layering killed it. So I have my friends list, my guild, my server discord and Barrens chat.
Classic WoW is a casual game. It is not a game that is going to hold the attention of hardcore/competitive players. Look at the streaming community. They are exploiting and powering through the raid content as fast as possible. Some of them will use similar tactics onces battlegrounds are released, assuming these streamers are still playing by then. Most won't be. So the question is, how do you make Classic WoW more competitive. PvP is the answer. Nobody wants to watch Warsong Gulch or Arathi Basin. Players AFKing on flags. That is boring. Arena was Blizzard's answer to more competitive PvP. Arena was the wrong answer.

Classic WoW is special because of the open world. I realize that what Classic WoW is missing is better World PvP. That is why I make suggestions on how to improve World PvP in Classic. My ideas are not well developed admittedly and have many flaws. Some of them are outright stupid like that Zeppelin/Boats map I concocted. I receive a lot of great feedback on this forum, and the users here are actually willing to discuss and constructively criticize the suggestions I make, instead of spamming #nochanges.

Classic WoW is a great game, especially if you enjoy socializing and immersing yourself in a fantasy world. However, I realize that there are aspects of popular gaming that it is missing.
How can arena be the wrong answer? Arena is literally what many people used to play the game for, but no longer does, because it sucks at in its current state. I know alot of people whom would give their right testicle to bring back retail TBC/WotLK arena.

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3 days ago (1.13.2)
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Black Monarch wrote:
5 days ago
Stfuppercut wrote: ↑1 week ago
Cata, while it is the most widely hated expansion
You misspelled Warlords.
Not gonna lie. I'd stick up for Cataclysm. The content was meh but I always thought that it was the game's peak in terms of individual spec design. I played so many characters. Every spec of mage, Prot Paladin, Resto Shaman, Boomkin and Bear druid, Affliction and Destro lock, shadow priest, and fury warrior. Plus the content was never really bad til Dragon Soul, which tanked the reputation of the entire expansion and then we spent basically half the life span of the expansion on the Dragon Soul patch.

As far as server situation...I have no clue how to resolve this. On one hand, I think there will be contingency of players who want to stay playing vanilla and I don't blame them. I want to replay all the expansions so I'll gladly play through MoP and then start over with vanilla again. Maybe that's the real solution: just roll over servers into the next expansion and just put out new servers for classic to start back up in like 2028 when MoP is done. If people will really miss vanilla, they can just wait. Not sure it's a great answer that pleases everyone, but keep organized all the server possibilities seems like a fiasco:

Imagine its 2024. Wrath Classic is out. But there's also still a TBC batch of servers, and there's a group of people playing the original Vanilla servers, but also a group of vanilla players demanding a fresh set of Vanilla servers to start over on. And there are others demanding that new TBC servers come up because they missed the beginning of TBC as they were still playing vanilla. And there are people who want to stay on BC and want fresh BC servers to start over on. And then there are some people who want to play on servers that circulate from Classic to BC then start over and play the same character on both of those. And how character transfers work through all of these would be a fiasco.

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