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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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I want Blizzard to release TBC so I can watch it fail. So players will finally realize that the design of the expansions are what killed World of Warcraft. The design decisions that plague Battle for Azeroth were born in The Burning Crusade.

I want The Burning Crusade after Classic, so that rose-tinted glasses can shatter. It will only further solidfy the greatness of Classic WoW.

I want them to remember how bland and boring Outland is.

I want them to remember the faction imbalance issues that were prevalent when Blood Elves joined the Horde.

I want them to remember how much better Horde was than Alliance.

I want them to remember how Warcraft lore was destroyed in The Burning Crusade.

I want them how to remember how everyone was stuck on a 7 zone continent, with zones that were often empty like Blade's Edge Mountains.

I want them to remember how flying mounts killed off World PvP and shrunk the 7 zone continent to an even smaller size.

I want them to remember how grindy the attunements were just to do a raid.

I want them to remember how uncreative TBC dungeons were.

I want them to remember how imbalanced Arena was.

I want them to remember how disruptive Resilience was to World PvP.

I want them to remember how everyone on both factions walked in circles around Shattrah all day.

I want them to remember how awful Shattrah was as a capital city.

I want them to remember what a chore raiding Black Temple for 1 year was.

I want the truth to be exposed.

Hunter Marksman
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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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Yea making money is dumb. You should run Blizzard. I'm sure you would massively boost their profit margins.

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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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Stfuppercut wrote:
1 week ago
Yea making money is dumb. You should run Blizzard. I'm sure you would massively boost their profit margins.
Not if you can make more money keeping Classic alive and growing, rather than release an expansion that is mostly just nostalgia and will be abandoned right away.

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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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RedridgeGnoll wrote:
1 week ago
Not if you can make more money keeping Classic alive and growing, rather than release an expansion that is mostly just nostalgia and will be abandoned right away.
TBC is Classic growing smarty pants.

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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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I agree that some of the concepts that made WoW a boring Player Engagement Engine were born in the Burning Crusade. I also feel that it's when those concepts were actually good, and I wouldn't mind experiencing them again.

25-man raids - These were far more manageable, while maintaining that feeling of being a small, singularly weak but collectively powerful war party charging head-first into the lair of something truly awesome and terrible.

Daily Quests - At their conception during The Burning Crusade, daily quests felt like a fun, totally optional way to earn additional gold and rewards. I do not feel that they were the chore-like slog that they eventually evolved in to.

Interesting 5-mans - I will be the first to admit that the 5-man dungeons in The Burning Crusade were significantly more linear than those in Classic, but the encounters were much more memorable with more interesting mechanics. The heroic dungeons and their accompanying attunements were by far my favorite part of the expansion.

Karazhan - In my opinion, this is still my favorite raid with its funhouse-meets-spooky mansion flavor.

More importantly, I feel that The Burning Crusade maintained the difficulty of WoW Classic while adding a lot of flavor and many more things to do.

   couchatron
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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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If you want Classic+ or whatever you can go and play on private servers.

No one cares about your opinion on how they could "improve" the game or whatever because you're not a game designer and you're probably not as good or knowledgeable about the game as you think you are. As soon as you open the can of worms with "let's develop classic further and add new content" cs then you're down for endless drama.

From a game design philosophy manner making Classic/TBC is easy and simple - simply create (or attempt to recreate) the most historically accurate recreation of the game to the best of their extent. By going into the "let's develop this further" you will never satisfy anyone. New content zones and raids could/would invalidate previous ones. Balance patches could/would invalidate certain specs and classes or make hybrid classes the go-to specs if they excel at everything.

RedridgeGnoll wrote:
1 week ago
an expansion that is mostly just nostalgia and will be abandoned right away
That is exactly what retailers said about Vanilla time and again and it's been proven wrong. A lot of people started playing in TBC and regard as the best expansion that ever was.

Everything you wrote there sounds exactly what a retailer could say about Vanilla right now. Hurr-durr leveling a paladin was so boring. Hurr durr Alliance racials in PvE are OP. Hurr durr BGs and DHKs destroyed WPvP. Hurr durr getting to 60 was such a grind. Hurr durr classes were so imbalanced. Your opinion is really not welcome.

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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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Nymis wrote:
1 week ago
If you want Classic+ or whatever you can go and play on private servers.

No one cares about your opinion on how they could "improve" the game or whatever because you're not a game designer and you're probably not as good or knowledgeable about the game as you think you are. As soon as you open the can of worms with "let's develop classic further and add new content" cs then you're down for endless drama.

From a game design philosophy manner making Classic/TBC is easy and simple - simply create (or attempt to recreate) the most historically accurate recreation of the game to the best of their extent. By going into the "let's develop this further" you will never satisfy anyone. New content zones and raids could/would invalidate previous ones. Balance patches could/would invalidate certain specs and classes or make hybrid classes the go-to specs if they excel at everything.
RedridgeGnoll wrote:
1 week ago
an expansion that is mostly just nostalgia and will be abandoned right away
That is exactly what retailers said about Vanilla time and again and it's been proven wrong. A lot of people started playing in TBC and regard as the best expansion that ever was.

Everything you wrote there sounds exactly what a retailer could say about Vanilla right now. Hurr-durr leveling a paladin was so boring. Hurr durr Alliance racials in PvE are OP. Hurr durr BGs and DHKs destroyed WPvP. Hurr durr getting to 60 was such a grind. Hurr durr classes were so imbalanced. Your opinion is really not welcome.
There is no need for Blizzard to make the same mistake twice. TBC will crash and burn if they re-release it. I will have my laughs. Nostalgia is a real thing.

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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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I hope they consider creating more raids and expanding classic.

   Gensei
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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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I don't see why we have to resent other players being able to experience their favourite time from WoW's history.

Some people liked Classic, cool.

Some people liked TBC, cool.

Let them play on their own legacy servers, Blizzard makes bank and everyone's happy.

Rogue Combat
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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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RedridgeGnoll wrote:
1 week ago
I want The Burning Crusade after Classic, so that rose-tinted glasses can shatter. It will only further solidfy the greatness of Classic WoW.
A metric shit ton of people said the same thing about classic.

Teldrassil
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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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Classic+ is mostly a joke already. It doesn't even make much sense from design perspective. TBC is the way to go for majority of people imo.

Faendur, the Creepy Dwarf
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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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I want Knoll to stop making threads.

I want him to stop stating he has all the answers.

I want him to delete his account and move on from Barrens chat.

I want him to step back and see how Classic/Vanilla was a successful game and not to try to change it.

I want him to stop thinking games need to be perfect in order to be good or even fun or even stay alive.

I want him to realize that he has opinions that not everyone has.....


To stay on topic before he attacks me on not staying on point.
I disagree with the garbage you are spewing on the internet....
I enjoyed TBC more than Vanilla...
I enjoyed heroics, I enjoyed the tier sets, dungeons and raids TBC has to offer
PVP to me, both world and arena and BGs were better!
I had tons a fun playing TBC more than vanilla even though i played more in vanilla and did/achieved more in vanilla.
I hope they do make it after Classic becomes a success!

People on these forums like stfuppercut, selexin, pipp, nymis, faendor and many more may believe or think that classic/vanilla and tbc is flawed (can't speak for them) but they dont go around attacking the game and saying this needs to be done and have hatred towards it...at least i hope not

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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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Nyxt wrote:
1 week ago
I want Knoll to stop making threads.

I want him to stop stating he has all the answers.

I want him to delete his account and move on from Barrens chat.

I want him to step back and see how Classic/Vanilla was a successful game and not to try to change it.

I want him to stop thinking games need to be perfect in order to be good or even fun.

I want him to realize that he has opinions that not everyone has.....


To stay on topic before he attacks me on not staying on point.
I disagree with the garbage you are spewing on the internet....
I enjoyed TBC more than Vanilla...
I enjoyed heroics, I enjoyed the tier sets, dungeons and raids TBC has to offer
PVP to me, both world and arena and BGs were better!
I had tons a fun playing TBC more than vanilla even though i played more in vanilla and did/achieved more in vanilla.
I hope they do make it after Classic becomes a success!

People on these forums like stfuppercut, selexin, pipp, nymis, faendor and many more may believe or think that classic/vanilla and tbc is flawed (can ont speak for them) but they dont go around attacking the game and saying this needs to be done and have hatred towards it...at least i hope not

I have been "hating" on Vanilla since before it even released. Yet I think it is one of the best games ever. I have advocated and argued for its re-release before TBC even launched. Vanilla is the best version of Classic, and offers an open world massive multiplayer experience you can't find in gaming nowadays.

That being said, there is a lot that I disagree with. Classic isn't even true Vanilla. It is patch 1.12, which has damaging systems like crossrealm battlegrounds. I was always under the impression that Classic WoW could have been even better than it was. Sadly we got TBC instead.

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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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RedridgeGnoll wrote:
1 week ago
Classic isn't even true Vanilla. It is patch 1.12
Even if you release the 2004/05 version of vanilla, its still not vanilla.
You can not recreate vanilla as it was.
So they are, in my mind, bringing back how WoW used to be with the RPG elements and experience/feeling (slow pace).
RedridgeGnoll wrote:
1 week ago
Sadly we got TBC instead.
What in god's name...not even...

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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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Nyxt wrote:
1 week ago
RedridgeGnoll wrote:
1 week ago
Classic isn't even true Vanilla. It is patch 1.12
Even if you release the 2004/05 version of vanilla, its still not vanilla.
You can not recreate vanilla as it was.
So they are, in my mind, bringing back how WoW used to be with the RPG elements and experience/feeling (slow pace).
RedridgeGnoll wrote:
1 week ago
Sadly we got TBC instead.
What in god's name...not even...
Yeah. I think TBC ruined the game and led to its current state. Less social interaction. More instanced gameplay. Fewer zones. Faster travel. Poor reward structures etc.. TBC started all that. Vanilla was server-only until the very end, meaning you only played with players on your own server. I am convinced players are nostalgic about TBC, and that it wouldn't be as well received today.

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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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RedridgeGnoll wrote:
1 week ago
Yeah. I think TBC ruined the game and led to its current state. Less social interaction. More instanced gameplay. Fewer zones. Faster travel. Poor reward structures etc.. TBC started all that. Vanilla wad server-only until the very end, meaning you only played with players on your own server. I am convinced players are nostalgic about TBC, and that it wouldn't be as well received today.
I agree that TBC was the start to becoming what BFA is today and what the other expansions were.
Eventually being this casual, almost arcade style game.
But it doesnt make TBC a bad game/expierence.
You can have flaws in a game and it can still be great!

Like i said numerous times I enjoyed TBC alot!
I also enjoyed Wrath but not as much as the other two...after that i think i grew out of playing the game and my friends stopped playing and real life/responsibilities hit me!

I dont think i am nostalgia about vanilla and TBC, maybe a little, but I enjoy the RPG element immensely, art work and slow pace the game is!

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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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Why cant you just enjoy the game for now dude, its been out for a week lol

When the hunted tell tales of Gondar, none are sure of which are true. In whispered tones they say he was abandoned as a kit, learning his skill in tracking as a matter of simple survival. Others hear he was an orphan of war, taken in by the great Soruq the Hunter to learn the master's skill with a blade as they plumbed the dark forests for big game. Still others believe he was a lowly street urchin raised among a guild of cutpurses and thieves, trained in the arts of stealth and misdirection.
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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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@Stfuppercut, @Selexin, @teebling, hear me out. I know this is not a great thread by any means, and I'm most certainly not going to claim otherwise. It's attention grabbing, it's essentially a re-post from an existing thread, and the subject matter will invariably devolve into a shitfest.

However, if you look at @RedridgeGnoll's responses to criticisms, he usually does take it in stride, and tends to stick to his original talking points, however poorly argued they may be. That demeanor does a lot to alleviate the tension and bitterness.

@Black Monarch's threads on the other hand, are utterly vacuous and substantially inferior in quality by any measurable standard. His defensiveness heavily accentuates his insecurities, and his false sense of intellectual superiority bleeds into every response, leaving you with that Blizzard Official Forums taste in your mouth. He's obviously just doing it for Barrens Chat level ups.

Thoughts?

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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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There is more Drama on here, than on my server LOL

   Stfuppercut
When the hunted tell tales of Gondar, none are sure of which are true. In whispered tones they say he was abandoned as a kit, learning his skill in tracking as a matter of simple survival. Others hear he was an orphan of war, taken in by the great Soruq the Hunter to learn the master's skill with a blade as they plumbed the dark forests for big game. Still others believe he was a lowly street urchin raised among a guild of cutpurses and thieves, trained in the arts of stealth and misdirection.
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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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rijndael wrote:
1 week ago
Stfuppercut, Selexin, teebling, hear me out. I know this is not a great thread by any means, and I'm most certainly not going to claim otherwise. It's attention grabbing, it's essentially a re-post from an existing thread, and the subject matter will invariably devolve into a shitfest.

However, if you look at RedridgeGnoll's responses to criticisms, he usually does take it in stride, and tends to stick to his original talking points, however poorly argued they may be. That demeanor does a lot to alleviate the tension and bitterness.

Black Monarch's threads on the other hand, are utterly vacuous and substantially inferior in quality by any measurable standard. His defensiveness heavily accentuates his insecurities, and his false sense of intellectual superiority bleeds into every response, leaving you with that Blizzard Official Forums taste in your mouth. He's obviously just doing it for Barrens Chat level ups.

Thoughts?
Monarch has poorly thought out ideas and very low effort posts that are designed to stimulate attention. Whether people agree with him or disagree with him, he chalks it up to a win. He just wants attention. If people post criticism about him, like this, he smirks and thinks he won and if they agree with him, he appreciates the acknowledgement. Just a very immature guy.

Redridge is just unstable. His ideas are completely awful and they never change. We are stuck in an endless loop with gnoll because his mind never moves and idea forward it just keeps replicating and regurgitating over and over and over and over... Redridges post kept this forum alive for many of the dead weeks, but not by his own design. We sort of profiteered off of his insanity and used it to keep our own while we waited for Classic.

They both of their place on the forums and I cant really choose which one causes more or less damage. Every village needs an idiot, and we're fortunate enough to have three (looking at you Duki). I actually still get excited when I see any of them post because its usually the calm before the storm and while their posts never really stimulate productive or valuable discourse, they do stimulate discourse. Without them most days would be filled with "What Class Should I Play? Is this suboptimal build viable? SLOW DOWN YOURE ALL GOING TOO FAST!!!", so I welcome their awful posts and will continue to post on them despite it being a complete and total waste of effort. I will continue to post because I get personal enjoyment out of posting on some of their meaningless threads.
Edaewen wrote:
1 week ago
There is more Drama on here, than on my server LOL
Which is why I am still here. My servers community is dead ingame. Layering killed it. So I have my friends list, my guild, my server discord and Barrens chat.

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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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Edaewen wrote:
1 week ago
There is more Drama on here, than on my server LOL
If you think this is drama. You should have seen my guild chat on Grobbulus.

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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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RedridgeGnoll wrote:
1 week ago
Edaewen wrote:
1 week ago
There is more Drama on here, than on my server LOL
If you think this is drama. You should have seen my guild chat on Grobbulus.
The common denominator there being Gnoll. Who likely caused the drama if I had to guess bahahaa.

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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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Stfuppercut wrote:
1 week ago
rijndael wrote:
1 week ago
Stfuppercut, Selexin, teebling, hear me out. I know this is not a great thread by any means, and I'm most certainly not going to claim otherwise. It's attention grabbing, it's essentially a re-post from an existing thread, and the subject matter will invariably devolve into a shitfest.

However, if you look at RedridgeGnoll's responses to criticisms, he usually does take it in stride, and tends to stick to his original talking points, however poorly argued they may be. That demeanor does a lot to alleviate the tension and bitterness.

Black Monarch's threads on the other hand, are utterly vacuous and substantially inferior in quality by any measurable standard. His defensiveness heavily accentuates his insecurities, and his false sense of intellectual superiority bleeds into every response, leaving you with that Blizzard Official Forums taste in your mouth. He's obviously just doing it for Barrens Chat level ups.

Thoughts?
Monarch has poorly thought out ideas and very low effort posts that are designed to stimulate attention. Whether people agree with him or disagree with him, he chalks it up to a win. He just wants attention. If people post criticism about him, like this, he smirks and thinks he won and if they agree with him, he appreciates the acknowledgement. Just a very immature guy.

Redridge is just unstable. His ideas are completely awful and they never change. We are stuck in an endless loop with gnoll because his mind never moves and idea forward it just keeps replicating and regurgitating over and over and over and over... Redridges post kept this forum alive for many of the dead weeks, but not by his own design. We sort of profiteered off of his insanity and used it to keep our own while we waited for Classic.

They both of their place on the forums and I cant really choose which one causes more or less damage. Every village needs an idiot, and we're fortunate enough to have three (looking at you Duki). I actually still get excited when I see either of them post because its usually the calm before the storm and while their posts never really stimulate productive or valuable discourse, they do stimulate discourse. Without them most days would be filled with "What Class Should I Play? Is this suboptimal build viable? SLOW DOWN YOURE ALL GOING TOO FAST!!!", so I welcome their awful posts and will continue to post on them despite it being a complete and total waste of effort.
Edaewen wrote:
1 week ago
There is more Drama on here, than on my server LOL
Which is why I am still here. My servers community is dead ingame. Layering killed it. So I have my friends list, my guild, my server discord and Barrens chat.
Classic WoW is a casual game. It is not a game that is going to hold the attention of hardcore/competitive players. Look at the streaming community. They are exploiting and powering through the raid content as fast as possible. Some of them will use similar tactics onces battlegrounds are released, assuming these streamers are still playing by then. Most won't be. So the question is, how do you make Classic WoW more competitive. PvP is the answer. Nobody wants to watch Warsong Gulch or Arathi Basin. Players AFKing on flags. That is boring. Arena was Blizzard's answer to more competitive PvP. Arena was the wrong answer.

Classic WoW is special because of the open world. I realize that what Classic WoW is missing is better World PvP. That is why I make suggestions on how to improve World PvP in Classic. My ideas are not well developed admittedly and have many flaws. Some of them are outright stupid like that Zeppelin/Boats map I concocted. I receive a lot of great feedback on this forum, and the users here are actually willing to discuss and constructively criticize the suggestions I make, instead of spamming #nochanges.

Classic WoW is a great game, especially if you enjoy socializing and immersing yourself in a fantasy world. However, I realize that there are aspects of popular gaming that it is missing.

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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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RedridgeGnoll wrote:
1 week ago
Classic WoW is a casual game. It is not a game that is going to hold the attention of hardcore/competitive players.
Private server players disagree with you.
RedridgeGnoll wrote:
1 week ago
Look at the streaming community.
Which is not representative of the hardcore community. They are streaming. Their content needs to be watchable. They will stream Classic until it no longer draws the most eyes and move on. A streamers stay in Classic is not representative of the hardcore draw towards Classic.

The other gibberish gets brought up by you each and every day and has been addressed. Youre wrong. Develop the idea a bit more and try to get a better delivery.

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1 week ago (1.13.2)
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Stfuppercut wrote:
1 week ago
RedridgeGnoll wrote:
1 week ago
Classic WoW is a casual game. It is not a game that is going to hold the attention of hardcore/competitive players.
Private server players disagree with you.
RedridgeGnoll wrote:
1 week ago
Look at the streaming community.
Which is not representative of the hardcore community. They are streaming. Their content needs to be watchable. They will stream Classic until it no longer draws the most eyes and move on. A streamers stay in Classic is not representative of the hardcore draw towards Classic.

The other gibberish gets brought up by you each and every day and has been addressed. Youre wrong. Develop the idea a bit more and try to get a better delivery.
Blizzard agrees with me. Look at retail. The PvE is more challenging. The PvP is more competitive. There is no argument there

A lot of the players streaming Classic WoW are competitive. Many of them are top Arena players or Raiders. Some of the other streamers are competitive fps players. Classic WoW PvP lacks any competitive systems or ratings apart from honor grinding in battlegrounds. Nobody wants to watch or stream that. That is why I am devising a World PvP system for Classic WoW. Doing crossrealm Warsong Gulch in 2019 won't hold much interest for long.

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