Paladin Protection
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Human
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4 weeks ago (Beta)
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Black Monarch wrote:
4 weeks ago
Kuro wrote:
4 weeks ago
make your mage a gnome
Gnomes have +10 to engineering. Engineering is obviously a hunter profession. Therefore, if you're going to roll a gnome, you should make him/her a hunter.
+15 even. But gnomes can't be hunters in vanilla

Russian guy playing on EU PvP Firemaw, looking for an English speaking casual social guild.
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Ashenvale
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4 weeks ago (Beta)
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You're forgetting the hidden racial that gnomes have - everybody hates gnomes. So when you kill somebody in PVP, when you dip your tiny little nutsack in their face and then bunnyhop away from their corpse while spamming /train you can almost see them throwing their keyboards in anger. This is the real gnome racial talent.

Pippina - Level 5 Gnome Warrior (alt) | Beardozer - Level 36 Night Elf Druid (Main)
Rogue Combat
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4 weeks ago (Beta)
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Pluuf wrote:
4 weeks ago
Hey there,

It seems like you are on the fence between visuals and minmax mentality. Ask yourself the question: Are you physically capable of getting to level 60 as a gnome? Even if you are a fast speedrunner, that's 5 days of playtime, a.k.a. 119 hours watching a gnome doing casting, running, dying and drinking.

Now let's compare your endgame Gnome to your endgame Human. I use Sixtyupgrades for this, it's a nice tool.

Here is the gnome:
https://sixtyupgrades.com/set/q2P98QfcVT1yBTjgZKbqSr

Here is the human:
https://sixtyupgrades.com/set/hWntnfSNHTNZvhjAMChi4j

I notice that Sixtyupgrades.com does not account for racials, but w/e, we can calculate that ourselves.

So our mages have 304 intellect at level 60 in pretty good gear. Naxx level gear. Now if we add 5% to that, we get a whopping 319 intellect. that's a 15 intellect difference, in the upper limits of good gear. That's 225 mana and 0.25% crit. A max rank frostbolt costs 290 mana, so going Gnome gives you just one frostbolt less. Is that worth looking at silly animations for 119 hours in leveling alone, while not even accounting for all the endgame content you are going to do in order to get to that level of gear?

We all know the answer to that question. Go human. :wink:
this seems wrong. there is no way a human and gnome mage have exactly the same attributes at level 60 in the same gear.
first of all there is just the baseline differences between the two classes. humans would have higher str for one.
for two due to racials the human would have higher spirit and the gnome would have higher intellect.

Paladin Retribution
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Human
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4 weeks ago (Beta)
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Instinctz wrote:
4 weeks ago
this seems wrong. there is no way a human and gnome mage have exactly the same attributes at level 60 in the same gear.
first of all there is just the baseline differences between the two classes. humans would have higher str for one.
for two due to racials the human would have higher spirit and the gnome would have higher intellect.
Yes I noticed that too, that's why I wrote "
I notice that Sixtyupgrades.com does not account for racials, but w/e, we can calculate that ourselves.
"
But its a negligible difference. And if you can't stand the character model for so long and reroll / burn out and quit you sure are casting a lot more frost bolts as a human.

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3 weeks ago (Beta)
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Black Monarch wrote:
4 weeks ago
Kuro wrote:
4 weeks ago
make your mage a gnome
Gnomes have +10 to engineering. Engineering is obviously a hunter profession. Therefore, if you're going to roll a gnome, you should make him/her a hunter.
Gnomes can't be hunters.

Hunter Marksman
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3 weeks ago (Beta)
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Gnome is better. The difference in this circumstance is pretty negligible. I'll remove aesthetics from the conversation because those are subjective and OP can decide what is prettiest on his own. The topic in this case is "Human mage WAY weaker than Gnome mage?" OP is not asking for your opinion on aesthetics. And no OP, the human is not WAY weaker. They are very comparable races for mage with the gnome edging out humans slightly.

Mulgore
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Tauren
3 weeks ago (Beta)
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Now let's do this thread but for Warlock.

   Stfuppercut
I have nothing fancy to add here, but if you've never played Binary Domain, you should.
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Hunter Marksman
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3 weeks ago (Beta)
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Jon Bloodspray wrote:
3 weeks ago
Now let's do this thread but for Warlock.
Groundhog day, every day.

Someone asks questions about min/maxing their toon that they could have just googled. Most people reply while giving an answer based on aesthetics. Me and a few others give a min/max answer to a min/max question. Tomorrow we do the same thing but with warlocks.

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Horde
3 weeks ago (Beta)
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The correct answer is go horde so you don't have to be a midget for the best racials.

Mulgore
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Tauren
3 weeks ago (Beta)
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Stfuppercut wrote:
3 weeks ago
Jon Bloodspray wrote:
3 weeks ago
Now let's do this thread but for Warlock.
Groundhog day, every day.

Someone asks questions about min/maxing their toon that they could have just googled. Most people reply while giving an answer based on aesthetics. Me and a few others give a min/max answer to a min/max question. Tomorrow we do the same thing but with warlocks.
I spent the last couple days going back and forth between Gnome and Human warlock honestly. A LOT of info out there says the 5% is negligible and to take Human for the rep boost. The way I see it though, is after the reps are exalted, that serves literally zero purpose. I purposely didn't ask here because I knew it would play out exactly as you described.

I have nothing fancy to add here, but if you've never played Binary Domain, you should.
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Azshara
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3 weeks ago (Beta)
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Gnomes for min-max'ing due to their 5% int which is useful with endgame gear, but me personally I'm going human warlock and one reason behind that would be the Diplomacy passive "BUT Madcraft Diplomacy doesn't matter cause it only shaves like a week off the rep grind" that could potentially be said for a rep yes, but hear me out. For recipes alone for my two professions I have to grind SIX different reputations and that isn't including alt professions. If that means shaving off six weeks I am okay with that.

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3 weeks ago (Beta)
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Gnomes get the intelligence racial is why i'm assuming. That's a good amount.

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3 weeks ago (Beta)
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Jon Bloodspray wrote:
3 weeks ago
The way I see it though, is after the reps are exalted, that serves literally zero purpose.
Racials that expire are uninteresting and are not valuable to me.

Desolace
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3 weeks ago (Beta)
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Grindhouse wrote:
4 weeks ago
Play what you like the most, that goes for every class/race. Unless you are going to join a super hardcore guild i wouldn't min/max. If you don't connect with your character whats the point in doing a little better on meters etc.

Play to have fun (unless your a ret pala rofl)
... That's cruel... :cry:

OP, go where your heart tells you. As the other have said the difference is there, but it is not so huge that using a human is actually akin to shooting yourself in the foot!

   Pluuf
Loch modan
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3 weeks ago (Beta)
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Hey everyone,

I have a completely new idea now: I just go Horde. There, I can roll an Undead mage that looks way cooler than a gnome. However, I am still indifferent. I have read countless threads on reddit etc. and everyone is basically saying that gnome is the best mage race in the whole game because Escape Artist is even better than Wrath of the Forsaken. Furthermore, troll mage seems to be better in PvE than Undead but I absolutely hate the look of Trolls (even more than gnomes). Since I want to roll a warrior next, I will definitely not make a human mage. So the question is...

Undead or gnome mage?

Shaman Enhancement
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3 weeks ago (Beta)
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Magezi wrote:
3 weeks ago
Hey everyone,

I have a completely new idea now: I just go Horde. There, I can roll an Undead mage that looks way cooler than a gnome. However, I am still indifferent. I have read countless threads on reddit etc. and everyone is basically saying that gnome is the best mage race in the whole game because Escape Artist is even better than Wrath of the Forsaken. Furthermore, troll mage seems to be better in PvE than Undead but I absolutely hate the look of Trolls (even more than gnomes). Since I want to roll a warrior next, I will definitely not make a human mage. So the question is...

Undead or gnome mage?
Dude...racials matter so little. Like if you want to hardcore PvP and be the best like no one ever was, then they matter some. But in PvE, it barely matters. Certainly not worth a two-page thread on it. There are other games where race matters far more and is worth the talk. But race difference is incredibly marginal in WoW, especially in PvE. Play what looks good and play what you can envision yourself playing for 7-9 days /played.

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4 days ago (1.13.2)
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Lmao at the 225 mana gnome advantage. Gnomes have 8 more int on their base stats. The int amount doesn't account for any buffs. Arcane Mind(if you go for that spec) provides 10% more mana, which again will amplify the gnome's advantage. Accounting for my "corrections", gnome will receive at least 25 intelligence more than a human, not 15. Which is either 375 more mana, or 412.5 more mana, depending on whether you spec arcane or not. This goes without pointing out tiny armor advantage(another talent) and critical chance increases, as well as other racials which are also favoring gnome. Honestly, 7%+ mana pool difference is a pretty big deal.

While levelling and non-maxed gnomes will have from 89% to 7% more mana depending on level and gear.. Yes, 89%. Level 1 trolls have 119 mana. Gnomes? 225 mana. Of course, humans have more mana than trolls, but gnomes really stand out by comparison to anyone.

As for character models and animations, I find female gnome more than acceptable. Should I also mention that having a tiny model can be considered an advantage of sorts?

Badlands
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4 days ago (1.13.2)
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Pluuf wrote:
4 weeks ago
That's 225 mana and 0.25% crit. A max rank frostbolt costs 290 mana, so going Gnome gives you just one frostbolt less. Is that worth looking at silly animations for 119 hours in leveling alone, while not even accounting for all the endgame content you are going to do in order to get to that level of gear?
lol I was going to point that out. Bottom line it's very negligible.

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Tanaris
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4 days ago (1.13.2)
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Black Monarch wrote:
4 weeks ago
Kuro wrote:
4 weeks ago
make your mage a gnome
Gnomes have +10 to engineering. Engineering is obviously a hunter profession. Therefore, if you're going to roll a gnome, you should make him/her a hunter.
Yes but what about pleasure? I play troll holy priest and troll shaman in pvp, i don't care if i'm not optimal! i respect people looking for things like that, but even a +10 in engineering will not make a strong difference. Engineering is nice but a little bit too much overrated imho.

sorry for the necro :oops:

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4 days ago (1.13.2)
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Kinzu wrote:
4 days ago
Yes but what about pleasure?
We're not here to have fun. Do you think this is some kind of game?

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Loch modan
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1 day ago (1.13.2)
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Just for your interest: I rolled a gnome. Level 37 atm and I don't regret it. Gnomes don't look that bad to be honest and human mages just look like muscular transvestites with their dresses. Escape artist has been useful in PvE as well (!)

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