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4 months ago (Beta)
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Hardiness is seriously a imbalanced racial in PvP. I would gladly go full CHANGES mode in order to nerf it. I have done a lot of duels in vanilla and it isn't uncommon for orcs to resist my Hammer of Justice 3 times in a row. That is literally 18 seconds they would be stunned in a 1v1 if they didn't choose Orc.

Ridiculous.

   Stfuppercut
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4 months ago (Beta)
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WotF, perma slow from mages, 3min 1 shot burst from mages, Fear Ward Priest, Perma CC rogues, Warlock SB hitting for 3k+. And many many imbalanced stuff. Sometimes you gotta accept it, that's why I rolled Orc, WotF seems op, but i'd rather be feared than stunned.

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Stupeed wrote:
4 months ago
WotF, perma slow from mages, 3min 1 shot burst from mages, Fear Ward Priest, Perma CC rogues, Warlock SB hitting for 3k+. And many many imbalanced stuff. Sometimes you gotta accept it, that's why I rolled Orc, WotF seems op, but i'd rather be feared than stunned.
Definitely feared over being stunned.

Being feared, your character is at least moving in random directions. You got higher chance of running out of sight, or enter line of sight from your enemy.

Stun just locks you in place and that's about it.

There's a lot of imbalanced stuff in this iteration of the game, and it's exactly what I want.

Orcs having Hardiness is the least of our imbalanced problems. Without Hardiness, Alliance rogues would be OP.

Winterspring
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Kare wrote:
4 months ago
Hardiness is seriously a imbalanced racial in PvP. I would gladly go full CHANGES mode in order to nerf it. I have done a lot of duels in vanilla and it isn't uncommon for orcs to resist my Hammer of Justice 3 times in a row. That is literally 18 seconds they would be stunned in a 1v1 if they didn't choose Orc.

Ridiculous.
I'm all for it! Also remove paladins with this change please. :biggrin:

No, we all have to live with imbalances and that's why I love classic and tbc. So you have to endure it. :wink:

Undercity
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4 months ago (Beta)
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maybe after they go through all six phases we can have a phase where they change things up. By that time maybe we'd all have had our fill of unbalanced classes and racials, and they could do some balancing.
But until then I'm actually pretty excited about stuff like this! I'm rolling a tauren melee character just to abuse their hit range!

Ironforge
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4 months ago (Beta)
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I'm honestly #nochanges aswell, but the hardiness racial is just killing me as I main pala and my only CC as reckoning is a stun that get resisted 24/7

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Kare wrote:
4 months ago
I'm honestly #nochanges aswell, but the hardiness racial is just killing me as I main pala and my only CC as reckoning is a stun that get resisted 24/7
Welcome to Classic! We wanted Classic, we got it!

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4 months ago (Beta)
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This is why I want vanilla and why it was so good!

The imbalance is amazing, I dont want an iteration where everything is balanced where everyone can dps, heal them selves, tank everything.
Before Death Knights came out soloing everything because they can tank heal and dps with the best, you needed to group to do gorup things.
And when you select a class you are actually feel unique compared to the other classes.

Hardness is just one of those things!
Rock Paper Scissor PvP, as much as it can suck made it awesome!

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Warrior Fury
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4 months ago (Beta)
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Agreed completely. Hardiness is broken. The majority of the community dont quite seem to understand the implications hardiness has. See many of my posts discussing the topic here on the forums. Even people who identify as PvPers and are recognized as PvP veterans within this community have no idea just how strong this racial is... Hardiness could receive a nerf to 15% stun resist and it would still be incredibly strong.

We see comments like this fairly often:

Nyxt wrote:
4 months ago
Hardness is just one of those things!
Rock Paper Scissor PvP, as much as it can suck made it awesome!
From people who dont understand that this removes Orcs from the rock paper scissors matchup and makes them the impenetrable shield as far as racials are concerned. Almost every class/spec has a stun. This passive is massive. Also, no internal cooldown. Broken. Not balanced or checked in any way. Just broken. Irrefutably imbalanced and overpowered.

How often do we hear about will of the forsaken though? Its like traveling in a time machine back to 2004 before we knew anything. Fortunately/unfortunately there is so much misinformation and such a lack of understanding in the community as a whole that we will still likely see an over-representation of undeads on horde VS the quantity of Orcs we should see.

- all of this coming from someone who mains Orcs.

   Kare Williams
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2000 IQ :wink:
Ironforge
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4 months ago (Beta)
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Stfuppercut, I agree. People who talk about it seem to have little knowledge as to how things are with racials etc. People even say Undead is better for Warlock in PvP still..

Chase an Orc and have your charge be resisted 4 times in a row(like happened to a streamer once) and come and say how fun the imbalance is.

   Stfuppercut
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4 months ago (Beta)
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Sadly I played Barrens PvP a lot on the stress test tonight and half the horde looked to be orc now. The sad reality of classic rereleased games... Everyone min maxes...

I'm not sure blizzard can really recapture true vannila, when the players biased choices are out of their control. Pure RP servers may be best for those that don't wanna deal with as much of it.

On a side note, WoW PvP hasn't really aged that well... It's a laggy mess compared to so many modern games. I'm calling it now... WoW classic will probably diminish in active population quite fast. Obviously people have issues as human beings understanding that we can never go back in time... WoW classic is basically just a Make WoW great again campaign.

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4 months ago (Beta)
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Stupeed wrote:
4 months ago
Warlock SB hitting for 3k+..
Mute
<RTZS>

Is that you?

/flex
Ashenvale
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4 months ago (Beta)
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Stfuppercut wrote:
4 months ago
Its like traveling in a time machine back to 2004 before we knew anything. Fortunately/unfortunately there is so much misinformation and such a lack of understanding in the community as a whole that we will still likely see an over-representation of undeads on horde VS the quantity of Orcs we should see.
I think this is a good counter-argument to the 'everybody is going to be better than they used to be back in 2004, everybody will be a god at the game' sentiment that I hear a lot. There's a lot of information about the game, so much that it's hard to know what to listen to. The signal to noise ratio can be pretty bad :lol:

Arathi Basin
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4 months ago (Beta)
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Kare wrote:
4 months ago
I'm honestly #nochanges aswell, but the hardiness racial is just killing me as I main pala and my only CC as reckoning is a stun that get resisted 24/7
Just do not try to Stun a Orc, easy or :o?

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Not everyone is the same which makes the game more real. You actually have some substantial decisions to make when choosing your toon. It's called Classic man and it's a beautiful thing.

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Zacheous wrote:
4 months ago
Not everyone is the same which makes the game more real. You actually have some substantial decisions to make when choosing your toon. It's called Classic man and it's a beautiful thing.
Not sure how this comment contributes to a discussion based on the balance of Hardiness in PvP. You're casual and you dont care about optimizing your class based on racials. Thats good! No need to jump into a discussion involving players who do optimize, just to voice your casual nature. The topic is specifically concerned with the balance (or imbalance) of the racial and its implications in competitive PvP.

g0bledyg00k wrote:
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Kare wrote: I'm honestly #nochanges aswell, but the hardiness racial is just killing me as I main pala and my only CC as reckoning is a stun that get resisted 24/7
Kare wrote: Hardiness is seriously a imbalanced racial in PvP. I would gladly go full CHANGES mode in order to nerf it. I have done a lot of duels in vanilla and it isn't uncommon for orcs to resist my Hammer of Justice 3 times in a row. That is literally 18 seconds they would be stunned in a 1v1 if they didn't choose Orc.

Ridiculous.
If you want changes then you aren't "#nochanges".

I made a relatively long thread about this same topic, Hardiness is very strong and it's not worth playing Alliance Rogue because of it. Do I want it changed? No. My first serious Rogue was Undead and now I know better, playing Orc this time around mostly because of Hardiness, it's incredibly strong. At an equal skill level Alliance usually wins premades anyway because of Paladin so yeah.

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