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This is my first time playing wow vanilla (i'm basically noob here hehe), and I already know that the optimal spec for shamans in raids is restoration. But i want to be dps shaman in raids so bad.

Do you think that focusing in enhancement for levening and then raiding is a great option in a 'semi-hardcore' guild?

Felwood
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Levelling yes. Raiding, only if you want to raid in a bad guild. The stigma is there for a reason, Enhancement sucks for raiding. If you want to raid as a Shaman you will heal. Unless you get "lucky" and get accepted to a bad guild that doesn't mind to carry you, or you can get in a pug that needs more Shaman for totems and they can't find any resto Shaman.

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I'm going enhance too, so I'll be right there with you!

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Zolid wrote:
2 months ago
This is my first time playing wow vanilla (i'm basically noob here hehe)
Bahahahahaa. In response to our prot pally tanking thread =) Nice troll.

   Cletus
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You will get the most enjoyment out of enhancement in PvP. I plan on leveling a Resto Shaman alt to raid with and soak up unwanted mail gear and weapons for an Enhancement PvP set.
Raid classes are pretty much set for good reason. Yes, you could run as enhancement in a raid but you will have to spend forever gearing and getting specific items to make you about as strong as a mid-level warrior. Resto shamans are fantastic healers and any guild that is not braindead is not going to waste a Shaman raid slot on an enhancement shaman. It's just the way things are in Classic. PvP is where almost anything goes if you are skilled enough to make it work.

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morbidmike wrote:
2 months ago
Levelling yes. Raiding, only if you want to raid in a bad casual guild. The stigma is there for a reason, Enhancement sucks for raiding. If you want to raid as a Shaman you will heal. Unless you get "lucky" and get accepted to a bad casual guild that doesn't mind to carry you, or you can get in a pug that needs more Shaman for totems and they can't find any resto Shaman.
fixed.


Also, if the guild is so bad, how can they carry him? :wink:

   Genecide
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couchatron wrote:
2 months ago


Also, if the guild is so bad, how can they carry him? :wink:
Even bad guilds have good players. In every group of 40 you will have players who are far better on the top half of the roster than they are on the bottom.

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couchatron wrote:
2 months ago
fixed.


Also, if the guild is so bad, how can they carry him? :wink:
The raids in Classic are very easy, except perhaps Naxx. This is why meme specs can get carried by bad guilds. Every guild can clear MC for example, it's just very easy. But good guilds will clear it in an hour (or less). Bad guilds will take an entire raid night. That's how you can get carried by a bad guild.

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morbidmike wrote:
2 months ago
couchatron wrote:
2 months ago
fixed.


Also, if the guild is so bad, how can they carry him? :wink:
The raids in Classic are very easy, except perhaps Naxx. This is why meme specs can get carried by bad guilds. Every guild can clear MC for example, it's just very easy. But good guilds will clear it in an hour (or less). Bad guilds will take an entire raid night. That's how you can get carried by a bad guild.

Right. I was in one of those 2.5 hour MC/BWL clear guilds. Im fully aware that in 40 man raids you can carry a few people. I’m just not a fan of throwing the word “bad” around. Just because you’re not top tier doesn’t mean you’re bad. It’s not so black and white.

   Kall
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2hr MC, 2.5hr BWL is pretty decent clear times for progress/farm period.
Scepter Quest required a 5hr BWL clear and that was obviously targeted at the typical realm first guild or in the competition for it.

The raids that clear it a lot faster are doing one of two things:

  • Going in with gear that far exceeds the quality of gear you can get in the place.
  • Filing all the pre-raid work needed (for consumes, buffs etc) to do an hour clear as non-raid time, which is a nice accounting trick but still bullshit.
Outside of the private server speedrunning circles (who do both of the above) a lot of normal guilds will be perfectly happy with 2 to 3 hr clears (single visit).
Things obviously change when the majority of the raid is sporting t2.5/3 and going back to MC for bindings or whatnot.

Sorry for the off-topic.

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So, I have a question here. Since Tranquil Air and Windfury totems can be twisted is that not enough of a dps increase to allow for an enh shaman? For a warrior group that can't drop threat one would think that having windfury that provides extra rage and dps and a threat reduction would be better than only having one. As far as I know ele/resto shaman wouldn't be able to handle the mana expenditure.

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Darg727 wrote:
2 months ago
So, I have a question here. Since Tranquil Air and Windfury totems can be twisted is that not enough of a dps increase to allow for an enh shaman?
If you ask 5 different raid guilds, youre going to get 5 different answers. All vanilla content can be completed with 39 players, therefore EVERYTHING is by definition, viable. All suboptimal specs that can wield nightfall will use it as a justification to bring them, yet you only need 1 per raid. If you are asking if you can justify bringing an enhance shaman to a raid, the answer is definitively yes. Yes you can bring an enhancement to raids. Its up to you to find a guild that is willing to take you and to be willing to put in the effort to justify that position and still provide value AND to be "THE" guy that gets selected to wield the nightfall.

We could get caperfin to jump in here and tell you that you will be able to tank raids as a shaman, or we could get swans to jump here and tell youre a piece of shit for even implying that you are playing something suboptimal, but when dealing with the greater community, the truth will lie somewhere in between and most progression guilds will lean towards shying away from suboptimal builds.

The easiest answer is that you will be resto. The harder answer is that anything can be viable and you can technically play elemental in raids so even enhancement is a possibility (despite their terrible performance). The reality is that you will struggle to find a raid spot outside of resto in most circumstances. Raiding as enhance in Classic wont be incredibly rare, but it will depend on the player and their ability to network and build influence in a guild. This wont be your typical, fill out an app and jump in the raid, situation in most guilds.

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Stfuppercut wrote:
2 months ago
This wont be your typical, fill out an app and jump in the raid, situation in most guilds.
I think this is basically the jist of it, you can absolutely do it, but you'll have to work extra hard to justify it, both in prep (consumables), gear, attendance and charisma towards your GM. Back then we had one Enhancement and one Shadow Priest, because they were dedicated and the guild was friendly in general, and also progress was happening despite of this.

I would probably suggest working your way in as Resto into a guild that is not looking to be absolute optimal all the time, and as you build up some gear and actual real life 'reputation' with GM you can start enquiring that you would like to explore Enh. in a raid setting. You'll also know your guildies better by then (in friendly terms) that they won't mind pulling your weight a bit and actually enjoy you being 'that guy'. So I'd say it's a mixture of many factors between the right guild, the right gm and your dedication and social skills.

We had this Warrior that wanted to be DPS and was obsessed with +crit items to become a full time DPS warrior instead of tank. He was lovely and nice to everyone all the time, also funny, so eventually he got his wish (he had to have the gear for it though, which he was fully dedicated to).

That's how I would approach it I think.

   Genecide
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*Caperfin cracks his knuckles in preparation to answers questions.

- The highest dps spec achievable by a shaman is 20/30/0 (not assuming ele crit parsing)

- In top 1% guilds they will want highly optimal efficiency class specs for world first/server firsts. In the 99% of other guilds the occasional enh should not be an issue, there's enough guides/info out there for my 99yr old grandma to clear raids.

- Having a few odd specs will NOT add hours to your raid clearing.

- People say sub-optimal dps thinking massive amount of dps difference. This is only the case if the person is refusing to make the spec work, in this case like any other spec you would kick them.

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morbidmike wrote:
2 months ago
Levelling yes. Raiding, only if you want to raid in a bad guild. The stigma is there for a reason, Enhancement sucks for raiding. If you want to raid as a Shaman you will heal. Unless you get "lucky" and get accepted to a bad guild that doesn't mind to carry you, or you can get in a pug that needs more Shaman for totems and they can't find any resto Shaman.
This is a pretty terrible mindset to have for Classic raiding.
Enhancement shamans may not be able to output the same amount of dps as a warrior, rogue, mage, etc, but they are able to help those other classes increase their dps with Windfury, Mana totem, or as the Nightfall wielder. Some specs (such as 2h fury slam spec), even require a Windfury totem in their group.
Classic raiding only requires like 15 competent people in a group of 40 to be able to kill almost anything pre-AQ. So, bringing an Enhancement shaman isn't going to be the deciding factor between a kill or not.

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@Kolvacs "Classic raiding only requires like 15 competent people in a group of 40 to be able to kill almost anything pre-AQ. So, bringing an Enhancement shaman isn't going to be the deciding factor between a kill or not."

spot on friend, spot on.

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Then the other 25 people complain that the LC was corrupt in giving those 15 people the lion's share of the gear.

Can't win here.

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Linguine wrote:
2 months ago
Then the other 25 people complain that the LC was corrupt in giving those 15 people the lion's share of the gear.

Can't win here.
I mean, you don't have to raid in a guild with LC!

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Kolvacs wrote:
2 months ago
This is a pretty terrible mindset to have for Classic raiding.
Enhancement shamans may not be able to output the same amount of dps as a warrior, rogue, mage, etc, but they are able to help those other classes increase their dps with Windfury, Mana totem, or as the Nightfall wielder. Some specs (such as 2h fury slam spec), even require a Windfury totem in their group.
Classic raiding only requires like 15 competent people in a group of 40 to be able to kill almost anything pre-AQ. So, bringing an Enhancement shaman isn't going to be the deciding factor between a kill or not.
It's not about being able to clear a raid. It's about the time required to clear a raid. Bringing meme specs will definitely make the difference between clearing a raid in a night or in an hour. It's not even because meme specs do worse DPS. It's because the people who are best at playing the game like to min-max, and why would you min-max your character, spend tons of gold on consumables, enchants and being the correct spec, when there's this one guy who needs to play a spec that's just plain bad. Having meme specs in the guild makes the good people quit. Like I said. You can raid as enhancement but expect to raid in a bad guild, surrounded by bad people who tolerate meme specs because they themselves can't be bothered to push their DPS to the limit.

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morbidmike wrote:
2 months ago
Kolvacs wrote:
2 months ago
This is a pretty terrible mindset to have for Classic raiding.
Enhancement shamans may not be able to output the same amount of dps as a warrior, rogue, mage, etc, but they are able to help those other classes increase their dps with Windfury, Mana totem, or as the Nightfall wielder. Some specs (such as 2h fury slam spec), even require a Windfury totem in their group.
Classic raiding only requires like 15 competent people in a group of 40 to be able to kill almost anything pre-AQ. So, bringing an Enhancement shaman isn't going to be the deciding factor between a kill or not.
It's not about being able to clear a raid. It's about the time required to clear a raid. Bringing meme specs will definitely make the difference between clearing a raid in a night or in an hour. It's not even because meme specs do worse DPS. It's because the people who are best at playing the game like to min-max, and why would you min-max your character, spend tons of gold on consumables, enchants and being the correct spec, when there's this one guy who needs to play a spec that's just plain bad. Having meme specs in the guild makes the good people quit. Like I said. You can raid as enhancement but expect to raid in a bad guild, surrounded by bad people who tolerate meme specs because they themselves can't be bothered to push their DPS to the limit.
I completely disagree with pretty much everything you just said.
Having meme specs in the guild makes the good people quit.
So you really just mean that you'd quit a guild that had people playing sub-optimal specs? Then just say that instead of some blanket "people will quit" statement.
You can raid as enhancement but expect to raid in a bad guild, surrounded by bad people who tolerate meme specs because they themselves can't be bothered to push their DPS to the limit.
You make that statement is if that's actually some kind of truth. Being willing to play with sub-optimal specs doesn't make you less likely to try your best, it just means you understand that 40 people are coming to raid, and not all of them will be playing mage, warrior, or rogue.

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This is a tough aspect of classic for me, and you all probably know that I'm more "classic+" than #nochanges so take this how you will.
I love that each class really has a niche in classic, I think it really makes you not only have pride in your class but really identify with them. The downside is that some specs that feel like they should be able to compete in certain scenarios just can't.
I'm just going to have to deal with the fact that enhance can't raid, and go melt people in pvp with my windfury crit procs.

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Kolvacs wrote:
2 months ago
I completely disagree with pretty much everything you just said.

So you really just mean that you'd quit a guild that had people playing sub-optimal specs? Then just say that instead of some blanket "people will quit" statement.

You make that statement is if that's actually some kind of truth. Being willing to play with sub-optimal specs doesn't make you less likely to try your best, it just means you understand that 40 people are coming to raid, and not all of them will be playing mage, warrior, or rogue.
You can disagree with the truth all you want to. It's the truth, plain and simple. If you don't understand that then you've never played in a guild with exceptional players.

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morbidmike wrote:
2 months ago
Kolvacs wrote:
2 months ago
I completely disagree with pretty much everything you just said.

So you really just mean that you'd quit a guild that had people playing sub-optimal specs? Then just say that instead of some blanket "people will quit" statement.

You make that statement is if that's actually some kind of truth. Being willing to play with sub-optimal specs doesn't make you less likely to try your best, it just means you understand that 40 people are coming to raid, and not all of them will be playing mage, warrior, or rogue.
You can disagree with the truth all you want to. It's the truth, plain and simple. If you don't understand that then you've never played in a guild with exceptional players.
Good luck with that mindset...
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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I don't want to be in a guild where the Moonkin gets the same shot at getting Nef's Tear as the top DPS mage, and neither does the top DPS mage. Simple.

If it's an LC and the Moonkin isn't getting it, the top DPS will likely be there, but then again the Moonkin might not (probably won't) be there.

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Linguine wrote:
2 months ago
I don't want to be in a guild where the Moonkin gets the same shot at getting Nef's Tear as the top DPS mage, and neither does the top DPS mage. Simple.

If it's an LC and the Moonkin isn't getting it, the top DPS will likely be there, but then again the Moonkin might not (probably won't) be there.
If you are playing a sub-optimal spec you have to accept that you're most likely going to be low on the prio for most gear.

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