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Erik wrote:
1 week ago
"Battlezone" is also counter incentive for me. I don't want to have to go to a certain place for PvP. That's what WPvP
is all about. Being out questing, farming or whatever you are doing and suddenly you spot the opposing faction and you
go in for a kill. From there shit usually escalates and it turns into a minor scale war.
Exactly! Which is based on good game design. That item or mob that you are farming is desirable (both for PvE AND for PvP players). That item is an instigator that causes conflict. Whether its an essence off of an elemental, some mining/herb nodes, a rare mob or simply some cloth, you will be incentivized to fight for control over that resource. The ensuing fight that you experience is REAL. It is not some arbitrary fight for an item that's sole purpose is to incentivize the fight itself... No. This guy is taking something valuable and you end up having a REAL altercation for that resource. Silithus sand is the sterile version of this system that already exists... You dont need to collect sand and have potential for pretend fights when the world already offers copious opportunities for real fights over real resources that really matter. This system will also attract BOTH types of players... The PvE player and the PvP player who just wants to get their resource and get back to town, now both are forced into confrontation. This also creates a social dynamic where players need to make decisions. Do I kill the guy? Do I settle for 1/2 of the resource and allow him to take the other half? Real decisions based on real resources that are actually valuable. The PvP that ensues will impact the competition for these items which then serves to impact the value of these items and in doing so all of these little "minor scale wars" will have a greater impact on the economy as a whole. Everything is connected. Collecting piles of sand is not. Collecting piles of sand is not necessary because there are already systems in place that incentivize world PvP and would be more effective. Unless they make sand collection MORE effective than farming premades, in which case they have bigger issues and would be taking the game down an entirely different path.

Blizz did a great job in creating world conflict. Take rare resources, spread them throughout the world to spread out the playerbase and then fix players on the ground and force them through bottleneck areas to incentivize conflict for players who were competing for that resource or mob.
Erik wrote:
1 week ago
No timers, no resources, no specific rendezvous, just RAW SLAUGHTER.
Raw. Unfiltered and real.

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Stfuppercut wrote:
1 week ago
In many ways, you have made the rest of us closer.
Alliance and Horde comes together to save classic from bad PvP features:)

   Stfuppercut Erik
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Tec wrote:
1 week ago
Stfuppercut wrote:
1 week ago
In many ways, you have made the rest of us closer.
Alliance and Horde comes together to save classic from bad PvP features:)
Sometimes there is a threat so great that we must forget our own differences for a short time. A threat that could potentially change the world as we know it...

@RedridgeGnoll IS the catacylsm.

   Tec Erik
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Stfuppercut wrote:
1 week ago
Tec wrote:
1 week ago
Stfuppercut wrote:
1 week ago
In many ways, you have made the rest of us closer.
Alliance and Horde comes together to save classic from bad PvP features:)
Sometimes there is a threat so great that we must forget our own differences for a short time. A threat that could potentially change the world as we know it...

@RedridgeGnoll IS the catacylsm.
:lol: straight up

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Erik wrote:
1 week ago
Not quite sure it has been mentioned since there has been some long a** posts in this topic.

"Battlezone" is also counter incentive for me. I don't want to have to go to a certain place for PvP. That's what WPvP
is all about. Being out questing, farming or whatever you are doing and suddenly you spot the opposing faction and you
go in for a kill. From there shit usually escalates and it turns into a minor scale war.

Or just being attacked by opposing faction, retaliate and suddenly you look at the clock and it has been 2 hours and all you wanted
to do was farm some herbs. Getting lost in PvP is the best feeling ever, it should happen "naturally".

No timers, no resources, no specific rendezvous, just RAW SLAUGHTER.

I wouldn't want to have a specific time or place to make sweet love to my partner,
would feel like "I had to". It should come naturally, in the heat of the moment.

"Make Love, Not Warcraft" - In natural World PvP you can do both!

That gets boring for most players after not long. Players care about rewards, and in this case honor.

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Stfuppercut wrote:
1 week ago
@RedridgeGnoll how do you learn from your mistakes in other aspects of your life? I'm so curious how you learned the difference between hot and cold...

As a child touching hot water...
Ow... hot. I'll try again.
Ow... still hot. I'll try again. 0
Ow... hot
Ow, this water is still hot. Maybe if I stick my hand in again...
Ow, hot.
Ow, still hot...


Your mother must have had the patience of a saint. Its as if you don't learn... Either you are incapable of learning or you are intentionally being intellectually dishonest to protect your own ideas. Originally I thought you were trolling because your ideas were so poorly thought out, but given your post history and the clear effort and quantity of thought (completely separate of quality of thought) you have put into each of your posts I think we have ruled that out at this point. Either way, I pity you.

This idea has failed repeatedly. As outlined by everyone here. This idea is not new. This is a failed idea. Implementing a failed idea is not wise. Learn from your mistakes... Learn from the mistakes others have made.

Though, you do make for some good content when we are in a post drought! The quality is questionable, but it gets us all to post and while most of us cant agree on much, we all seem to find common ground in dismissing your outlandish ideas. In many ways, you have made the rest of us closer.
In what MMORPG has my suggestion been tried? What do you mean it has failed, if it has never been attempted before? I am looking to understand why it might or might not work.

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RedridgeGnoll wrote:
1 week ago
In what MMORPG has my suggestion been tried? What do you mean it has failed, if it has never been attempted before? I am looking to understand why it might or might not work.
It's been tried in WoW already, in EPL and Silithius. Your idea is not unique enough to be sufficiently different from these ideas, which were failures.

It's been tried in Anarchy Online already, in the Notum Wars expansion. The tower-control producing resources was a huge pain and most of the time people just sniped each others towers.

It's been tried in EvE Online already, in the first iteration of sovereignty, in which moon farming produced important resources. and PoSs were the only way to do blueprint R&D. People just gamed the timers and fleet loadouts and tower-bashing became an AFK-fest that was performed AFTER the organic pvp had decided the winner.

And that's just from my personal experience - I bet we could find a dozen more examples of this stupid idea all over. The content is better when it's player driven "just because" without a made-up incentive to coerce players to participate.

It's been tried over, and over, and over again, and you're a troll who just wants to get a rise out of people with your deliberately inane posts. Fortunately, I enjoy the replies and am having a great time.

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RedridgeGnoll wrote:
1 week ago
That gets boring for most players after not long. Players care about rewards, and in this case honor.
It lasted for 2 years in Vanilla for majority of players, and some way into TBC even though flying partially destroyed World PvP.

Your ideas are over man, so gonna quote the legend Private Hudson (RIP Bill Paxton)
"Game over man.... GAME OVER!"

   Frosted Stfuppercut
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Erik wrote:
1 week ago
RedridgeGnoll wrote:
1 week ago
That gets boring for most players after not long. Players care about rewards, and in this case honor.
It lasted for 2 years in Vanilla for majority of players, and some way into TBC even though flying partially destroyed World PvP.

Your ideas are over man, so gonna quote the legend Private Hudson (RIP Bill Paxton)
"Game over man.... GAME OVER!"
World PvP began to die out with cross realm battlegrounds especially. Blizzard made tons of changes that you will notice after Phase 2 hits. Not only did they add Battlegrounds, but eventually allowed players to queue in Capital Cities. Then at the end of Classic you could queue cross realm. This is exactly what we will be getting.

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Frosted wrote:
1 week ago
RedridgeGnoll wrote:
1 week ago
In what MMORPG has my suggestion been tried? What do you mean it has failed, if it has never been attempted before? I am looking to understand why it might or might not work.
It's been tried in WoW already, in EPL and Silithius. Your idea is not unique enough to be sufficiently different from these ideas, which were failures.

It's been tried in Anarchy Online already, in the Notum Wars expansion. The tower-control producing resources was a huge pain and most of the time people just sniped each others towers.

It's been tried in EvE Online already, in the first iteration of sovereignty, in which moon farming produced important resources. and PoSs were the only way to do blueprint R&D. People just gamed the timers and fleet loadouts and tower-bashing became an AFK-fest that was performed AFTER the organic pvp had decided the winner.

And that's just from my personal experience - I bet we could find a dozen more examples of this stupid idea all over. The content is better when it's player driven "just because" without a made-up incentive to coerce players to participate.

It's been tried over, and over, and over again, and you're a troll who just wants to get a rise out of people with your deliberately inane posts. Fortunately, I enjoy the replies and am having a great time.
Battlezones have nothing to do with towers. What?Battlezones are inspired by The Silithyst Must Flow in Silithus, but they work completely differently. I have explained why the system failed in Classic, and proposed ways to fix it. I am looking to understand why Battlezones would fail. I appreciate some of the discussion, but nobody is willing to examine why they would not work.

You have a contested territory that becomes a Battlezone. Each realm needs to reach 1,000 resources. There are tons of resource nodes thst spawn across the map. Every 10 resources you gather, you are awarded with an honor bonus. Getting 10 resoures is an auto turn-in. The honor bonus can vary based on factors such as player population as well. A faction with less players in the zone will earn more honor for a turn-in. Killing an enemy player will allow you to loot their resources.

The honor farming in Battlezones would not replace Premade BG farming, but it would give other players more options to rank up in World PvP. You wouldn't be able to just farm Battlezones 24/7 for rank 1. Battlezones are basically an open world bg. Why keep saying it has failed time and again? Was this in WoW? No.

Instead of saying well other World PvP objectives were failures, so therefore Battlezones are also, why not discuss specifics of why they won't work. Some good criticism has been raised so far.

The whole idea is that you run into the zone and start collecting resources. You then weigh the risk/reward of ganking other players and looting them. Would the system be better if it displayed how many resources another player was carrying? If you saw an enemy Orc Shaman gathering nearby with an 8 lumber above his head, would that be a good thing? Or is it better to keep the resource counts hidden?

What if there is a large faction imbalance in the Battlezone. The Horde outnumber the Alliance 3 to 1. Would offering triple honor to the Alliance for turn-ins be the solution? Or do you keep honor turn-ins equal. A lot of players enjoy small scale PvP with stakes, even ones with a loot mechanic. That is who Battlezones are designed for. What other issues could undermine Battlezones? Forget about what other games or world PvP objectives did. We are discussing Battlezones here.

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No.

En Espanol...

No.

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RedridgeGnoll wrote:
1 week ago
Instead of saying well other World PvP objectives were failures, so therefore Battlezones are also, why not discuss specifics of why they won't work. Some good criticism has been raised so far.
Enough has been written already about why your idea is bad. I urge you to go back and read the pages of comments from multiple individuals. You have presented no new arguments.

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Would it be better to show the resource counts of each gatherer? I think it would create more PvP if they were shown.

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@RedridgeGnoll It almost seems like you're trolling at this point...

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I wish they'd give us more reasons to do world pvp, I would love to raid stormwind and get a drop off Bolvar or something.

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snickerwicket wrote:
1 week ago
I wish they'd give us more reasons to do world pvp, I would love to raid stormwind and get a drop off Bolvar or something.
Don't dishonorable kills sort of prevent that.

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5 pages and they are still feeding the troll, marvelous

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RedridgeGnoll wrote:
1 week ago
snickerwicket wrote:
1 week ago
I wish they'd give us more reasons to do world pvp, I would love to raid stormwind and get a drop off Bolvar or something.
Don't dishonorable kills sort of prevent that.
I don't care about that stuff, I just want reasons to screw around with the other faction

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snickerwicket wrote:
1 week ago
I wish they'd give us more reasons to do world pvp, I would love to raid stormwind and get a drop off Bolvar or something.
Sure sounds better than collecting geysers for a year.

   Stfuppercut
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Tec wrote:
1 week ago
Sure sounds better than collecting geysers for a year.
BAHAHAHAHA! Right??? Its not even that @RedridgeGnoll's concerns are pointless. I could see making an argument for increasing the reward from world PvP. This would be a reasonable stance. But his "solutions" to his issues with the game are uncreative and insane (not intended to be derogatory; his ideas are literally insane). He basically takes a failed implementation, and rallies support to implement it back into the game without changing anything with the system that failed.

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I have suggested specific changes to The Silithyst Must Flow, which was the Silithus World PvP Objective.

The original system worked as follows.

  • Carry and turn-in 1 Geyser at a faction basecamp for 200 honor. (This made it pointless to PvP, since you could easily just collect 1 geyser yourself and ignore PvP.)
  • Players can only carry 1 Geyser at a time. (This meant players only dropped one Geyser if killed, which made killing them pointless to begin with.)
  • Players have their movement speed reduced while carrying a Geyser. (Annoying mechanic that was a poor solution and made the experience clunky.)
  • When one faction completed enough turn-ins, they received faction-wide buffs. (This seemed fine to be honest.)

Proposed changes that fix the original issues.
  • 10 Geysers are required for turn-ins. (This way players need to roam and collect not just 1 Geyser. More roaming and smallscale fights.They need to collect 10 geyers to receive the honor reward.)
  • 10 Geysers are automatically turned in. (No basecamps, instead players receive the honor reward anywhere in the zone to discourage turn-in route camping.)
  • Players can see the number of Geysers another player is carrying when within a certain range. (If a player has 8 Geysers and a nearby players has 2 Geysers, then a potential PvP fight could happen. Players with few or no Geysers would be incentivized to attack another player that is carrying several many.)
  • Variable honor reward based on faction population (Underpopulated factions in a battlezone receive more honor for a 10 Geyser turn-in. Overpopulated factions receive less.)
  • Players would not be slowed or impaired while carrying Geysers.



This new system has not existed in WoW or any MMORPG that I am aware of. It is not fair to compare it to the original World PvP objectives in Classic.

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RedridgeGnoll wrote:
6 days ago
I have suggested specific changes to The Silithyst Must Flow
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   Stfuppercut Erik
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RedridgeGnoll wrote:
6 days ago
This new system has not existed in WoW or any MMORPG that I am aware of. It is not fair to compare it to the original World PvP objectives in Classic.
It's still super fucking boring though. If people still move around slowly, who wants to be on foot trying to mine TEN geysers, or have a series of PvP encounters while slow, seeking out new targets.

Also, do you get NO honor until you collect 10, or can you do a partial turn in? If there's no partial turn in, then you can't really do this activity while waiting on BGs to pop, while waiting for your friends to logon, etc

Ugh, you are terrible and this idea is really the worst. Lipstick on a pig, etc.

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Frosted wrote:
6 days ago
RedridgeGnoll wrote:
6 days ago
This new system has not existed in WoW or any MMORPG that I am aware of. It is not fair to compare it to the original World PvP objectives in Classic.
It's still super fucking boring though. If people still move around slowly, who wants to be on foot trying to mine TEN geysers, or have a series of PvP encounters while slow, seeking out new targets.

Also, do you get NO honor until you collect 10, or can you do a partial turn in? If there's no partial turn in, then you can't really do this activity while waiting on BGs to pop, while waiting for your friends to logon, etc

Ugh, you are terrible and this idea is really the worst. Lipstick on a pig, etc.
There would be no slows or movement impairing effects while carrying Geysers. Collecting 10 Geysers wouldn't take that long. It would depend on how crowded the battlezone is, and how aggressive the enemy faction is. Players could 10 collect geysers while waiting for a BG queue to pop. You wouldn't want a player roaming for an hour just trying to collect 10 Geysers. It would be more reasonable than that, and the respawn rates would reflect that also. Besides you could always just enter a Battlezone, track down a player with 8-9 Geysers and just gank them.

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