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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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Here's the video if anyone is interested:

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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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It's nice to know that Pallies can tank MC/Ony!

I'm not gonna subject myself to reading all these pages of endless discussions/insanity (seriously why is Duki not happy? Pallies can tank raids. That was the whole point of this thread wasn't it?), and can't watch your vids @Holyfrog since I'm at work atm, but did you have to do additional things for just plain tank and spank bosses? Or just swinging and spamming abilities to gain threat? Was mana ever an issue and if so, how did you solve it?

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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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Gallow wrote:
2 weeks ago
It's nice to know that Pallies can tank MC/Ony!
Yea, I dont think that was ever a question. And Frog represents the spec well. Frog had realistic expectations for the class. He massively geared out while healing so hes in raid gear during this raid. He has full consumes and world buffs. And he is still essentially an offtank. He isnt on the kill target in most cases because he doesnt have the same snap threat or taunt. Every fight they went up against, he played into the strengths of his spec and avoided the weaknesses. Just as a lot of us were saying and just as frog said himself. The spec has limitations and those drawbacks must be acknowledged if youre going to be successful. Frog took a suboptimal spec and made it work really well, because he had realistic expectations, a lot of knowledge and prepared for the content.

Meanwhile... Duki is still posting about tanking when hes pumping out content in scarlet monastery. At this rate he will hit 60 around the time BWL comes out.

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I'll have you know we have many resident developers who were involved in the creation of Vanilla WoW that have fantastically fool proof solutions to allll the imaginary problems!!!
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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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Gallow wrote:
2 weeks ago
It's nice to know that Pallies can tank MC/Ony!

I'm not gonna subject myself to reading all these pages of endless discussions/insanity (seriously why is Duki not happy? Pallies can tank raids. That was the whole point of this thread wasn't it?), and can't watch your vids @Holyfrog since I'm at work atm, but did you have to do additional things for just plain tank and spank bosses? Or just swinging and spamming abilities to gain threat? Was mana ever an issue and if so, how did you solve it?
Its fairly simple. I was tanking the bosses that has adds that need to die first, Lucifron, Gehennas, Sulfuron. Its pretty straight forward, just tank it and keep Judgement of Wisdom up. By the time adds are dead I had a solid threat lead. In the current content the mobs just die so fast that Major Mana Potion and Dark Rune is enough to sustain the threat, but I suspect this will be come a problem later on as DPS gear up and encounters last longer. Fortunately my guild has a Retpaladin that I can switch into my group for Sanctity Aura later on if I need more threat (10% increase to Holy Damage)

The boss that was the most interesting was Shazzrah, since this is a nuke fight. I was able to hold aggro just fine with Greater Kings though, and the boss even snapped right back to me after teleport. Greater Kings has really been a gamechanger for Paladins. Tanking a fight like this would have been really difficult before its discovery.

I also use a lot of Judgement of Wisdom/Seal of Wisdom in combo, as the mana gained sustains my mana for threat, and the returned mana does produce some decent amount of threat. The thing with using Seal of Wisdom though, is that I have a 1.5 speed Flurry Axe which is the best weapon forever to restore mana with using this Seal, but the threat from this is entirely flat, and will never scale with gear meaning I do the same threat from mana restoration right now as I will do two years from now in Naxx, which is why I have a hard time with Duki saying threat is so great from Seal of Wisdom. The threat will simply just keep dropping off the further we progress into the game, where Warriors/Druids will have more and more available gear to increase both their threat and their available resources (Rage) through doing more damage.

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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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You put words on my mouth, i never said seal of wisdom as best single target threat, but you obviosly have no clue how to play it aswell of being a noob .

First of all, unless AOE fight you DONT use seal of wisdom, only judgement of wisdom and seal of righteousness spamming jor on cd, holy shield on cd and casual max rank consecrations depend on situation.

But problem with this guy is that he false talk stuffs which are far of being proper prot paladin threat maker.

If you want to do threats, use spell dmg enchant on weapon, spell dmg consumes except flask and runes/pots. Thats more than enough to do strong threats and lesser mana , so you dont end up being a junk on threats.

Next , when AOE fight you do ONLY seal/judge of wisdom , retri aura , rf , sanc and max rank conse.. nothing else.

There is difference between single target and aoe, those differences do work separated and spell dmg/gear is factor how you do increase threats .

Relying on sow when you fight/tank against single target is wrong.

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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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killerduki wrote:
2 weeks ago
You put words on my mouth, i never said seal of wisdom as best single target threat, but you obviosly have no clue how to play it aswell of being a noob .
A noob? A person who is inexperienced in a particular sphere or activity, especially computing or the use of the Internet.

Keep tanking scarlet monastery Duki, we'll see you at 60 in phase 3 tough guy. You are inexperienced in Classic.

And to be clear... Duki is only at around level 40-44, which is the halfway mark... And we are entering phase 2 in just a little bit. Its entirely possible that at his current leveling speed he will be hitting 60 in phase 3, halfway through Classic. Oh my Duki... Oh my.

Selexin wrote:
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I'll have you know we have many resident developers who were involved in the creation of Vanilla WoW that have fantastically fool proof solutions to allll the imaginary problems!!!
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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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Image
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I am a very happy paladin.

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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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Congratulations :)

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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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I'm planning to work through this thread as my guild is considering building up some token memespecs for fun. Some thoughts if anyone wants to comment, just from looking at talent trees:

1. It seems that holy shield + redoubt talent = 30 + 30 = 60% block chance. That means plausibly you could fill in the other 30% with normal avoidance and block. In other words, after getting a crit, it would trigger the redoubt talent making it impossible to get crit twice. Combine with reckoning talent and you could make a build which purposely avoids any +defense, soaking up the occasional crit by design, stacking only armour, spell power and avoidance/block

2. Could skip consecration in order to get the full 5% parry from ret tree, helping reach that sweet ~30%. Benediction from early ret combined with improved seal seal of righteousness from holy is going to maximize single target threat, which is what most raid tanking is all about

3. The disadvantage of taking both redoubt and reckoning means skipping improved devotion aura. But I find that healers always take this regardless, so easy to account for

I'll try to spend some more time reading but feel free to let me know if my intuition is correct or not

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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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Would not BoL with a bunch of melee attacking a mob produce higher threat than BoW?

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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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Do you mean Judgement of Wisdom vs Judgement of Light? Both Judgements have their threat attributed to the person getting the hp/mana restoration, meaning if a Paladin judge light, the threat from each heal is added to the threat of each seperate melee striking the target.

And yes, Avoidance builds absolutely have some merit too them. Im personally just concerned with your stamina in such a build as Avoidance pieces sometimes can get very low amounts of Stamina, but there are Paladins playing it around with such builds with some success.

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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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Some Bosses do require Def Gear, some Bosses do require Resistance Gear , some Bosses do require Armor and DPS Gear.

It all depend, but if you want to experiment with Builds it's all up to you.

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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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killerduki wrote:
2 weeks ago
Some Bosses do require Def Gear, some Bosses do require Resistance Gear , some Bosses do require Armor and DPS Gear.

It all depend, but if you want to experiment with Builds it's all up to you.
But raiding requires reaching a high level so you should just focus on that Duki until you talk about raid content.

Selexin wrote:
3 weeks ago
I'll have you know we have many resident developers who were involved in the creation of Vanilla WoW that have fantastically fool proof solutions to allll the imaginary problems!!!
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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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Stfuppercut wrote:
2 weeks ago
killerduki wrote:
2 weeks ago
Some Bosses do require Def Gear, some Bosses do require Resistance Gear , some Bosses do require Armor and DPS Gear.

It all depend, but if you want to experiment with Builds it's all up to you.
But raiding requires reaching a high level so you should just focus on that Duki until you talk about raid content.
I don't have to be lvl 60 in a Game where i cleared all raids 14 years ago and perfectly know how things are in order to say how they work.

It seems you claim this for yourself.

Neither any of your claims about my plans or about how i will play this game are true.

If you read history of my text , you will notice far long before Game was released or Decided about any Phase , i said i will begin Raiding Guild
at December , until then you can only speculate .

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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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@killerduki , just calm down and level. You havent played Classic before. The rest of us are out here raiding, completing content and talking about the state and functionality of the game. Youre still learning. Youre just figuring out Scarlet Monastery and building your toon. Youre about half way through the game. Just focus on leveling up and then you can have an informed opinion about paladins in the raid scene, until then, youre just arguing for the sake of arguing. Youre still new to the game so just slow down and enjoy it... Once you get to max level and complete some actual content you can share your opinion on the state of the game.

I recommend watching some of Holyfrogs video on youtube, a great representative for pallies. Hes really leading the charge for Classic and pushing out some exceptional content to help new guys like yourself get started.

Selexin wrote:
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I'll have you know we have many resident developers who were involved in the creation of Vanilla WoW that have fantastically fool proof solutions to allll the imaginary problems!!!
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Holyfrog wrote:
2 weeks ago
Here's the video if anyone is interested:

Just in case to explain to people how terrible this player is playing Protection Paladin in Raids :

Used 0.25 speed to see things easier , because his fast speed Video makes you avoid watching how he play the game.

1- 01:40-01:44 = you can see how he is waiting for the mob and straight judging JoW - SoR against a mob who is dying within few seconds, instead of just JoR - SoR and keep him until it die.

First mistake = he rely on Consecration which is poor Aggro against single target and Heavy Mana inneficient leaving him out of mana.
Second mistake = Consecration is not snap aggro like Judge of Righteous is.
Third mistake = Mob can easily kill whole group until this guy get the Aggro because he didn't use his tool for snap aggro.
Fourth mistake = no Holy Shield pre cast , so even if mob hit him at beginning , chances for him to loose him are high , because return dmg ability is not ready.

2- 02:08-02:20 = you can see him run with SoW/JoW and loosing the mob instantly because he was unable or let say noob to hold him and tank him (clueless how to take it and not loosing it from group , where Warrior didn't even had to use Taunt lol) .

SoW is terrible threat make against Single Target.

First mistake = when lava surger came, he does consecration instead of JoR to pick him up instantly , so mob ending up banished without aggro on him and he wasted his mana completely for nothing.

Second mistake = no Holy Shield used , even if mob for some reason did hit him , he could had kept him if HS did proc upon block.

Lucifron fight :

On a boss where he is not Tanking the 1st kill , he don't pre cast Holy Shield (he did bit late) , so he did not had time to consecration at very beginning.
While he used JoR there (useless since he is not first target to die) , he didn't began with JoW on Boss to regen and refill the wasted mana from the pull.

On top of that, no JoW on Boss made him hungry for mana , merely by not having anyone decursing him is making him spending so much mana worthless and instead on JoR/Holy Shield relying, he rely on Consecration which is poor aggro for highly mana inefficiency on long term. Ending up as poor threat trying to buff in order to be somehow efficient. (completely joke) .

Wasting shit tons of Consumes for nothing , hence his Tanking rotation is terrible (spamming consecration against single target all the time) .
No Judge of Wisdom for extra threat by group and mana regen and Judge of Crus is lesser threat compare to how much will provide JoW.

Thanks to being extremely big noob, he ended up oom when boss came to 80% hp , on top of him being poor on aggro even tho he wasted all those consumes and Pots/Runes for nothing.

He also ended up being even more Noob when boss went down to 30% , by using Seal of Wisdom to regenerate more mana so he can spam more Blessing of Kings..... I mean, what i see is terrible player beyond mine disappointments of expectations by noob Paladins ..... Therefore called an Protection Paladin expert IMO or even worse, Theorycrafter (damn) .

Magmadar fight : He isnt main tanking , wortless to discuss about it.

Gehennas fight : similar story as Lucifron fight, only difference is that he finally used judge of wisdom after he wasted all of his mana consumes :D (rofl).

Just more of it, is where he didn't used SoR for long time before he reused it, so he is not making efficient threat during that time , leaving himself on poor threat making.

11:50 : Someone asspull the mobs , he is getting paranoya and using Consecration at empty land, instead of picking the mob using snap aggro ability called Judgement of Righteousness , not only that he didn't took the aggro , but also he wasted all his mana for nothing ,ending up using Seal of Wisdom which is imo terrible on aggro because he went oom so quickly , he ended up completely joke there.

Shahraz fight: No Holy Shield pre pull cast for more threat , He is using Fire Resistance Aura instead of Retribution Aura for more threat .

Shahraz teleport , because he is wasting his Judges worthless, his JoR is on CD , so he can't snap aggro him during that period , leaving his Group dying . while he is desparate of buffing Kings which is poorer aggro than JoR.

Because he was so noob spamming so much Consecration at beginning , he ended up with poor mana and used Seal of Wisdom instead after Boss teleporting went back to him lmao , so he ended up being more noob to rely spamming Kings which is extremely limited threat making and poor threat compare to Seal of Righteousness against single target.

Garr fight : No Holy Shield pre pull , after he wasted all of his mana , he then so much later decide to use Seal and Judge of wisdom , while whole time he had his mob without Judgement of Wisdom , despite the fact that hes been loosing Buffs like Righteous Fury for the whole time from Garr dispells , he was noob enough to not knowing about it and wasting his mana on worthless Consecration without Righteous Fury on him :D .

How much does it takes to have at least 0.1% IQ inside brain to think about , that NONE of your spells are worth wasting all that mana you did , if you are not using Righteous Fury.

Majordommo fight : No Righteous Fury at the beginning of the fight, he is using Retribution Aura instead of Fire Resistance Aura , No judgement of Wisdom , he wasted all his mana , boom Warrior had to take aggro from him because Warlock was about to over aggro him at end , same as he was poor on HP due to no Fire Resistance Aura using (perhaps Healer went oom trying to heal thru that) .

Ragnaros fight : Heal Tank because you are noob :)

Now i see why people call Protection Paladins as suboptimal , noobs , less viable , Oomzor , low threat.

We have Brainwashers like Holyfrog who clearly have no fucking clue what they are doing. Therefore they are Preaching and are so called Experts.
Stfuppercut wrote:
2 weeks ago
just calm down and level. You havent played Classic before.
On top of this Troll lying all the time and claiming he know about me more than me myself ROFL .
How much IQ does it take to trust some random website which is bugged and providing false info compare to Real evidence given on a screenshots with timeline and date and Video evidence given with proof that game was bought in 2005.
Holyfrog wrote:
2 weeks ago
. In the current content the mobs just die so fast that Major Mana Potion and Dark Rune is enough to sustain the threat, but I suspect this will be come a problem later on as DPS gear up and encounters last longer.
That's because you were noob having no clue how to build up threat and sustain high threat.

JoW do scale in Classic with Righteous Fury and provide much higher threat (pservers gave 0 threat, classic does give you 0.5 threat per 1 mana and this threat it is increased from Righteous Fury) and thanks to mana regeneration, you do more threat with this Judge rather than using JoTC.
JoTC in Classic is poorer than Pservers due to lower SP coefficient on SoR .

I enjoyed my coffee , good night.

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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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killerduki wrote:
2 weeks ago
That's because you were noob...
For full context duki is around level 40-45 right now and has not participated in a Classic raid. Hes has no raid experience yet is criticizing a prot pally who raid tanks. Duki, youre a noob and youre delusional. :lol:

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3 weeks ago
I'll have you know we have many resident developers who were involved in the creation of Vanilla WoW that have fantastically fool proof solutions to allll the imaginary problems!!!
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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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The problem with redoubt/reckoning build is that you have to spec for it, so it does not sound fun to switch gear sets. But I feel like def gear is not going to be needed if you can mathematically guarantee that you that everything following a crit is blocked. Which boss would have to have defensive gear?

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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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Would a prot pally want 10% intelligence talent or 15 % more damage from righteous?

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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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Divine Intellect and Improved Seal of Righteousness are found on seperate tiers in the talent tree so you can just get both.

Note that Improved Seal of Righteousness only increase your base damage of SoR and Judgement of Righteousness. The threat on these abilities are pretty low to begin with though, so my logic here is that you want everything you can get to boost its damage. The threat is also increased by Righteous Fury and the Seal damage has some synergy with the One Handed Weapon Specialization talent in Prot.

The choice is then between 10% Strength and 10% Intellect. Strength increase your block value, but you need 20 Strength per point of Block Value, and this block value does not scale with your Shield Specialization talent either. In preraid gear f.ex, having the talent may give you around 1 additional Block Value when tanking. Bosses hit for 600-700 damage so its pretty negligible.

Strength also increase your white damage. White damage does not scale with Righteous Fury, so its a marginal threat increase. It still is an increase, so you can argue that by the same logic that I use to pick Improved Seal of Righteousness, you may want to have the talent.

What I go for however is Divine Intellect. I personally favor having some Intellect on my gear. I tank with Tier 2 helm/legs, and before I got those I was using so Tier 1 pieces which has some Intellect on them. Having more mana means you are able to cast more spells before you run out and that indirectly increase your threat. Divine Int vs Strength is really just a preference thing.

The bottom line is that you should be choosing between Int and Strength, not between Improved SoR and Intellect.

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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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To address the absolute nonsense written above by Killerduki.

My guilds tank composition is two Warrior tanks. One Deep Prot, one Fury Prot, one Feral Druid and myself.

The thing is, while I certainly would like tank everything myself I value my guild over my own personal need to tank. The reason I am not holding aggro on the trash is simply because I am not really trying. I am the raidleader of my guild, and having the Warriors take point on tanking trash means I get to focus on callouts for incoming patrols, watch debuffs and coordinate other things like buffs or whatever else during the trash.

My raidleading style is that I will always place the classes that are best suited for the job on the task they should be doing to optimize the raid as a whole. That means having the Warriors on the trash tanking as they can taunt if someone overaggroes. Having that safety net means our DPS can start nuking straight away which overall speeds up the raid.

My job on trash is simply to watch out for any additional mobs that might patrol or get ninjapulled, and get initial aggro on those until one of the Warrior tanks can take it off me. This is simply a better way to utilize the classes we have available rather than trying to live some kind of Protection maintanking fantasy to the detriment of my guild and raid.

As you can see, on the bosses that I do tank, I am perfectly capable of holding aggro doing what I already do. I dont have to hyperoptimize my rotation when I already have a solid threat lead from the adds being killed first and that lets me focus more on raidleading the fight instead.

I am not tanking Magmadar because our deep Prot Warrior is better suited to the job than I am, and again I am raidleading and not having to tank it myself makes me more focused on calling out fearwards and checking if debuffs are maintained. I could absolutely maintank this fight if I wanted to, but there's really no point to doing it.

I want to specifically focus on this part of your post though, regarding the Shazzrah fight:

while he is desparate of buffing Kings which is poorer aggro than JoR.
This is actually the proper way to tank this fight. With 7 Mages, the Greater Kings is doing 798 threat per cast from range, meaning the boss snaps right back to me as you can see in the video. The alternative if you were using a Warrior would be having an offtank stay in the raid, pick the boss up and then drag it back to the tankspot where the Maintank would taunt is off the offtank and continue tanking.

I am not sure why you think Judgement of Righteousness would be better here. Thats simply not the case. First off all, the boss teleports out of melee range, which means I would have to chase the boss down to judge it with Righteousness. Secondly, Judgement does not even do more threat. As you can see on the Lucifron fight earlier in the video it can crit for up to 420 damage. Thats almost 800 threat, just marginally better than Blessing of Kings. Most likely the Judgement will not crit however, and it may even resist from having 17% spell miss chance. Greater Kings is by far the best strategy for this as you can see :)
he ended up being more noob to rely spamming Kings which is extremely limited threat making and poor threat compare to Seal of Righteousness against single target.
As I already wrote about above, with 7 Mages, the Greater Kings produce 798 threat per cast. With a 1.5 sec global cooldown that means casting Kings on cooldown produce 532 threat per second.

Seal of Righteousness however deals 60 damage each with with the improved Seal of the Crusader debuff on the boss. With my 1.5 speed Flurry Axe this means it does 76 threat per second. Not accounting for additional Flurry Axe procs, but lets be extremely generous and say an even 100 threat per second. Your statement is not even remotely true and I have to really question your understanding of the how the game functions.

You are also focusing an awefully lot on me not precasting Holy Shield. I specifically do not precast this because casting Holy Shield actually generate threat as the ability is a Buff. This means casting it after combat starts provide me with a small amount of additional threat that cannot resist or be subject to RNG in any way.

I concede that I did not have Righteous Fury on Majordomo. Actually did not notice until you pointed it out. This is because we did Garr before, and he dispelled the buff. I suppose I was just too focused on the raid itself and forgot to rebuff it. A pretty bad mistake, but as I was just offtanking one of the adds that would not get nuked down until at the end of the fight it made little real difference.

For Ragnaros, I am healing because again, the Warriors and Druid tank is simply better for this fight because they dont have a mana bar and so they cannot be targetted by the Hammer of Ragnaros ability. They also have Intercept/Charge to let them get back into the fight quicker once they are hit by Wrath of Ragnaros.

I recognize that different classes have different strengths and weaknesses, and I will always attempt to utilize the classes we have available in a role that makes the most sense for the raid as a whole. I have no doubt I could tank all the bosses if I really wanted to, I just dont have any intentions of being that selfish.

Hopefully this clears things up.

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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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Still, kudos to Holyfrog for quality posts.

Came for the drama, stayed for the content

   Stfuppercut
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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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Holyfrog wrote:
2 weeks ago
The reason I am not holding aggro on the trash is simply because I am not really trying. I am the raidleader of my guild, and having the Warriors take point on tanking trash means I get to focus on callouts for incoming patrols, watch debuffs and coordinate other things like buffs or whatever else during the trash.
If you are not there to do the job , then there is no point of being in the raid , while someone would do it and not relying on other Tanks to do things that he can do even better than them!
Problem is that you have no clue how better you are on trash compare to other tanks , simply because your DMG is higher than other Tanks is speeding up Trash killing.
Holyfrog wrote:
2 weeks ago
My raidleading style is that I will always place the classes that are best suited for the job on the task they should be doing to optimize the raid as a whole.
Exactly what i pointed out above, as Raid Leader myself too ,i also position things who are best suited for doing the job , especially why i pointed that YOU should do Trash Tanking over Warriors, simply because of higher DPS = speeding up the run. (but seeing what kind of paranoya you are getting when things are getting pulled and messing with seals and spamming consecration for aggro i imo pointless explaining this to you).
Holyfrog wrote:
2 weeks ago
My job on trash is simply to watch out for any additional mobs that might patrol or get ninjapulled, and get initial aggro on those until one of the Warrior tanks can take it off me.
You can always watch out for ninjapulled and patrol mobs even while tanking Mobs , that's not an excuse, that's being noob.

This shows what kind of Expert is getting Carried on the Raids instead of doing his job , if i was Raid leading , then you would been Gkicked instantly for not doing the Tank job and leaving it to others who are worse on specific job than you (trash killing) .
Holyfrog wrote:
2 weeks ago
As you can see, on the bosses that I do tank, I am perfectly capable of holding aggro doing what I already do.
You hold what???? LOL , when things get improved with higher lvl Gear, doing the way you do , you are going to hold my balls only.
Holyfrog wrote:
2 weeks ago
I dont have to hyperoptimize my rotation when I already have a solid threat lead from the adds being killed first and that lets me focus more on raidleading the fight instead.
I am raidleading and able to easy focus on hyperoptimize and raid leading at the same time , that's not excuse.
Also not doing something good , explains why your claims are "Others do the job better than me" , simply because you are noob and missrepresenting the Class , doesn't mean that your claims are right about the class.

- Why would you waste mana of your healers instead of receiving less dmg taken?
- Why would you waste time to 39 people in Raid , when you can optimize the DMG and speedup the whole run ?
Holyfrog wrote:
2 weeks ago
This is actually the proper way to tank this fight. With 7 Mages, the Greater Kings is doing 798 threat per cast from range, meaning the boss snaps right back to me as you can see in the video. The alternative if you were using a Warrior would be having an offtank stay in the raid, pick the boss up and then drag it back to the tankspot where the Maintank would taunt is off the offtank and continue tanking.
So you are basically slacker on top of being noob there and leaving whole group waiting for you to get the aggro relying on Blessings only ?

Instead you could spam Blessings, run at same time, pick the boss with JoR and run back instantly to the spot to speedup the process.
Holyfrog wrote:
2 weeks ago
I am not sure why you think Judgement of Righteousness would be better here. Thats simply not the case. First off all, the boss teleports out of melee range, which means I would have to chase the boss down to judge it with Righteousness. Secondly, Judgement does not even do more threat. As you can see on the Lucifron fight earlier in the video it can crit for up to 420 damage. Thats almost 800 threat, just marginally better than Blessing of Kings. Most likely the Judgement will not crit however, and it may even resist from having 17% spell miss chance. Greater Kings is by far the best strategy for this as you can see :)
Let me explain you why SoR and JoR is better :

MANAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA .... No wonder why you are getting OOM so easily.

On long duration JoR and SoR will provide you more threat than spamming Kings, because spamming Kings will leave you without mana, while focusing on SoR/JoR is going to provide you smooth fight without mana being wasted (as Bonus you can even have Holy Shield and still mana wont be wasted) and at the end you are going to make much more threat than the short duration Kings spamming .

You should optimize things and have always mana for anything unpredicted.... Like 3rd Teleport , like half raid wiped so longer duration etc etc ...
But you obviously rely on getting carried and boosted...
(Explains the noob part where you said) :
Holyfrog wrote:
2 weeks ago
The threat will simply just keep dropping off the further we progress into the game, where Warriors/Druids will have more and more available gear to increase both their threat and their available resources (Rage) through doing more damage.
You are also focusing an awefully lot on me not precasting Holy Shield. I specifically do not precast this because casting Holy Shield actually generate threat as the ability is a Buff. This means casting it after combat starts provide me with a small amount of additional threat that cannot resist or be subject to RNG in any way.
Instead of relying to get snap few threats (perhaps 50 or less than that) , having Holy Shield active and GCD ready will provide you :
1- Big chance for Block when Boss hit you = snap 230 threat.
2- GCD ready to instantly use Consecration for even more threat.
3- Same time Judging .

3 in 1 = Instant making extremely high threat, instead of having group waiting you for 10 - 15 seconds before you do anything....
For Ragnaros, I am healing because again, the Warriors and Druid tank is simply better for this fight because they dont have a mana bar and so they cannot be targetted by the Hammer of Ragnaros ability.
Even if you are targettted by the Hammer of Ragnaros , it is not going to Hurt neither YOU , neither ANYONE and Offtank can always Resist it using Fire Resistance Gear. Simply because the Tank (Can be seen in your Video too) is without anyone close to him except the Offtank who is already using Fire Resistance Gear....

On top of that, Boss is never going to make double Knockbacks (hammer+base knockback) , so either way , this explain why you should never be Raid Leader , when you don't even know how things work to begin with.
I recognize that different classes have different strengths and weaknesses, and I will always attempt to utilize the classes we have available in a role that makes the most sense for the raid as a whole.
First you don't have any clue what are the strengths and weaknesses of your Class , before you claim such things. Especially watching what kind of Noob you are playing your Spec and Class is imo good explanation why you believe in such nonsense.

/Wisdom is Priority
/Activity is Skill
/Skill is Life
/Justice will prevails
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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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Lets watch someone who is not a raid leader, claim that they are a raid leader and criticize someone who raid leads while he does scarlet monastery. This makes sense.

Selexin wrote:
3 weeks ago
I'll have you know we have many resident developers who were involved in the creation of Vanilla WoW that have fantastically fool proof solutions to allll the imaginary problems!!!
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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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Holyfrog wrote:
2 weeks ago
Divine Intellect and Improved Seal of Righteousness are found on seperate tiers in the talent tree so you can just get both.

Note that Improved Seal of Righteousness only increase your base damage of SoR and Judgement of Righteousness. The threat on these abilities are pretty low to begin with though, so my logic here is that you want everything you can get to boost its damage. The threat is also increased by Righteous Fury and the Seal damage has some synergy with the One Handed Weapon Specialization talent in Prot.

The choice is then between 10% Strength and 10% Intellect. Strength increase your block value, but you need 20 Strength per point of Block Value, and this block value does not scale with your Shield Specialization talent either. In preraid gear f.ex, having the talent may give you around 1 additional Block Value when tanking. Bosses hit for 600-700 damage so its pretty negligible.

Strength also increase your white damage. White damage does not scale with Righteous Fury, so its a marginal threat increase. It still is an increase, so you can argue that by the same logic that I use to pick Improved Seal of Righteousness, you may want to have the talent.

What I go for however is Divine Intellect. I personally favor having some Intellect on my gear. I tank with Tier 2 helm/legs, and before I got those I was using so Tier 1 pieces which has some Intellect on them. Having more mana means you are able to cast more spells before you run out and that indirectly increase your threat. Divine Int vs Strength is really just a preference thing.

The bottom line is that you should be choosing between Int and Strength, not between Improved SoR and Intellect.
Ok so try making reckoning redoubt build which also gets the 5% parry from ret!?

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