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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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In this thread, a guy who is level 30 in Classic (killerduki) is arguing with a guy who has already tanked UBRS(holyfrog). The guy that has cleared UBRS outlines the drawbacks to the spec. The level 30 continues to argue...

I assume that Duki will hit 60 sometime within the next 2-4 months. He will join a guild that has cleared MC 16-20 times and they will allow him to tank certain bosses that are on farm. He will record those boss fights and upload them. We will never see an unedited version of Duki tanking through an entire raid as a main tank and we will never see Duki do this during progression. We will only see clips uploaded LONG after content has been killed. Duki will claim its progression and we will watch the people around him sporting numerous raid epics.

   Redstain Selexin
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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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The prot paladin community has been hard at work discovering and testing lots of interesting mechanics that will improve our tanking potential.
Sharing some footage I've captured over the past week demonstrating some of these findings.



https://www.twitch[dot]tv/redneckrebel/clip/RacyBoringMacaroniFUNgineer?filter=clips&range=7d&sort=time

The link to the WoW Forum post gives an in-depth explanation on why Righteous Fury works the way it does, and if the bug has a future.
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t ... tps/318279

I don't really plan on replying to any posts here since the thread tends to quickly derail.
I also plan on updating my prot paladin guide in the near-future to have a table of threat values for various abilities. Personally, I think it's a bit excessive doing that, as GBoK has the highest threat potential compared to all other abilities.

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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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Hi Askalon, welcome to nam.

   Holyfrog Targo teebling Selexin
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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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Stfuppercut wrote:
2 weeks ago
In this thread, a guy who is level 30 in Classic (killerduki) is arguing with a guy who has already tanked UBRS(holyfrog). The guy that has cleared UBRS outlines the drawbacks to the spec. The level 30 continues to argue...

I assume that Duki will hit 60 sometime within the next 2-4 months. He will join a guild that has cleared MC 16-20 times and they will allow him to tank certain bosses that are on farm. He will record those boss fights and upload them. We will never see an unedited version of Duki tanking through an entire raid as a main tank and we will never see Duki do this during progression. We will only see clips uploaded LONG after content has been killed. Duki will claim its progression and we will watch the people around him sporting numerous raid epics.
I will quote this just in case you get short memory later.

And FYI i am myself leading a Guild, i dont have a need to join ANY Guild, when i am capable of leading my own one.

Next is going to be fun , and right now i am impressed how you call me lvl 30 paladin when i didnt got time and havent played this game for past 3 weeks, especially that i already notified about ot earlier even.

And for the Video i see from the guy above,,Greater Blessings seems to be bugged, they were never meant to work with RF.

Such thing should be reported as bug and i will gladly report it tomorrow.

/Wisdom is Priority
/Activity is Skill
/Skill is Life
/Justice will prevails
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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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killerduki wrote:
2 weeks ago
i didnt got time and havent played this game for past 3 weeks, especially that i already notified about ot earlier even.
This is usually referred to as feathering your nest. This essentially means that you will make excuses to justify failure before you have attempted the feat. People will do this because it allows them to completely relinquish responsibility for the outcome of an event. If you do end up tanking MC, woohoo, you achieved it! And if you dont, its because you just couldnt play enough... And when you finally DO tank content, you will be surrounded by people in better gear who can serve to carry you, allowing you to play a sub optimal spec during progression, even though it wont be progression for anyone else.

People who are un-confident or incapable will do mental gymnastics to account for their own short-comings. Perhaps you dont have time to play, and thats okay, but you are in no position to criticize someone who has put in the time and is raiding (holyfrog). You are still learning. You are still level 30. You have not earned the right to criticize his summary of paladin raid tanking, because thus far, you have never attended a raid in Classic WoW. Frog has demonstratively tanked content in Classic AND posted it on his youtube channel. He did it when it was relevant. You will not be touching any phase 1 content while it is relevant.

   Redstain
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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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Gonna tank in MC tonight. This ought to be fun. Last reset I took 2 of the Priests on Sulfuron Harbinger.

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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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Nice, wish you best of luck. Waiting for the rest of my guild to catch up to 60 and i'll be tanking everything all the way through. Im really really excited to tank a few bosses, specifically shazzrah being he was the bane of my existence on Pservers and from what I understand I should be able to tank him easily now.

Until then i'll be off-tanking MC pugs, I won't really bother recording anything but ill take a few screenshots here and there. Once my guild gets to 60 and starts its first hosted MC i'll start recording videos and sharing.

Even when I was in this MC pug being a asshole trying to steal threat from the MT I was shocked by the change of pace and difference coming from private servers. Even on annihilators I was able to contribute to the "Taunt" spam as I was putting out enough threat to tag them before they dropped off to be taunted again.

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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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Stfuppercut wrote:
2 weeks ago
killerduki wrote:
2 weeks ago
i didnt got time and havent played this game for past 3 weeks, especially that i already notified about ot earlier even.
This is usually referred to as feathering your nest. This essentially means that you will make excuses to justify failure before you have attempted the feat. People will do this because it allows them to completely relinquish responsibility for the outcome of an event. If you do end up tanking MC, woohoo, you achieved it! And if you dont, its because you just couldnt play enough... And when you finally DO tank content, you will be surrounded by people in better gear who can serve to carry you, allowing you to play a sub optimal spec during progression, even though it wont be progression for anyone else.

People who are un-confident or incapable will do mental gymnastics to account for their own short-comings. Perhaps you dont have time to play, and thats okay, but you are in no position to criticize someone who has put in the time and is raiding (holyfrog). You are still learning. You are still level 30. You have not earned the right to criticize his summary of paladin raid tanking, because thus far, you have never attended a raid in Classic WoW. Frog has demonstratively tanked content in Classic AND posted it on his youtube channel. He did it when it was relevant. You will not be touching any phase 1 content while it is relevant.
What are you trash talking bullshits?????

First of all YOU have no idea about my situation in IRL!

Second you find all excuses to trash talk when i even notified that i would be busy until october LONG before Classic release even!

What geared and overgeared are you trashtalking about???

You know receiving dmg from Boss does not relate to geared Group, but from your OWN Gear!

Geared DPS are harder to handle regarding THREAT, which again is on my benefit to prove you wrong even more!!

Not having time to play has nothing with skills or criticism and i can always chat using phone.. This is 21st century yo and you still living in dark ages as it seems...

In b4 you talking about me having no rights to criticise as lvl 30 , but what gives you rights to do it, when you have no fucking clue about the spec or you never played it in raids at all. Therefore you talk aboht rights of criticism...

Only because Holyfrog had a time (which i didn't got time until today) to play , only because Holyfrog got better PC performance (which i don't have due to low economy) to post and provide quality streams vs my poor 480/720 low fps streams , only because Holyfrog have fluent English (which i am not) , doesn't mean that he is better at something!

And then you speak like Holyfrog as "Real Voice of Prot Paladins" , when he on his 1st Ragnaros kill is Healer and NOT Tanking!

Stick to the facts before you end up mentally delusional (holyfrog words) like holyfrog.

Today Prot Paladins becomes Meta slowly , not like they used to be like in the Past.. ... This is how i changed the evolution regarding Prot Paladins , and ofc many experts came out (pretending as experts) today, mainly those who shitting on me and are claiming themselfs as best Paladin Tanks in world.... ..

/Wisdom is Priority
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/Justice will prevails
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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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killerduki wrote:
2 weeks ago
Stick to the facts before you end up mentally delusional
Please this

   Stfuppercut
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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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Came to check prot paladin viability in raids, went out mind blown there is a guy who thinks he changed a meta by himself(been playing paladin for years and never heard of him)..when there isn't any meta and will never be where paladin is a viable choice for progression besides being the raid leader or having good connections, bears and warriors are better, I learned it and I'm really stuborn, so others can too.

In the end you do what you want obviously, paladins have a prot spec so it's cool other people use it and look good while doing it, this game is 100% explored to the point you can tank with a cloth wearer, but stating paladin tanking is slowly becoming meta....what a stretch.

   Stfuppercut
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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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I'm still confused after reading 23 pages of this, and feel like it's essentially a bunch of prot paladins saying "We can tank." and warriors saying "No, you can't".

I'm assuming the consensus should really be "Yes, prot paladins can tank. But warrior is ideal". No?

   teebling
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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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I dont think anyone has said Paladins cant tank. They for sure can tank nearly everything in the game, but you are right about them being worse at it than Warriors and Druids. And I say that as a Protection Paladin player myself.

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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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Some have, especially on that weird zone that is reddit. But yeah, I think all 3 are just fine. Some more optimal than others.

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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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Anthony wrote:
2 weeks ago
I'm still confused after reading 23 pages of this, and feel like it's essentially a bunch of prot paladins saying "We can tank." and warriors saying "No, you can't".

I'm assuming the consensus should really be "Yes, prot paladins can tank. But warrior is ideal". No?
Yes and yes.

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Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/caperfin
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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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Holyfrog wrote:
2 weeks ago
And I say that as a Protection Paladin player myself.
Protection Paladin player who does heal for Raid Bosses.... Sure you are...

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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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killerduki wrote:
2 weeks ago
Protection Paladin player who does heal for Raid Bosses.... Sure you are...
I dont see the issue with this. He plays a valuable spec while he gears for his sub optimal spec. When he has the appropriate gear to make prot viable he will swap over. At this time his guild or team will be adequately geared and experienced to accommodate the extra adversity that comes with running a prot paladin.

Hes just seems like a... good teammate. He isnt selfish.

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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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killerduki wrote:
2 weeks ago
Holyfrog wrote:
2 weeks ago
And I say that as a Protection Paladin player myself.
Protection Paladin player who does heal for Raid Bosses.... Sure you are...
Quick check on your Youtube channel.

You played Shadowpriest most of your WoW years, why you title yourself a Protection paladin?

Or are we enslaved to a single specialiazation and cannot present data on different ones because sometimes, we play other things? Really sad argument.

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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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Killerduki seems to like to antagonize for the sake of it. >.>

Are they not allowed to also play other specs?

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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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Redstain wrote:
2 weeks ago

Quick check on your Youtube channel.

You played Shadowpriest most of your WoW years, why you title yourself a Protection paladin?

Or are we enslaved to a single specialiazation and cannot present data on different ones because sometimes, we play other things? Really sad argument.

Anthony wrote:
2 weeks ago
Killerduki seems to like to antagonize for the sake of it. >.>

Are they not allowed to also play other specs?
You are right , they are allowed to also play other specs either.

But seeing they preach and calling/called themselves an "Experts" of some spec , but therefore they never raided or did Main Tank as that spec on a Progression Run (by Progression Run , i mean the Guild who is currently Progressing , unrelated to the Gear group it has) .

Is beyond silly.

What's worse, they are poor with their skills , therefore they claim/preach and point out on the Spec as being poor, ignoring/refusing that it's THEM who lack of knowledge about it and NOT the Spec itself.

See just an example what Holyfrog does =

- Using lots of time Judgement of Wisdom and Seal of Righteousness on 3-5 mobs ,he then goes oom and preaching that paladins have mana issues.
- He is very slow on pulls and therefore he preach that Paladins have aggro issues.
- He pull without Holy Shield pre pull cast on Bosses (then he preach how terrible Paladins are with aggro when Pull happens).
- He uses Holy Shield on 3+ targets all the time ,even when surviving isn't an issue , then boom = oom.
- He again preach how Paladin is so terrible ignoring how terrible is to rely on Holy Shield regarding threat against 3+ targets if surviving isn't an issue ...

The way i work is Sow/JoW on 3+ mobs (jow depend on how long mob survive) , i extremely rare go oom or drink , keeping aggro fine, not spamming abilities when aggro is not an issue to not waste mana worthless and then i am not wasting time of the group at all , ready and go to next group.

Those are 2 different types of worlds.

Regarding Raids , waiting to see him actually begin to Main Tank , then i will let you know how far he lack with his knowledge... As he call himself "Expert" .

How those "Experts" coming today as "Bigger Experts" ?
They learned that Greater Blessings are bugged and do work with RF as increased threat making , bingo , they are best Prot Paladins in the world.

What happens when such bug get fixed?

/Wisdom is Priority
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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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I'll just go back to my normal rotation when kings gets nerfed personally (doubt it will).

Classic is a lot easier than private so regardless MTing will be easy.

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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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Anthony wrote:
2 weeks ago
I'm assuming the consensus should really be "Yes, prot paladins can tank. But warrior is ideal". No?
As is the case with these kind of debates, in my opinion @Caperfin nails the core issue:
Caperfin wrote:
7 months ago
The topic of Viable and Optimal is a highly controversial topic as some people simply don't see the difference or mixed these words up and commonly interject their own misguided philosophy onto it. To put it simply, Optimal is the most efficient and foolproof solution to solve a problem that eliminates as many negative variables as possible and favors a more easy going route. Next, is Viable or commonly referred to as possible, which is often seen as the more challenging path to take but to many feels like a greater personal achievement.

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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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Caspus wrote:
2 weeks ago
I'll just go back to my normal rotation when kings gets nerfed personally (doubt it will).

Classic is a lot easier than private so regardless MTing will be easy.
It's not Kings only , i aggroed all mobs in low lvl dungeon by buffing 5 minutes blessing of wisdom either , which made me go like WTF .

/Wisdom is Priority
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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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I know, kings is just the lowest mana cost which is why we mention it the most.

   killerduki
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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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Caspus wrote:
2 weeks ago
Classic is a lot easier than private so regardless MTing will be easy.


That's what i am trying to tell to those noobs who preach and denigrate Paladins 24/24.

They still are living in Private Servers Dreams even today... Just Dream on and keep Dreaming.

Reality burning them .... Prot Paladins are now part of "Spell Cleave" , what's so special about it, is that such "spell cleave" is beyond min/maxers and pushing Rogues/Warriors DPS or TANKS off from their spots.

The Millenials favor us (Hybrids) more than ever before today.

Just enjoy when BWL release, feel the outcry of Rogues and Warriors who couldn't cope with the "Spell Cleave" .

/Wisdom is Priority
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2 weeks ago (1.13.2)
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killerduki wrote:
2 weeks ago
Reality burning them .... Prot Paladins are now part of "Spell Cleave" , what's so special about it, is that such "spell cleave" is beyond min/maxers and pushing Rogues/Warriors DPS or TANKS off from their spots.

The Millenials favor us (Hybrids) more than ever before today.

Just enjoy when BWL release, feel the outcry of Rogues and Warriors who couldn't cope with the "Spell Cleave" .
What? Okay... SO first of all, good spell cleave teams that are min/maxing, dont run a tank. Secondly, warriors were the kingpin of aoe threat when demo was broken. So the good spell cleave teams that hit 60 in week 1-2, either didnt run a tank, or used a warrior. Outside of this, feral is optimal IF you are running a tank... But again, good spellcleaves do not run a tank.

Also, warriors can melee cleave... No prot paladin is pushing a warrior from their spot, because a warriors spot is on a melee cleave. I was on a melee cleave as a warrior, and being that I built my team, I wanted to be on a melee cleave because its far easier and more achievable than a spell cleave.

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