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Kall wrote:
2 months ago
I skipped 16 out of 17 pages because I'm really surprised this lasted so long. I see peeps crunching numbers, I see others saying yes in dungeons, don't let your dreams be dreams and so on. But to be quite blunt, if you can't swim then stay the hell away from water.
You [Paladins] can't tank swap so forget about ever being MT or OT on any raid, that's the obvious part, but you're also absolutely dangerous to the rest of the party on any dungeon you set foot on as a tank. I would never invite a Paladin to tank any dungeons, that group is just setting itself up for failure and eventually disband.
You have what? a Hammer of Justice stun and Righteous Fury? It's not sustainable, and it's going to be a very slow run.
About time we had some comic relief here, appreciate the quick joke amongst this serious discussion about furry cosplayers trying to tank vs our Chad warriors of the light.

Now back to talking about how prot paladins are the best paladins.

1. Because we are.
2. Because we can get away with wearing 5/8 T2 judgement, arguably the coolest tier set in the game while tanking.
Try and beat that. You can't. You think druids are cool until they shift back into their leather gimp suit and you have warriors that look like giant can openers. It's not lunch time, its raid time. Dress more appropriate.

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Yeah... you let me know how that Taunt works for ya on Chromaggus mate.

And they say Blizzard games don't have bugs. - Anub'arak
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killerduki wrote:
2 months ago
29.5% is Classic Int = 1% Spell Crit (ONLY) for Paladins.
Holyfrog
Doesnt actually work that way 30. Int being 1% spellcrit is apparently just a private server thing seen on the Beta. Paladins have the exact same int to spellcrit conversation as any other class per the Beta. Perhaps if you actually followed the Beta development instead of leaving every discord in existence every time people disagree with you, you might know these things.

Private servers actually have it scripted this way which is most likely something that got changed in TBC to compensate for the nerf to Illumination at low tier gear levels (my guess).

Either way, my point is that that concluding that crit chance is twice as high in Classic based on Judging a mob 200 times on both private servers and on the Classic stress test is simply being stupid. How much int you need for 1% spellcrit isnt going to change that.

Besides, without seeing your actual data we cannot really know if even did a proper test. Judging mobs lower level than yourself will give you a higher chance to crit, and vice versa. From everything I have read on you in this thread so far, I have no reason to think you would properly have conducted a test like this on mobs of the exact same level.

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You got Ganus McAnused there @Kall!

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Kall wrote:
2 months ago
I skipped 16 out of 17 pages because I'm really surprised this lasted so long. I see peeps crunching numbers, I see others saying yes in dungeons, don't let your dreams be dreams and so on. But to be quite blunt, if you can't swim then stay the hell away from water.
You [Paladins] can't tank swap so forget about ever being MT or OT on any raid, that's the obvious part, but you're also absolutely dangerous to the rest of the party on any dungeon you set foot on as a tank. I would never invite a Paladin to tank any dungeons, that group is just setting itself up for failure and eventually disband.
You have what? a Hammer of Justice stun and Righteous Fury? It's not sustainable, and it's going to be a very slow run.
Then I suggest you actually read the thread? Having the opinion that Paladins are literally useless is just as bad as thinking they are the best tanks. Im just fascinated how people consistently stick to their opinions when those opinions are clearly not formed based on reality, but rather what they think and feel.

There's nothing wrong with Paladins as far as dungeons are concerned, and multiple videos has already been linked showing Paladins can clear 5 man dungeons just as well as other tanks.

The issue with the class is in raids mainly due to gear and single target threat output. Actually doing a 5 man isnt a problem.


Edit:
Kall wrote:
2 months ago
Yeah... you let me know how that Taunt works for ya on Chromaggus mate.
I guess I have should finished reading before responding. Chromaggus isnt tauntable so clearly this guy hasnt done content past MC. Hardly someone with a relevant opinion then.

   Pluuf Stfuppercut Darg727
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Holyfrog wrote:
2 months ago
my point is that that concluding that crit chance is twice as high
Holyfrog wrote:
2 months ago
I have should finished reading before responding
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   killerduki
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Kall wrote:
2 months ago
Yeah... you let me know how that Taunt works for ya on Chromaggus mate.

You're making it worse for yourself.

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Caspus wrote:
2 months ago
You're making it worse for yourself.
You're right @Caspus, so I found some time and followed @Holyfrog's advice and read some more of the thread. I don't appreciate people talking in absolutes, and I did just that whilst being wrong (and stubborn), so my apologies, same for goes for @Pluuf. My vision is also skewed because I vanilla'd mostly as Horde, in all that time I've seen one occasion where a prot paladin took over Overlord Wyrmthalak when UBRS was still a raid and the Warrior DC'ed, don't ask me how the ads were handled as I don't recall.

I've never done privates since then, so I'll concede that in 12'ish years people probably optimized and tinkered the shit out of it in privates, which I haven't kept tabs on, so yes, my opinion is dismissable, I'm not one to not admit when I'm wrong :)
.
Chromaggus isnt tauntable so clearly this guy hasnt done content past MC.
Actually I resent that because we did progress up to C'thun and a couple of bosses in Naxx, so Chromaggus was in hard farm, it's been like 12 or 13 years so I'm rusty on decade+ old tactics. On the other hand I made an ass of myself so I deserved that one @Holyfrog.

   Roadblock Pluuf
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Kall wrote:
2 months ago
On the other hand I made an ass of myself so I deserved that one @Holyfrog.
Dont worry about it. Everyone have this image in their mind of how Vanilla was based on what they have heard. It's just natural. Being willing to learn and get new perspectives is rare though,.
Hope you find the thread interesting between all the drama.

   Kall
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killerduki wrote:
2 months ago

Each time it does miss = Rage lost , Each time it does Dodge = Rage lost , Each time it does Parry = Rage lost , Each time it does not Crit = Rage lost


(especially with the Blue Post which Blizzard explained how Crit work and it's nearly 4 times lower than Pservers) .

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t ... /185675/12

Quoting :
Critical Strike chance is reduced by 1% per each additional level the target has over the player. (So if you have a 4% chance to crit an at-level target, you have a 1% chance to crit a +3-level target, in both clients.)
You do ignore that ^ it seems .
Imagine thinking 4% crit is 4 times lower chance to crit, what a fucking nutcase. Can someone just throw this dude out on the streets already? every single thing he is written about in this thread is wrong. He's claming shit are working on the Beta which they're not. Paladins are getting like 20% weaker compared to private servers because of stuff like SoR not proccing oils/enchants, there are partial resists etc. And this spreedsheat of rigerous testing seems to show that paladins are going to take 40-50% more damage then warriors. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... ub/pubhtml#

Anyway, any paladin that wants other people to take them seriously. Stop wasting your time reading what Duki posts. Its mainly incorrect information because he can't really accurately test things due to him not knowing how basic math works like how 4% less crit doesnt translate to 4 times lower chance to crit.

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Ill also save Duki some time and post the Beta list we compiled over the last few months with Paladin spell behaviour on the Beta. That way there's no need to re-test mechanics and be confused over how they really work.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

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Bigdaddy wrote:
2 months ago
killerduki wrote:
2 months ago

Each time it does miss = Rage lost , Each time it does Dodge = Rage lost , Each time it does Parry = Rage lost , Each time it does not Crit = Rage lost


(especially with the Blue Post which Blizzard explained how Crit work and it's nearly 4 times lower than Pservers) .

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t ... /185675/12

Quoting :
Critical Strike chance is reduced by 1% per each additional level the target has over the player. (So if you have a 4% chance to crit an at-level target, you have a 1% chance to crit a +3-level target, in both clients.)
You do ignore that ^ it seems .
Imagine thinking 4% crit is 4 times lower chance to crit, what a fucking nutcase. Can someone just throw this dude out on the streets already? every single thing he is written about in this thread is wrong. He's claming shit are working on the Beta which they're not. Paladins are getting like 20% weaker compared to private servers because of stuff like SoR not proccing oils/enchants, there are partial resists etc. And this spreedsheat of rigerous testing seems to show that paladins are going to take 40-50% more damage then warriors. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... ub/pubhtml#

Anyway, any paladin that wants other people to take them seriously. Stop wasting your time reading what Duki posts. Its mainly incorrect information because he can't really accurately test things due to him not knowing how basic math works like how 4% less crit doesnt translate to 4 times lower chance to crit.

You write like Taladril have everything correct there = Which isn't , neither he has anything properly documented regarding Protection Paladins.

All he got is Private Server and Hearsay theorycrafts (all those who pretend an experts of Prot Paladins like Holyfrog/Cystheen/Skarm , but have no clue what they talk even about regarding Protection Paladins).

First of all , i never advocated SoR proccing oils/enchants, that's Holyfrog ways , not mine , neither i said it suppose to , opposite of that , i also argued with Theloras about it either , that it SHOULD NEVER PROC THEM , only WEAPON PROCS (which is working correct).

Partial Resists did and do exist in Pservers, which are so much higher than Classic even!

The 4% less crit is not what i wrote, it's what BLUE POST as OFFICIAL wrote!

Straight your facts before you come up with more of the hates regarding me and more of these lies!

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So which server are you rolling on Duki? I'd like to pick the other one

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Kall wrote:
2 months ago
I skipped 16 out of 17 pages because I'm really surprised this lasted so long. I see peeps crunching numbers, I see others saying yes in dungeons, don't let your dreams be dreams and so on. But to be quite blunt, if you can't swim then stay the hell away from water.
You [Paladins] can't tank swap so forget about ever being MT or OT on any raid, that's the obvious part, but you're also absolutely dangerous to the rest of the party on any dungeon you set foot on as a tank. I would never invite a Paladin to tank any dungeons, that group is just setting itself up for failure and eventually disband.
You have what? a Hammer of Justice stun and Righteous Fury? It's not sustainable, and it's going to be a very slow run.


Education for you , enjoy.

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Lurking here for a few months, first time posting. Just wanted to say that killerduki should seriously just stop posting, I can't remember the last time I read that much stupid shit from one person. It was amusing for a while, now it just makes me irrationally angry. Seek help, dude.

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Holyfrog wrote:
2 months ago
killerduki wrote:
2 months ago
29.5% is Classic Int = 1% Spell Crit (ONLY) for Paladins.
Holyfrog
Doesnt actually work that way 30. Int being 1% spellcrit is apparently just a private server thing seen on the Beta. Paladins have the exact same int to spellcrit conversation as any other class per the Beta. Perhaps if you actually followed the Beta development instead of leaving every discord in existence every time people disagree with you, you might know these things.

Private servers actually have it scripted this way which is most likely something that got changed in TBC to compensate for the nerf to Illumination at low tier gear levels (my guess).

Either way, my point is that that concluding that crit chance is twice as high in Classic based on Judging a mob 200 times on both private servers and on the Classic stress test is simply being stupid. How much int you need for 1% spellcrit isnt going to change that.

Besides, without seeing your actual data we cannot really know if even did a proper test. Judging mobs lower level than yourself will give you a higher chance to crit, and vice versa. From everything I have read on you in this thread so far, I have no reason to think you would properly have conducted a test like this on mobs of the exact same level.
https://paladin-guide.blogspot.com/2005/12/stats.html

WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 21, 2005

Base chances of a crit are as follows:

Spells = [5 + INT/X*]%

Melee = [5 + AGI/18]%

X* should be a number in the 27,5 - 29,5 range

https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Attribute?oldid=322315
Revision as of 01:38, November 13, 2006

A recent post by Tseric gave the exact figures at level 60 for spell crit for all casters except paladins, they are as follows:

http://web.archive.org/web/200611102258 ... 1828&sid=1

08/25/2006

1 intellect = 15 mana
28.5 intellect = 1% chance to score a critical strike with spells*


Education for you.

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Kaz wrote:
2 months ago
Lurking here for a few months, first time posting. Just wanted to say that killerduki should seriously just stop posting, I can't remember the last time I read that much stupid shit from one person. It was amusing for a while, now it just makes me irrationally angry. Seek help, dude.
Despite the fact that he acts like a moron, and despite the fact that he makes an ass of himself and the class, and despite the fact that he has outbursts occasionally, be careful how you address him... You may just get reprimanded by moderation.

2 weeks away from Classic. He intends to lead a raiding guild and main tank ALL of the content as a paladin.

We will be following his progress on his youtube channel. I assume that we will see VERY few, if any uploads. You may get a late phase 1 upload after he is geared fighting single bosses, but you will never see an uncut version of him maintanking MC during progression.

   killerduki Xaldron
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Holyfrog wrote:
2 months ago
So which server are you rolling on Duki? I'd like to pick the other one
Decision stand on the Guildies.

========Edited===========

Golemagg EU Alliance .

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killerduki wrote:
2 months ago
Golemagg EU Alliance .
By the phallus of https://classic.wowhead.com/npc=3317/ollanus, I say ! So the mighty Killerduki - Champion of Light, Guardian of the Realm, Protector of the Innocents & Defender of the Alliance will not be joining the Deratization of Kor'Kron Vermin !?! What a bloody disgrace !!!

   killerduki
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This was your exact quote, I assumed you didnt understand what Blizzard was writing since you seem to lack basic understanding of the english language.

killerduki wrote:
2 months ago
(especially with the Blue Post which Blizzard explained how Crit work and it's nearly 4 times lower than Pservers) .
The problem is that you are saying other people are using "only P-servers" as proof but you do that yourself. Double standards much? Claiming things like Raids will do 4 times less damage and linking a fucking Scarlet monastery run as proof?
You're also claiming that paladins have the best "threat" which you also back up with "proof" by hitting a lvl 1 dummy with gear you never had on a private server, Hardly doing enough tps do keep a warrior/mage/rogue in that phase from overaggroing you. Even if those players are bad. Post me a video of you spamming, Judgement, SoR, Holy Shield, Consecration, Exorcism and dont run out of mana in the first minute. On a level 63 target that actually have 14% parry, 6% dodge/block and your miss chance, + glancing blows, you would probably end up with around the same threat. But you would run oom so fast that it would never work in any fight thats longer then 1 minute. While Druids reach 1.8k - 2k tps easy with MCP and Warriors while DW tanking. And no the extra parry wont do enough to change anything, so stop using that argument its retarded since you dont even know how warriors/druids works.

Also you totally ignored that paladins are going to take 50% more damage in Naxx, That doesnt really make the viable my dude. Sure you can tank MC and ZG, but thats where it ends. Turns up that tier 3 for warriors is actually that good ;)

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Bigdaddy wrote:
2 months ago
You're also claiming that paladins have the best "threat" which you also back up with "proof" by hitting a lvl 1 dummy with gear you never had on a private server, Hardly doing enough tps do keep a warrior/mage/rogue in that phase from overaggroing you.
You really ignored the explanation part about that test in this forum?

It would have been nice if you self quoted it and then re write this again, will prove you are not an ignorant .
Bigdaddy wrote:
2 months ago
On a level 63 target that actually have 14% parry, 6% dodge/block and your miss chance, + glancing blows, you would probably end up with around the same threat.
Do you know that most affected by such stats are going to be Warriors? Glancing Blows = Reduced Damage and Threat to Warriors by far + less Rage Generation = lower threat.

Especially 14% Parry when a "DW Warrior" is going to "Reckbomb himself" from Boss if he dare to do it as such.
Bigdaddy wrote:
2 months ago
But you would run oom so fast that it would never work in any fight thats longer then 1 minute.
The Video you ignored the explanation about it, did last for 7 Minutes spamming Abilities , i was nowhere near oom until the end.
Bigdaddy wrote:
2 months ago
While Druids reach 1.8k - 2k tps easy with MCP and Warriors while DW tanking.
14% Parry = Reckbomb , Reckbomb , Reckbomb by Boss = Dead Tank . That is how they will have the feeling when they do it .
Bigdaddy wrote:
2 months ago
And no the extra parry wont do enough to change anything, so stop using that argument its retarded since you dont even know how warriors/druids works.
Yeah sure , let imagine each 6th personal swing = you eat extra Swing by Boss (As dual wield each 8 seconds). Not even Crushing Blows are going to compensate the full Swings which are going to eat your Shield Block and perhaps land Crushing/Critical against you.
Bigdaddy wrote:
2 months ago
Also you totally ignored that paladins are going to take 50% more damage in Naxx,
Provide me evidence about it.
Bigdaddy wrote:
2 months ago
Sure you can tank MC and ZG,
You mean this :

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Holyfrog wrote:
2 months ago
Ill also save Duki some time and post the Beta list we compiled over the last few months with Paladin spell behaviour on the Beta. That way there's no need to re-test mechanics and be confused over how they really work.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
Hey, thanks a lot for this list!
So, so far (if these are not beta bugs), only oils/chili/JoL and JoW cannot be procced by SoR. If the proc off procs mechanic is also a thing (anyone could test it so far?), some combos like Axe of the Deep Woods + Fiery Blaze Enchantment + SoR + oil/chili + any judgement could be pretty interesting in some situations (especially with multiple targets).

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Kall wrote:
2 months ago
Yeah... you let me know how that Taunt works for ya on Chromaggus mate.
leap frog threat

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killerduki wrote:
2 months ago
Bigdaddy wrote:
2 months ago
You're also claiming that paladins have the best "threat" which you also back up with "proof" by hitting a lvl 1 dummy with gear you never had on a private server, Hardly doing enough tps do keep a warrior/mage/rogue in that phase from overaggroing you.
You really ignored the explanation part about that test in this forum?

It would have been nice if you self quoted it and then re write this again, will prove you are not an ignorant .
Okay lets break down that video abit, to see why its a shotgun loaded with bullshit.

Lets start with the obvious one, Flask of supreme power.. Really? You already have a very small hp pool vs druids/warriors. You really going to skip out on titans? No. You're forced to use it.

SoR doesnt proc either Shadow oil or Dragonsbreaths chili on classic, which it does in your video. So those are going to do alot less.

24% of your threat in that video comes from "white" damage, add on SoR to that and its alot more. If the target keeps parrying/dodging you its going to result in alot less threat from this, same with glancing, reducing the threat you deal since you deal less damage. and yes the same goes for warriors/druids but saying that it affects them isnt an argument so stop bringing it up. I'm bringing it up since its a non factor in your "based" TPS on a level 1 target test.

You aren't spamming your abilities (not even consecration lol, you see it wear of alot of time not even managing 100% upptime), if you are tanking with this gear you're most likely tanking Naxx content which means you need mana for both Holy shield and Exorcism. which are 2 costly applities that you are currently ignoring. And lets not forget that JoW doesnt proc on SoR, and wont even be allowed as a "debuff" in any respectable guild. when you instead can replace it with really great damage increasing debuffs for fire mages etc.

And lastly, a paladin will never ever have Thunderfury. Even if you are tanking in a guild as a paladin. Its unreasonable to not give the warrior Thunderfury since it does Way way way more threat for warriors. first the 1,495 modifier to the proc and 1.33 attackspeed from flurry + spammable attacks every 1.5 second makes them proc Thunderfury so much more. Since paladins only have the double chance to proc it (But can't actually get double procs in the same swing so its kinda bad) and since TF is 19% of your threat here, we're probably down to a realistic 300-400 TPS.

Adding in Exocism and Holy shield (retribution aura and sanctuary) will increase your threat by alot, for a very limited time. but with those up you probably round back to around 600-700 tps again for aslong as you have mana, which should run oom in about 30 seconds - 1 minute spamming all those abilities. With mana/runes. then after that all you got are white swings and thorns, which doesnt add up to much.

And dont link your stupid fucking list about consumables, because other tanks have those aswell and warriors and druids scale way better with worldbuffs and consumables then paladins does, so thats a mute point.


killerduki wrote:
2 months ago
Bigdaddy wrote:
2 months ago
On a level 63 target that actually have 14% parry, 6% dodge/block and your miss chance, + glancing blows, you would probably end up with around the same threat.
Do you know that most affected by such stats are going to be Warriors? Glancing Blows = Reduced Damage and Threat to Warriors by far + less Rage Generation = lower threat.

Especially 14% Parry when a "DW Warrior" is going to "Reckbomb himself" from Boss if he dare to do it as such.
I agree that they are most effected by it, but that doesnt necessarily means it that bad, since warriors have weapon skill options the glancing blows wont be that bad, so Rage generation is hardly affected there (It also seems that rage generated from damage dealt is higher on the classic beta vs private servers on lower levels, huh imagine that, that could translate into higher threat at max level aswell. Impossible to tell without actuall testing) So in the end it actually might be straight up better or almost no difference, Impossible to tell at this moment without any raids. But unlike you I don't just plainout lie about stuff before doing real unbiased testing.

And let me explain why DW warriors wont "Reckbomb themselfs" Since you dont even know what parry haste is, First they can only benefit once from parry haste between attacks, and to get 40% less on their swingtime they are going to need to perfectly time parry 0.01 second after their auto attack, otherwise its not going to have as a big effect. If 1 second have gone by before they manage to parry, the parry haste is going to push the auto attack forward by around 0,4 seconds vs if its straight after its auto attack (assuming it have 2.0 speed) 0,8 seconds. So they will do very slightly more damage, almost insignificant, A perfectly timed parry will never happen so. Fury warriors DW are already generating so much Rage so its going to be fine without a doubt.

And lets not forget that you're contradicting yourself with (4 times lower damage bla bla bla) with then saying that parry haste will kill a warrior? Jesus dude you're all over the place, makes you look like a freaking clown. Even if its pure bullshit.
killerduki wrote:
2 months ago
Bigdaddy wrote:
2 months ago
But you would run oom so fast that it would never work in any fight thats longer then 1 minute.
The Video you ignored the explanation about it, did last for 7 Minutes spamming Abilities , i was nowhere near oom until the end.
As I said earlier you ran oom several times, and you didnt spam your abilties, you didnt have 100% upptime on consecration, holy shield and exorcism. Next time fight an undead target because thats the only target a paladin can use its full potential against, which isnt even impressing.
killerduki wrote:
2 months ago
Bigdaddy wrote:
2 months ago
While Druids reach 1.8k - 2k tps easy with MCP and Warriors while DW tanking.
14% Parry = Reckbomb , Reckbomb , Reckbomb by Boss = Dead Tank . That is how they will have the feeling when they do it .
Reckbomb is not parry haste. Its hardly even fucking matters but you're to dumb to understand basic mechanics. If i do 10 attacks, 1 of those are going to be a parry, which might not even increase the bosses haste at all because its at its end of its swing timer. #Vanillamechanicsthatkillerdukihavenoideaabout.
killerduki wrote:
2 months ago
Bigdaddy wrote:
2 months ago

And no the extra parry wont do enough to change anything, so stop using that argument its retarded since you dont even know how warriors/druids works.
Yeah sure , let imagine each 6th personal swing = you eat extra Swing by Boss (As dual wield each 8 seconds). Not even Crushing Blows are going to compensate the full Swings which are going to eat your Shield Block and perhaps land Crushing/Critical against you.
Yawn.. Warriors have more or less the same avoidance as a Paladin without a damn shield, and can still reach armor cap so. Who cares? Crushing blows/crits doesnt kill Warriors/Druids unlike Paladins that have very limited gear and hp, 2k less hp unbuffed vs warriors. And even if its a boss thats hits hard enough to warrant a shield, Fury/prot warriors can still use one and still get the benefit from the specc, which you don't seem to understand. While it slightly reduced their TPS and Rage gain. They are still miles above paladins 0 mana strategies.

killerduki wrote:
2 months ago
Bigdaddy wrote:
2 months ago
Also you totally ignored that paladins are going to take 50% more damage in Naxx,
Provide me evidence about it.
Sure, its just basic math, doesnt need any proof. Just some simple calculations based on the available gear and fights and some simulations. since warriors are going to have defensive stance, way higher avoidance from block/dodge/parry. It all adds up in the end. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... ub/pubhtml#

Go check it out yourself, you might actually learn something. If thats even possible.
killerduki wrote:
2 months ago
Bigdaddy wrote:
2 months ago
Sure you can tank MC and ZG,
You mean this :

Image

Image

Image
GZ! Screenshots as proof, My my how credible! Are you even trying at this point or are you actually suffering from a disability? Those are from private servers! And you're not even tanking Thaddius since you're not even on the threat meter, the tank probably died in the last second.

You're oom (With mana potion on CD HAHA) on Maexxna and the boss isnt even at 70% haha with almost getting overaggroed on the threat meter, GJ! Really seeing that potential there. I bet that attempt was a whipefest. Atleast these screenshots prove how damn horrible prot paladins are. So thank you for that. (You're dead when she enrages and does her last web wrap but you know that, thats why you use pictures instead of videos)

and Twin emps? You can tank them with a pretty much anything, So I'm not suprised that guild threw you a bone and let you tank it. Hardly proof of anything. makes you stand out like a clown by trying to use it in an argument. I can post a pic of a dead cat and it provides the exact amount of proof to anything I say.

Anyway those pictures have been posted a couple of times, and all it makes people do is roll their eyes and think. Is this guy actually this fucking stupid?

TLDR; Killerduki is full of shit, doesnt know about basic mechanics, all his tests are done on P-servers and don't reflect reality/Wowclassic and are always super biased,

I would probably listen to Holyfrog, he actually seem to have tested material from the classic beta in forms of VIDEOS. Join the discord: https://discordapp.com/invite/ZfwNmmC if you actually have questions about some real information about protection paladins.

Paladin Protection
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2 months ago (Beta)
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Guest wrote:
2 months ago
Okay lets break down that video abit, to see why its a shotgun loaded with bullshit.

Lets start with the obvious one, Flask of supreme power.. Really? You already have a very small hp pool vs druids/warriors. You really going to skip out on titans? No. You're forced to use it.

SoR doesnt proc either Shadow oil or Dragonsbreaths chili on classic, which it does in your video. So those are going to do alot less.

24% of your threat in that video comes from "white" damage, add on SoR to that and its alot more. If the target keeps parrying/dodging you its going to result in alot less threat from this, same with glancing, reducing the threat you deal since you deal less damage. and yes the same goes for warriors/druids but saying that it affects them isnt an argument so stop bringing it up. I'm bringing it up since its a non factor in your "based" TPS on a level 1 target test.

You aren't spamming your abilities (not even consecration lol, you see it wear of alot of time not even managing 100% upptime), if you are tanking with this gear you're most likely tanking Naxx content which means you need mana for both Holy shield and Exorcism. which are 2 costly applities that you are currently ignoring. And lets not forget that JoW doesnt proc on SoR, and wont even be allowed as a "debuff" in any respectable guild. when you instead can replace it with really great damage increasing debuffs for fire mages etc.

And lastly, a paladin will never ever have Thunderfury. Even if you are tanking in a guild as a paladin. Its unreasonable to not give the warrior Thunderfury since it does Way way way more threat for warriors. first the 1,495 modifier to the proc and 1.33 attackspeed from flurry + spammable attacks every 1.5 second makes them proc Thunderfury so much more. Since paladins only have the double chance to proc it (But can't actually get double procs in the same swing so its kinda bad) and since TF is 19% of your threat here, we're probably down to a realistic 300-400 TPS.

Adding in Exocism and Holy shield (retribution aura and sanctuary) will increase your threat by alot, for a very limited time. but with those up you probably round back to around 600-700 tps again for aslong as you have mana, which should run oom in about 30 seconds - 1 minute spamming all those abilities. With mana/runes. then after that all you got are white swings and thorns, which doesnt add up to much.

And dont link your stupid fucking list about consumables, because other tanks have those aswell and warriors and druids scale way better with worldbuffs and consumables then paladins does, so thats a mute point.
Your ignorance is nice , so ill re quote the whole discussion you completely ignoring to read before you write all of this:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1655&start=125

You know how much of White Swings reduced are going to change the same threat for Paladin?! Perhaps 5% of what you see, tell us now how much lower Rage Generation is going to be for a Warrior being affected by Glancing Blows and how much lower threat by White Swings is going to be thanks to Glancing Blows affected by Defiance and Def Stance?!

Now to debunk the very same Video :

646.7 TPS = 1k DPS handling and that's without :

1- Holy Shield
2- Retribution Aura
3- Blessing of Sanctuary
4- Sanctity Aura
5- All 3 Judgements at once
6- Exorcism
7- Parry Haste
8- Innervates
9- Power Infusion
10- Holy Mightstone
11- Holy Water
12- Crit Buff by group.
13- World Buffs (all of them)
14- Hunter Pet Buff
15- Blessing of Might
16- Blessing of King
17- Warrior Shouts


Did you know that with all of these (perhaps i missed some) , you can certainly improve threat 2-3 times higher than this threat on sitting target Dummy?!

Did you know that all the SoR procs (which wont exists in original Classic) will not even reduce our threat by 5% ?!

How much Warrior Tanks and Druid Tanks are going to be nerfed in original Classic due to Glancing Blows, reduced Crit by 4 times (which it is beneficial bug for them in pservers) are going to suffer when original classic release??!

/Wisdom is Priority
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