I am well aware of #nochanges, but this is something that I have been curious about. The game already has treasure chests scattered across the zones, but the rewards from the chests are typically pretty awful. I am thinking about higher end chests with a risk/reward tied to them.

This idea would only apply to PvP servers really. It would give players another incentive to be out in the world. What if there were special treasure chests that spawned in contested zones. The level 50-60 contested zones would drop higher end items. The items would be random, but could include tradeskill resources, recipes, gold, and even honor marks. They would have a small chance to drop epic pets, mounts, BoE items, or even unique items only dropped from chests. The dwarf racial wouldn't work on these chests for balance reasons.

The chests could only be unlocked by an NPC in a capital city, and the chests would drop and be lootable if you were killed in PvP combat. So you could loot a chest and hearth back to a capital city, or try to collect more chests at the risk of dying and dropping them all. Having to run across the zones with chests could put you in danger, so your hearthstone and the 1 hour timer would be a factor. You could become a treasure hunter.

The game already has a ton of incentive to traverse the world. I cant see this increasing the incentive to be out and travelling. This would likely just end up being a gimmicky thing that would supplement other farming methods. To add, this would be awful in phase 1 with layering for obvious reasons. I believe Blizzard has implemented this sort of thing in retail already, it never really gained any traction.

It will either be too useless to matter and will just supplement other farming methods OR it will be incredibly valuable and controlled by the top two PvP guilds on your server. A great method to make the rich, richer. A better version of this that already exists is the STV arena chest.

"You could become a treasure hunter." Take skinning and hunt devilsaurs. It will have all of the features youre looking for, only the skin is harder to take from a 50FT Trex than it is to pickup a chest. As far as lootable corpses on death, I love that this would increase the penalties associated to PvP, but I dont think it would suit the MMO.

Edit: Im imagining timeless isles all over again... It was awful... just awful. lol

I’d rather see treasure chests have random repeatable quests in them.

Stfuppercut wrote: ↑

5 years ago

The game already has a ton of incentive to traverse the world. I cant see this increasing the incentive to be out and travelling. This would likely just end up being a gimmicky thing that would supplement other farming methods. To add, this would be awful in phase 1 with layering for obvious reasons. I believe Blizzard has implemented this sort of thing in retail already, it never really gained any traction.

It will either be too useless to matter and will just supplement other farming methods OR it will be incredibly valuable and controlled by the top two PvP guilds on your server. A great method to make the rich, richer. A better version of this that already exists is the STV arena chest.

"You could become a treasure hunter." Take skinning and hunt devilsaurs. It will have all of the features youre looking for, only the skin is harder to take from a 50FT Trex than it is to pickup a chest. As far as lootable corpses on death, I love that this would increase the penalties associated to PvP, but I dont think it would suit the MMO.

It would certainly not work in Phase 1 due to current layer, but could be added afterwards. The chests would be scattered and spawn randomly across tons of zones. It would be difficult for a guild to just control them, but clearly that is always a concern. The chest rewards would be very RNG. You could open a chest and only get a few Firebloom, then open a different chest and get an very rare epic pet. Players love rolling the die. Imagine getting to open your chests at the <Locksmith> NPC in Stormwind. There would be a risk of hoarding chests and not turning them in as well, since you would drop them upon death in PvP. I know this idea is pretty foreign to Classic, but this kind of system could offer tons of replayabilty. I think players should be able to rank up more easily doing World PvP, even if it meant earning honor marks from the chests.

couchatron wrote: ↑

5 years ago

I’d rather see treasure chests have random repeatable quests in them.

Do you mean you open a chest and get a quest to do?

Tune in next time when the RedridgeGnoll advertises tunnel mounts! Yes! These mounts are the opposite of flying mounts in every way... Burrow beneath your enemies at lightning speed! Far more suited for Classic than flying, because burrowing is the antithesis of flying!

Stfuppercut wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Tune in next time when the RedridgeTroll advertises tunnel mounts!

This is Classic WOW and there is no instant gratification involved with it. It is a work for it game with an occasional worthy drop outside of instances. The chance that you just might get something usable from a chest is what made it exciting. If there is nothing worthy then just sell it to a vendor and move on.

Zacheous wrote: ↑

5 years ago

This is Classic WOW and there is no instant gratification involved with it. It is a work for it game with an occasional worthy drop outside of instances. The chance that you just might get something usable from a chest is what made it exciting. If there is nothing worthy then just sell it to a vendor and move on.

That is the whole appeal of this Treasure Hunt system. You roam PvP zones collecting these chests. The chests have a low chance to drop rare or unique items. The chests drop from your inventory if you are killed in PvP. You can only unlock the chests in a Capital City, so to decide whether to hunt for more chests or return home with your spoils. Because the chests remain locked, you would never know if you lost a great item by being ganked and looted. You can just rationalize that the chest you lost was probably junk.

Imagine that in zones like Eastern Plaguelands, Silithus, or Winterspring you had these high end treasure chests hidden across the zone. Maybe deep in a Yeti Cave or hidden in the upstairs room of a forsaken tavern. Then add in the pvp loot element, which adds even more risk. Coming across another player and killing them, then discovering they were carrying one of these chests. Lo and behold! You return to Orgrimmar, unlock it, and are surprised with a rare BoE. Obviously, the drop rates from the chests would be low, but that occasional worth drop as you stated make it all worthwhile.

Guest wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Imagine that in zones like Eastern Plaguelands, Silithus, or Winterspring you had these high end treasure chests hidden across the zone. Maybe deep in a Yeti Cave or hidden in the upstairs room of a forsaken tavern. Then add in the pvp loot element, which adds even more risk. Coming across another player and killing them, then discovering they were carrying one of these chests. Lo and behold! You return to Orgrimmar, unlock it, and are surprised with a rare BoE. Obviously, the drop rates from the chests would be low, but that occasional worth drop as you stated make it all worthwhile.

Soooo, almost like war mode in BFA?

No thanks…

ShamelessEU wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Guest wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Imagine that in zones like Eastern Plaguelands, Silithus, or Winterspring you had these high end treasure chests hidden across the zone. Maybe deep in a Yeti Cave or hidden in the upstairs room of a forsaken tavern. Then add in the pvp loot element, which adds even more risk. Coming across another player and killing them, then discovering they were carrying one of these chests. Lo and behold! You return to Orgrimmar, unlock it, and are surprised with a rare BoE. Obviously, the drop rates from the chests would be low, but that occasional worth drop as you stated make it all worthwhile.

Soooo, almost like war mode in BFA?

No thanks…

How is it like warmode in BFA? What is that about?

Guest wrote: ↑

5 years ago

ShamelessEU wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Guest wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Imagine that in zones like Eastern Plaguelands, Silithus, or Winterspring you had these high end treasure chests hidden across the zone. Maybe deep in a Yeti Cave or hidden in the upstairs room of a forsaken tavern. Then add in the pvp loot element, which adds even more risk. Coming across another player and killing them, then discovering they were carrying one of these chests. Lo and behold! You return to Orgrimmar, unlock it, and are surprised with a rare BoE. Obviously, the drop rates from the chests would be low, but that occasional worth drop as you stated make it all worthwhile.

Soooo, almost like war mode in BFA?

No thanks…

How is it like warmode in BFA? What is that about?

With treasure drops and people gunning for them.. And all of those loot crate ideas bring nothing of value to actual classic wow… Stop trolling

Guest wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Zacheous wrote: ↑

5 years ago

This is Classic WOW and there is no instant gratification involved with it. It is a work for it game with an occasional worthy drop outside of instances. The chance that you just might get something usable from a chest is what made it exciting. If there is nothing worthy then just sell it to a vendor and move on.

That is the whole appeal of this Treasure Hunt system. You roam PvP zones collecting these chests. The chests have a low chance to drop rare or unique items. The chests drop from your inventory if you are killed in PvP. You can only unlock the chests in a Capital City, so to decide whether to hunt for more chests or return home with your spoils. Because the chests remain locked, you would never know if you lost a great item by being ganked and looted. You can just rationalize that the chest you lost was probably junk.

Imagine that in zones like Eastern Plaguelands, Silithus, or Winterspring you had these high end treasure chests hidden across the zone. Maybe deep in a Yeti Cave or hidden in the upstairs room of a forsaken tavern. Then add in the pvp loot element, which adds even more risk. Coming across another player and killing them, then discovering they were carrying one of these chests. Lo and behold! You return to Orgrimmar, unlock it, and are surprised with a rare BoE. Obviously, the drop rates from the chests would be low, but that occasional worth drop as you stated make it all worthwhile.

can find them a bit here and there (through looting) chance to drop rare items, not unlockable everywhere (at least not for everyone)

so, basically you want Junkboxes?


Sure, they dont drop from pvp, but nothing else does either, so...

Hey look at this Large Mithril Chest, it's all mine!
[ Ice Cold Milk ]

I kind of get what you're getting at with all these posts, @RedridgeGnoll.

You know Classic could be added to. An expansion of sorts, but not Burning Crusade. Something to keep it alive after Naxxramas, something where we never have to look for a new home and we can all keep investing in our same character instead of rerolling Fresh over and over. Something to build on.

But I don't think that a new system or method is the way to go for a Classic+. The reason being that Blizzard creates new systems all the time in the real game. For every expansion it seems like they add something new to try out to fix what was broken. But Classic isn't broken: that's what makes it special. In the rare instances of things that don't need fixing, what is the method of improvement?

I propose that if there were a Classic+, not that I am expecting to want or need one, instead of a new system like what BC gave us with eeriely similar rep grinds that all had vendors in Shattrath, flying mounts, a separate world, etc. We just need keep Classic but more of it.

What would more mean? It could be many things, but mainly, just flesh out Classic more and more. Not just the Azshara Crater Battleground or adding Karazhan to Classic as it was meant to be, but other things that are threaded throughout the original world to keep it all in sync could be too, but all in the same vein as the original content. It would need to heavily mimic the old style of everything.

Blizzard would need a whole wall of ideas and many dedicated people to choose the right path. People don't have confidence that they'll choose the right one. I don't either. The magic they had from back then appears to be dead.

ShamelessEU wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Guest wrote: ↑

5 years ago

ShamelessEU wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Guest wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Imagine that in zones like Eastern Plaguelands, Silithus, or Winterspring you had these high end treasure chests hidden across the zone. Maybe deep in a Yeti Cave or hidden in the upstairs room of a forsaken tavern. Then add in the pvp loot element, which adds even more risk. Coming across another player and killing them, then discovering they were carrying one of these chests. Lo and behold! You return to Orgrimmar, unlock it, and are surprised with a rare BoE. Obviously, the drop rates from the chests would be low, but that occasional worth drop as you stated make it all worthwhile.

Soooo, almost like war mode in BFA?

No thanks…

How is it like warmode in BFA? What is that about?

With treasure drops and people gunning for them.. And all of those loot crate ideas bring nothing of value to actual classic wow… Stop trolling

I just read about what they added in Legion. First of all, the rewards in Legion are not as desirable as what you could earn in Classic. You also can't loot those chests from other players. There is no PvP loot mechanic. Loot chests that use RNG are very popular. You could loot these locked chests and even sell them on the AH house. This system has many perks. It offers rewards for PvP, a new way to farm items, and uses an RNG dice roll mechanics.

Linguine wrote: ↑

5 years ago

I kind of get what you're getting at with all these posts, @RedridgeGnoll.

You know Classic could be added to. An expansion of sorts, but not Burning Crusade. Something to keep it alive after Naxxramas, something where we never have to look for a new home and we can all keep investing in our same character instead of rerolling Fresh over and over. Something to build on.

But I don't think that a new system or method is the way to go for a Classic+. The reason being that Blizzard creates new systems all the time in the real game. For every expansion it seems like they add something new to try out to fix what was broken. But Classic isn't broken: that's what makes it special. In the rare instances of things that don't need fixing, what is the method of improvement?

I propose that if there were a Classic+, not that I am expecting to want or need one, instead of a new system like what BC gave us with eeriely similar rep grinds that all had vendors in Shattrath, flying mounts, a separate world, etc. We just need keep Classic but more of it.

What would more mean? It could be many things, but mainly, just flesh out Classic more and more. Not just the Azshara Crater Battleground or adding Karazhan to Classic as it was meant to be, but other things that are threaded throughout the original world to keep it all in sync could be too, but all in the same vein as the original content. It would need to heavily mimic the old style of everything.

Blizzard would need a whole wall of ideas and many dedicated people to choose the right path. People don't have confidence that they'll choose the right one. I don't either. The magic they had from back then appears to be dead.

I think Post-Classic is the only path. TBC will not be the success that many think. The private server scene has revealed that. PvP is popular, more so than ever. PvP loot systems are what's in right now. The issue with Classic WoW, is that you have this huge world and faction conflict, yet most of the battle is settled inside of instanced PvP zones. What makes WoW different is that it is a persistenr open world. PvP can provide games with near infinite replayability.

The treasure hunt system adds more risk/reward to pvp. It also encourages players to roam the zones. Retail WoW makes no sense. The reward structure is broken, and character progression is meaningless. Classic WoW does not have this issue. However the way honor is distributed for PvP activity is imbalanced. Battlegrounds become your only option. There needs to be another system thst reeards players for PvPing. Small scale PvP with stakes is very popular, and it is something that was missing from Classic WoW, especially later on. A system like the one I am proposing, add a whole new dimension to PvP in WoW. That type of gameplay could be what Classic was missing all along.

Guest wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Guest wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Zacheous wrote: ↑

5 years ago

This is Classic WOW and there is no instant gratification involved with it. It is a work for it game with an occasional worthy drop outside of instances. The chance that you just might get something usable from a chest is what made it exciting. If there is nothing worthy then just sell it to a vendor and move on.

That is the whole appeal of this Treasure Hunt system. You roam PvP zones collecting these chests. The chests have a low chance to drop rare or unique items. The chests drop from your inventory if you are killed in PvP. You can only unlock the chests in a Capital City, so to decide whether to hunt for more chests or return home with your spoils. Because the chests remain locked, you would never know if you lost a great item by being ganked and looted. You can just rationalize that the chest you lost was probably junk.

Imagine that in zones like Eastern Plaguelands, Silithus, or Winterspring you had these high end treasure chests hidden across the zone. Maybe deep in a Yeti Cave or hidden in the upstairs room of a forsaken tavern. Then add in the pvp loot element, which adds even more risk. Coming across another player and killing them, then discovering they were carrying one of these chests. Lo and behold! You return to Orgrimmar, unlock it, and are surprised with a rare BoE. Obviously, the drop rates from the chests would be low, but that occasional worth drop as you stated make it all worthwhile.

can find them a bit here and there (through looting) chance to drop rare items, not unlockable everywhere (at least not for everyone)

so, basically you want Junkboxes?


Sure, they dont drop from pvp, but nothing else does either, so...

The treasure chests and junkboxes in WoW never drop anything good. These chests would drop unique and rare items that players actually want. Make it an activitt players can pursue with the chance that big rewards.

ShamelessEU wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Guest wrote: ↑

5 years ago

ShamelessEU wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Guest wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Imagine that in zones like Eastern Plaguelands, Silithus, or Winterspring you had these high end treasure chests hidden across the zone. Maybe deep in a Yeti Cave or hidden in the upstairs room of a forsaken tavern. Then add in the pvp loot element, which adds even more risk. Coming across another player and killing them, then discovering they were carrying one of these chests. Lo and behold! You return to Orgrimmar, unlock it, and are surprised with a rare BoE. Obviously, the drop rates from the chests would be low, but that occasional worth drop as you stated make it all worthwhile.

Soooo, almost like war mode in BFA?

No thanks…

How is it like warmode in BFA? What is that about?

With treasure drops and people gunning for them.. And all of those loot crate ideas bring nothing of value to actual classic wow… Stop trolling

Those chests in BFA were pointless. The rewards meant nothing. How can you even compare it.

RedridgeGnoll wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Those chests in BFA were pointless. The rewards meant nothing. How can you even compare it.

To be honest Gnoll, I don't think you're looking for Classic. You aren't even looking for Classic+. You are looking for a new MMO. An MMO with treasure and boats and housing... I think there are probably some MMO's out there that might fulfill the things you are looking for. At this point, I wouldn't even be surprised if you started advocating for space cowboys in Classic. What exactly was your role in the development of Classic/Vanilla? I've heard you mention this a few times and I'll be honest, based on your posts, you do not seem like you would be able to follow a story board or maintain consistency to a proof of concept. Your ideas aren't bad, they are just CLEARLY not meant for Classic. At all... Not even a little bit.

Stfuppercut wrote: ↑

5 years ago

RedridgeGnoll wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Those chests in BFA were pointless. The rewards meant nothing. How can you even compare it.

To be honest Gnoll, I don't think you're looking for Classic. You aren't even looking for Classic+. You are looking for a new MMO. An MMO with treasure and boats and housing... I think there are probably some MMO's out there that might fulfill the things you are looking for. At this point, I wouldn't even be surprised if you started advocating for space cowboys in Classic. What exactly was your role in the development of Classic/Vanilla? I've heard you mention this a few times and I'll be honest, based on your posts, you do not seem like you would be able to follow a story board or maintain consistency to a proof of concept. Your ideas aren't bad, they are just CLEARLY not meant for Classic. At all... Not even a little bit.

Boats are pretty meme-worthy, and player housing is not a priority. The treasure hunt system is a much more developed idea. One of the best aspects of Classic is the open world. I understand why we have battlegrounds for example, but unfortunately too much instanced content can be at the expense of open world experiences. When battlegrounds are released, the rewards for World PvP are heavily diminished. The Treasure Hunt system adds new risk/reward element to World PvP. It gives players another reason to roam contested territory. The system also includes a PvP loot drop system which is pretty player friendly. These PvP loot drop systems are very popular nowadays if executed and handled properly.

RedridgeGnoll wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Boats are pretty meme-worthy, and player housing is not a priority. The treasure hunt system is a much more developed idea.

They were all your ideas / suggestions. I'm just riding the wave with you man. If your ideas are meme-worthy, its probably just best to keep them out of your post.

RedridgeGnoll wrote: ↑

5 years ago

One of the best aspects of Classic is the open world. I understand why we have battlegrounds for example, but unfortunately too much instanced content can be at the expense of open world experiences. When battlegrounds are released, the rewards for World PvP are heavily diminished. The Treasure Hunt system adds new risk/reward element to World PvP. It gives players another reason to roam contested territory. The system also includes a PvP loot drop system which is pretty player friendly. These PvP loot drop systems are very popular nowadays if executed and handled properly.

Sure. You realize that we will have phases where there are no battlegrounds right? Classic is about capturing the entire experience that was available. Part of that is with open world conflict which eventually evolves into a small PvP organized group environment in the form of battlegrounds. Battlegrounds offer a far more competitive atmosphere for PvP than open world. Classic has both. I like both. I dont need any more reasons to roam the open world. Consumable farming is reason enough. Now, if you were to advocate that we should break instance farming for consumables and gold like private servers have done so that players are more inclined to participate in the world, I could understand that idea. Your treasure chest idea has been implemented into retail in various forms and has failed. The idea simply does not work in Classic. I'm sure you have experience in the development world as a vanilla WoW developer yourself, surely you can see how these ideas simply dont apply to Classic.

I'll give you an example. First person shooters are fun. This does not mean that being able to play hunter from a first person perspective while using your mouse to aim, would add value to Classic. It would cause a world of issues and simply would not fit the game. Classic is great. First person shooters are great. They are not great together. Treasure chests are great. Classic wow is great. Your idea of treasure chests don't match Classic. I'm concerned about investing too much time in this conversation though as you may just decide to write this idea off as another one of your "meme-worthy" ideas. Are you even serious about this?

Stfuppercut wrote: ↑

5 years ago

RedridgeGnoll wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Boats are pretty meme-worthy, and player housing is not a priority. The treasure hunt system is a much more developed idea.

They were all your ideas / suggestions. I'm just riding the wave with you man. If your ideas are meme-worthy, its probably just best to keep them out of your post.

RedridgeGnoll wrote: ↑

5 years ago

One of the best aspects of Classic is the open world. I understand why we have battlegrounds for example, but unfortunately too much instanced content can be at the expense of open world experiences. When battlegrounds are released, the rewards for World PvP are heavily diminished. The Treasure Hunt system adds new risk/reward element to World PvP. It gives players another reason to roam contested territory. The system also includes a PvP loot drop system which is pretty player friendly. These PvP loot drop systems are very popular nowadays if executed and handled properly.

Sure. You realize that we will have phases where there are no battlegrounds right? Classic is about capturing the entire experience that was available. Part of that is with open world conflict which eventually evolves into a small PvP organized group environment in the form of battlegrounds. Battlegrounds offer a far more competitive atmosphere for PvP than open world. Classic has both. I like both. I dont need any more reasons to roam the open world. Consumable farming is reason enough. Now, if you were to advocate that we should break instance farming for consumables and gold like private servers have done so that players are more inclined to participate in the world, I could understand that idea. Your treasure chest idea has been implemented into retail in various forms and has failed. The idea simply does not work in Classic. I'm sure you have experience in the development world as a vanilla WoW developer yourself, surely you can see how these ideas simply dont apply to Classic.

I'll give you an example. First person shooters are fun. This does not mean that being able to play hunter from a first person perspective while using your mouse to aim, would add value to Classic. It would cause a world of issues and simply would not fit the game. Classic is great. First person shooters are great. They are not great together. Treasure chests are great. Classic wow is great. Your idea of treasure chests don't match Classic. I'm concerned about investing too much time in this conversation though as you may just decide to write this idea off as another one of your "meme-worthy" ideas. Are you even serious about this?

I appreciate what you said. I too look forward to Phase 2, but also understand why Blizzard added battlegrounds eventually. I think 15 years ago it worked pretty well, eventhough it was a bit contoversial at the time. I am not really convinced Arathi Basin, WSG, and 1.12 AV will be as appealing nowadays as they were. I watched firsthand as beta testers and streamers got bored of Alterac Valley within a few hours. Battlegrounds have their advantages, but open world conflict is what distinguishes the MMORPG genre. The downside to battlegrounds is that they diminish World PvP, due to how honor rewards are distributed. Small scale PvP is very popular.

Think of all those PvP videos from back in Vanilla that players still watch today. It isn't 15v15 premade PvP, it is solo or small man World PvP for the most part. That is the content that gets the most eyeballs. Consider the streaming community, and how PvP games dominate viewership. Most players don't want to watch somebody grinding levels or raid bosses, they want to watch player vs player action, especially small man. They want to watch the more skilled individual players have the biggest impact possible. How does this relate to Classic WoW? Well PvP is a huge demographic, and that was even the case back in Vanilla. Comparing the Treasure Hunt System to what was implemented in Legion/Battle for Azeroth isn't that relative. While the hunting mechanic is similar, the reward system is not comparable. The rewards from the Legion/BFA chests were so insignificant, as such is the case with retail. The reward system is broken, and players don't feel like it is worth their time. Do I think that players would value unique drops in Classic WoW? Yes, I do. We all know how competitive and desirable rare items are in Classic, that is why you see so many players farming.

Let's be honest, the most efficient farming methods in Classic are in instanced dungeons. Is that a good thing? Debatable. The Treasure Hunt System would be an alternative. It would have gold sink mechanics, because whenever a locked chest is taken to a capital city to be unlocked, a gold fee must be paid. It is possible that players would be paying fees to unlock chests that were higher than the value of the chests themselves. That is part of the fun, it is like spinning a slot machine. The locked chests would be tradeable as well, so players could use them to barter or even sell on the auction house. You better believe that players would set a price on these chests for a chance at unique loot. Treasure chests already exist in Classic, they just don't have any high end items. The idea here is to add more of them, and change the loot tables. Also to add a loot mechanic to player vs player combat. Imagine you are running through Silithus to meet your group. All of a sudden you are attacked by an Orc Warrior, you kill him, then to your surprise discover he was carrying 5 locked treasure chests. That is the kind of thrill that Classic is missing. This greedy Orc Warrior figured he could increase his spoils and loot chests off an unsuspecting passerbyer, only to fall on his face and lose an afternoon of farming.

1. Rewards obtained in the open world (Unpredictability of open world)
2. PvP Loot (High stakes PvP)
3. RNG boxes with unique and rare rewards (Slot machine)

All of these mechanics to create more World PvP conflict.

RedridgeGnoll wrote: ↑

5 years ago

I appreciate what you said. I too look forward to Phase 2, but also understand why Blizzard added battlegrounds eventually. I think 15 years ago it worked pretty well, eventhough it was a bit contoversial at the time. I am not really convinced Arathi Basin, WSG, and 1.12 AV will be as appealing nowadays as they were. I watched firsthand as beta testers and streamers got bored of Alterac Valley within a few hours. Battlegrounds have their advantages, but open world conflict is what distinguishes the MMORPG genre. The downside to battlegrounds is that they diminish World PvP, due to how honor rewards are distributed. Small scale PvP is very popular.

So wouldnt a more appropriate way to address that concern be to advocate for increased PvP rewards when fighting in the world? Simply adjust honor ratings to give a higher value honor for world conflict. Perhaps players could drop a turn in token like AV that would trigger world events etc... Rather than using some arbitrary system like treasure chests to hopefully stimulate PvP? Why address this is some strange roundabout way that likely wont even increase world PvP? Just make world PvP more valuable by increasing its value. I'm not saying I agree by the way, simply that your treasure chest solution is a wildly strange solution to this incredibly simple issue.

RedridgeGnoll wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Think of all those PvP videos from back in Vanilla that players still watch today. It isn't 15v15 premade PvP, it is solo or small man World PvP for the most part. That is the content that gets the most eyeballs. Consider the streaming community, and how PvP games dominate viewership. Most players don't want to watch somebody grinding levels or raid bosses, they want to watch player vs player action, especially small man. They want to watch the more skilled individual players have the biggest impact possible. How does this relate to Classic WoW? Well PvP is a huge demographic, and that was even the case back in Vanilla. Comparing the Treasure Hunt System to what was implemented in Legion/Battle for Azeroth isn't that relative. While the hunting mechanic is similar, the reward system is not comparable. The rewards from the Legion/BFA chests were so insignificant, as such is the case with retail. The reward system is broken, and players don't feel like it is worth their time. Do I think that players would value unique drops in Classic WoW? Yes, I do. We all know how competitive and desirable rare items are in Classic, that is why you see so many players farming.

Considering the most viewed streams are typically the ones where players are either MASSIVELY popular or they are doing meaningful content like raids or organized PvP, I am inclined to disagree with you. Though I'm not very concerned with what draws attention on streams. Most of the premier PvP videos from Vanilla included a good mix of world PvP and BG's to be honest.

RedridgeGnoll wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Let's be honest, the most efficient farming methods in Classic are in instanced dungeons. Is that a good thing? Debatable.

I would say that this is not a good thing. I don't even see this as debatable. However, the competition level from two teams of equivalent player count can only be presented in the format of an instanced fight. So I also see BG's unique in this regard. They do have value.

RedridgeGnoll wrote: ↑

5 years ago

1. Rewards obtained in the open world (Unpredictability of open world)
2. PvP Loot (High stakes PvP)
3. RNG boxes with unique and rare rewards (Slot machine)

All of these mechanics to create more World PvP conflict.

You hope this will create more conflict. It likely wouldnt. As similar attempts have not worked in retail. But back to my point... If your issue with world PvP is that it isnt rewarding enough to encourage players to fight in the world post BG release, why not advocate that the value of world PvP is increased? Why build some half cocked idea about treasure chests that you hope will eventually lead to stimulating conflict? Honor. Per. Hour. If world PvP gave more honor per hour, players would participate in world PvP. Again, I'm not agreeing with you, I'm just offering a better solution to the issue you have with honor rewards.

Stfuppercut wrote: ↑

5 years ago

RedridgeGnoll wrote: ↑

5 years ago

I appreciate what you said. I too look forward to Phase 2, but also understand why Blizzard added battlegrounds eventually. I think 15 years ago it worked pretty well, eventhough it was a bit contoversial at the time. I am not really convinced Arathi Basin, WSG, and 1.12 AV will be as appealing nowadays as they were. I watched firsthand as beta testers and streamers got bored of Alterac Valley within a few hours. Battlegrounds have their advantages, but open world conflict is what distinguishes the MMORPG genre. The downside to battlegrounds is that they diminish World PvP, due to how honor rewards are distributed. Small scale PvP is very popular.

So wouldnt a more appropriate way to address that concern be to advocate for increased PvP rewards when fighting in the world? Simply adjust honor ratings to give a higher value honor for world conflict. Perhaps players could drop a turn in token like AV that would trigger world events etc... Rather than using some arbitrary system like treasure chests to hopefully stimulate PvP? Why address this is some strange roundabout way that likely wont even increase world PvP? Just make world PvP more valuable by increasing its value. I'm not saying I agree by the way, simply that your treasure chest solution is a wildly strange solution to this incredibly simple issue.

RedridgeGnoll wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Think of all those PvP videos from back in Vanilla that players still watch today. It isn't 15v15 premade PvP, it is solo or small man World PvP for the most part. That is the content that gets the most eyeballs. Consider the streaming community, and how PvP games dominate viewership. Most players don't want to watch somebody grinding levels or raid bosses, they want to watch player vs player action, especially small man. They want to watch the more skilled individual players have the biggest impact possible. How does this relate to Classic WoW? Well PvP is a huge demographic, and that was even the case back in Vanilla. Comparing the Treasure Hunt System to what was implemented in Legion/Battle for Azeroth isn't that relative. While the hunting mechanic is similar, the reward system is not comparable. The rewards from the Legion/BFA chests were so insignificant, as such is the case with retail. The reward system is broken, and players don't feel like it is worth their time. Do I think that players would value unique drops in Classic WoW? Yes, I do. We all know how competitive and desirable rare items are in Classic, that is why you see so many players farming.

Considering the most viewed streams are typically the ones where players are either MASSIVELY popular or they are doing meaningful content like raids or organized PvP, I am inclined to disagree with you. Though I'm not very concerned with what draws attention on streams. Most of the premier PvP videos from Vanilla included a good mix of world PvP and BG's to be honest.

RedridgeGnoll wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Let's be honest, the most efficient farming methods in Classic are in instanced dungeons. Is that a good thing? Debatable.

I would say that this is not a good thing. I don't even see this as debatable. However, the competition level from two teams of equivalent player count can only be presented in the format of an instanced fight. So I also see BG's unique in this regard. They do have value.

RedridgeGnoll wrote: ↑

5 years ago

1. Rewards obtained in the open world (Unpredictability of open world)
2. PvP Loot (High stakes PvP)
3. RNG boxes with unique and rare rewards (Slot machine)

All of these mechanics to create more World PvP conflict.

You hope this will create more conflict. It likely wouldnt. As similar attempts have not worked in retail. But back to my point... If your issue with world PvP is that it isnt rewarding enough to encourage players to fight in the world post BG release, why not advocate that the value of world PvP is increased? Why build some half cocked idea about treasure chests that you hope will eventually lead to stimulating conflict? Honor. Per. Hour. If world PvP gave more honor per hour, players would participate in world PvP. Again, I'm not agreeing with you, I'm just offering a better solution to the issue you have with honor rewards.

It is so true, the honor gains are too low in world pvp, so that when battlegrounds are released everyone just queues for them instead. We are getting crossrealm battlegrounds which means players will be able to join more bgs and likely do less world pvp. Blizzard should have increased honor from player kills a lot more. They actually increased it towards the end of Vanilla, but it wasn't nearly enough. Even if they raised the honor from player kills, most PvPers would still just queue for Battlegrounds. You can't really compare this new system being proposed to what is available on Retail. You have to encourage players to be in the zones. Even if you increase honor from player kills, that doesn't mean that players will show up. The chests are just an added incentive to get more players roaming contested zones.

You have to also consider the loot mechanic. There is very little risk/reward in Classic WoW PvP. You die and just respawn at the graveyard. This new system raises the stakes. Looting other players in PvP is something that will change the dynamic of PvP.