I never got the chance to play AV back in vanilla, but I did get some chances to play on a PS back in 2008/9.

However, after watching the current streaming event, it seems as if the actual intention of it has been skipped over? Sides just seem to get into 2 trains and avoid each other in the middle as they zerg their way into the boss room and kill the leader.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a whole intention over fighting to capture control points which give different boons? I recall being told something about lower levels needing to actually farm some of the mobs in the area for resources that somehow helped the war effort.

is there anyway to get around this, or is it an inherent thing about AV at the moment? I remember playing WS a lot back in WotLK. I can vividly remember us breaking up into groups to do the smaller objectives in the area, such as grabbing tanks, or securing areas.

Is there any way for AV to be more than just a zerg? I was watching the Asmongold stream yesterday and he mentioned that the best time to play AV was just before the expansion pack released. In that case, the mobs were levelled up and it meant players had to actually fight around them.

(However, I might have just watched/read a couple of bad, unrepresented).

While there's a few people queueing for BG's that want to enjoy what AV as a battleground actually has to offer, a majority of people are going to be grinding for whatever reward they're set on, be it a pvp rank or reputation reward. And when you're grinding, the keyword is efficiency. The amount gained for objectives is tiny vs what you get for a win, so getting wins asap is the real objective. And it's the objective for both sides, hence the two trains waving at each other as they pass.

It's pretty easy to stop it from being a train: just stop and defend at a chokepoint.

Did it all the time even on pservers and it's lots of fun.

This is the meta. The top 5% or so of players will be concerned with the meta. Unfortunately/fortunately their actions will influence everyone else and the meta will impact the server. You will find yourself doing the same or being yelled at in chat. Either way, play how you want to play. If you want to derail those trains, simply back cap a flag or two and cause a turtle. You will become a social outcast, but if that is how you want to have fun, I encourage it! I typically celebrate getting exalted with AV by Qing for an extra few BG's and backcapping.

How do you stop it? Changes. You would need to make changes. And thus, the community will squirm if you mention that it should be changed, despite the fact that it would make the BG better.

The most obvious solution would be to increase the power of the NPC's. Add top level ranged NPC's that can not be kited or CC'd above the leaders at each keep. These ranged NPC's would only be despawned on tower caps. Create an attic/loft above the leaders and line it with elite archers. Numerous solutions could be implemented, it would be a very easy fix.

The balance here is between PvE and PvP. The more changes you make to validate the PvE content, the less the BG is a PvP engagement and the more it becomes a PvE encounter. With the current rendition we will be receiving, this is a PvE race.

IMO the best way to stop the factions from ignoring each other would be to designate one the attacker and the other the defender.

And balance the damn map while they're at it.

I think you will see a mixed bag. You will get some more coordinated games that are rush jobs, then I think you will get some less organised games with turtling and defending. I am happy with whatever happens really, as long as every game isn't either rushed or turtles, but a bit of variety. Time spent PvPing in field of strife could be good fun!

Certainly make the npcs stronger, like impossible to take out the boss if it has the adds in the room.

Selexin wrote: ↑

5 years ago

I think you will see a mixed bag. You will get some more coordinated games that are rush jobs, then I think you will get some less organised games with turtling and defending. I am happy with whatever happens really, as long as every game isn't either rushed or turtles, but a bit of variety. Time spent PvPing in field of strife could be good fun!

THIS! I want a mixed bag of AV's. I really hope that the meta of private will not come over to Classic in full force... Though the influence of content creators may cause exactly that. I know that on private, as soon as a team begins to lose or a turtle is starting, both teams start /afking out. The honor per hour is simply higher when you take the deserter debuff and join another quick win/loss.

godddd its impossible to actually organize a BG unless youre going in with your guild or some kind of premade. even on private servers. you can yell instructions at people all you like but they'll never listen. i'm one of those people, just take one look at the map and see everyone not even doing what theyre supposed to be doing, fighting on roads, entire team at one base while the others get taken, doing dumb shit that you tell them not to (DONT CAP SNOWFALL GY). its so frustrating ugh.
AV has always been one of my favourites and i wish people would actually do the other objectives like summoning the other big bosses and stuff like that. but sadly like it's already been said, people just care about getting their marks and honour and winning the bg. kind of a pity.

d3aths wrote: ↑

5 years ago

godddd its impossible to actually organize a BG unless youre going in with your guild or some kind of premade. even on private servers. you can yell instructions at people all you like but they'll never listen.

AV has always been one of my favourites and i wish people would actually do the other objectives like summoning the other big bosses and stuff like that. but sadly like it's already been said, people just care about getting their marks and honour and winning the bg. kind of a pity.

Its weird right... I mean, I miss AV in retail vanilla. It was awesome! The long matches with that were back and forth for hours upon hours (sometimes days). But its like any sort of advancement in the meta. We cannot unlearn what we know. In a competitive environment, players will likely make choices that increase their odds of winning; why wouldn't they? In AV, that means getting into a train and racing past the opposing team. Expecting players to fight in the middle of the field of strife or to form an attack line and repeatedly run into eachother is unlikely and a bit naive. It just wont happen these days. This goes for any other part of the game that the meta effects. People will choose the top performing specs and gear... Most people wont intentionally make decisions to damage their own chances of winning in any environment.

Linguine wrote: ↑

5 years ago

It's pretty easy to stop it from being a train: just stop and defend at a chokepoint.

Did it all the time even on pservers and it's lots of fun.

Or the cardinal sin in the eyes of the AV-Speed-PVE'ler: Recapturing a graveyard. Rogue/Mage can easily turn a BG around by retaking a single graveyard if there are insufficient defenders.

Does anyone remember logging out in an AV, only to log back in hours later in the same AV?

Jon Bloodspray wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Does anyone remember logging out in an AV, only to log back in hours later in the same AV?

This mostly depended on your server but was definitely the case on mine. A lot of low pop realms or realms with faction imbalance were notorious for this.

Stfuppercut wrote: ↑

5 years ago

You will find yourself doing the same or being yelled at in chat.

And rightfully so. The way AV is set up in 1.12 is that you get the most rep from rushing to the end and killing the bosses. There's hardly any PvE elements left so the Battlegrounds only purpose is honor/rep.

Because Blizzard also wont allow us to premade for the BG, then you cannot group up with likeminded individuals and have quick and efficient games. Because of this, I consider it sabotage and griefing when someone is intentionally prolonging the game, as the only thing that accomplish is to slow down the game and slow down the rate at which you gain and reputation and honor.

But thats 1.12 AV for you. Want to fight horde/alliance? Go do world PvP. As long as the option to premade doesnt exist, then you should actually work towards winning AV, and not just meme around in there not doing anything to help the game.

Thats my opinion at least.

Holyfrog wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Because Blizzard also wont allow us to premade for the BG, then you cannot group up with likeminded individuals and have quick and efficient games.

You can just solo queue with your friends at the same time, then enter the BG which pops for everyone. Clearly not the most efficient way, but it's how it was done for ages.

I’ve tried to push for Blizz to use the pre-1.10 AV, which had an increased number of mobs and made the train impossible.

Untortunately, the community is split over it, with many seeing it just as “that annoying BG that has awesome exalted rewards”.

If you can get 5-10 men before it starts and organise with them you can easily camp mid though. Most players won’t stop to fight so a few well placed aoes can cause true havoc. The dead will end up respawning in front of your own train and as thus pvp starts to happen.

I miss old AV.

I cant wait to bottleneck at towerpoint and upset the ones who are there to just zerg. Imma do me.