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aeh wrote:
3 months ago
On Northdale we have done 1-60 + First MC Clear in like 8-9 days after release if I remember correctly!
Sure, a private server. But gl doing that in Classic.
No dynamic spawning, different resistance values and drops etc..
On topic, I do think a lot of people haven't realized how used they are to private servers.

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Driath wrote:
3 months ago
Sure, a private server. But gl doing that in Classic.
No dynamic spawning, different resistance values and drops etc..
On topic, I do think a lot of people haven't realized how used they are to private servers.
I think you will be surprised about how soon it will be cleared, private servers might be a bit off on exact numbers but it would need to be off by miles to slow hardcore guilds down with days

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I don't see any arguments for why Classic will have such massively much faster leveling times than vanilla did. Powerlevelers back then sure did their darnest well enough. I just don't see how people would suddenly do everything days faster than back then, the game hasn't changed and noone's been able to play a 100% accurate version to get a good idea since then. Sure people in general will be faster, but people were optimizing leveling speeds and nolifing too back then. Nothing I've seen anywhere tells me anything else than 'people can do it faster on private servers' and after leveling you've got at least a barebones gear farm, attunements and rep farm to do before you're clearing MC. It all takes time. Sure you can get 40 hunters to 60 in 4-5 days but gl clearing MC with that.

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Driath wrote:
3 months ago
Sure you can get 40 hunters to 60 in 4-5 days but gl clearing MC with that.
You could get all classes up in within a week probably, and it should not take long to get attunements and gear up. I don't think raid content will last more than max 1-2 days for hardcore guilds.

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I mean, I understand what you're trying to say mate, but 「you could probably..within a week」 + 「it should not take long..」 -> 「I don't think more than max 1-2days..」 isn't really a very convincing argument.
Do you have any data to suggest all classes can be done within 7 days, spread over 40 people leveling at the same time in the same zones on the same server? (Mind you at least some of those 40 will need sleep/food/toilet breaks at some point unless we're talking 120 people account sharing)
Do you have any data for the amount of time needed from from dinging 60 to entering MC?
Do you have any data on minimum gear requirements to kill all bosses?
Do you have any data on the amount of time needed beyond this to farm the required rep to even summon Majordomo?

I think it's totally fair enough to have your own idea about how fast it'll go, but you are dismissing my thoughts on the matter without saying anything beyond a very general sort of 「because I think so」. I think that's a little unfair, can't really discuss that very well. And to be honest, not calling you out in particular or anything here mate, there's a trend among certain private server people to argue the speedy clears in this manner lately. It wouldn't hurt to bring a little more real arguments to the table, don't you think? Surely this conviction is based on more than gut-feeling right?

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So, the old powerlevelers did their thing good. But still the way you level has changed in the last few years.
And I have to question why you think the private server experience is so totally different from the "original" Classic.

I played Classic 5 characters at level 60 and I'm pretty sure I know the old content very well.
And all the private servers are almost identical when it comes to questing and leveling.

I assume that the first guild will clear MC in the first week or at MAXIMUM two days after reset.
I'll refer to this post later.

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https://forum.elysium-project.org/topic ... integrity/

Literally my first search, knowing it is not blizzlike it is the closest thing we have and our only reference (private server data).
I am not dismissing thoughts or and am mostly using information that is based upon private servers.

And leveling in Classic will most likely be easier in the first levels due to sharding
But agreed, we cannot truly know until it releases and honestly I do not care.. It will take me months to even get to 60 with my schedule.

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aeh wrote:
3 months ago
So, the old powerlevelers did their thing good. But still the way you level has changed in the last few years.
And I have to question why you think the private server experience is so totally different from the "original" Classic.

I played Classic 5 characters at level 60 and I'm pretty sure I know the old content very well.
And all the private servers are almost identical when it comes to questing and leveling.

I assume that the first guild will clear MC in the first week or at MAXIMUM two days after reset.
I'll refer to this post later.
I think it is different from what things I see and hear. I'm basically just sceptical. I would be happy to be proven wrong.
I'm quite interested in how leveling has changed in the last few years. Would you mind telling me a little more about that?
I also leveled quite a lot of chars in vanilla, but never got under 5 days. I would love to be told of the proper ways of doing it these days. Planning to level lots of chars after all!

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I totally expect MC to be cleared within the 2nd week. Even though I never played Vanilla (official or private) I know how passionate private server folks are about recreating a blizzlike experience. If people have been spending over a decade finetuning vanilla and are able to clear MC within <10 days I believe it wont be far off in Classic.

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Driath wrote:
3 months ago
aeh wrote:
3 months ago
So, the old powerlevelers did their thing good. But still the way you level has changed in the last few years.
And I have to question why you think the private server experience is so totally different from the "original" Classic.

I played Classic 5 characters at level 60 and I'm pretty sure I know the old content very well.
And all the private servers are almost identical when it comes to questing and leveling.

I assume that the first guild will clear MC in the first week or at MAXIMUM two days after reset.
I'll refer to this post later.
I think it is different from what things I see and hear. I'm basically just sceptical. I would be happy to be proven wrong.
I'm quite interested in how leveling has changed in the last few years. Would you mind telling me a little more about that?
I also leveled quite a lot of chars in vanilla, but never got under 5 days. I would love to be told of the proper ways of doing it these days. Planning to level lots of chars after all!
Take a look into the Speedrunning thread, there are some Videos :)!

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Sequoioideae wrote:
3 months ago
  • soloing dungeons for gold farming (assuming your 60, raid eqqipped and the dungeon level is over 35), this was not a thing and farming in DM/Mauraudon will not happen
  • Meeting Stones/Innkeepers being able to teleport you
  • rushing raides, like mc, no it wont be cleared in a week like on pservers
Soloing dungeons was a thing in vanilla and will be again. Solo Mara as Hunter was a run we often did to get anyone the https://classic.wowhead.com/item=17713/blackstone-ring.
On the other hand, you are probably right that DME lasher farm won't work the same as on lights hope servers.

Meeting stone port was a change in 2.00 something in the pre TBC patch.

Speedclearing raids will be a thing on every raid level. I don't think many guilds can run week 1 MC, but week 2 MC & Ony will be done often enough to call it doable.

All other Raids will be cleared in a couple of hours after the patch hits, because you have enough time to prepare and get all world buffs and consumes you need. Tactics are common knowledge in the hardcore guild environment so you just have to wait for the patch.

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Driath wrote:
3 months ago
aeh wrote:
3 months ago
So, the old powerlevelers did their thing good. But still the way you level has changed in the last few years.
And I have to question why you think the private server experience is so totally different from the "original" Classic.

I played Classic 5 characters at level 60 and I'm pretty sure I know the old content very well.
And all the private servers are almost identical when it comes to questing and leveling.

I assume that the first guild will clear MC in the first week or at MAXIMUM two days after reset.
I'll refer to this post later.
I think it is different from what things I see and hear. I'm basically just sceptical. I would be happy to be proven wrong.
I'm quite interested in how leveling has changed in the last few years. Would you mind telling me a little more about that?
I also leveled quite a lot of chars in vanilla, but never got under 5 days. I would love to be told of the proper ways of doing it these days. Planning to level lots of chars after all!
I was skeptical too. Then I played private... Blizz-like private servers are VERY accurate. Are they 100%? No. Are some values off? Certainly... But why does that mean that private servers are easier...? People like to insinuate that the values account for why content is being cleared so fast... Its just as reasonable to assume that the values are making the content more challenging. Look, I wont say that private servers are a 100% clone of retail vanilla, but without progressive itemization in Classic, the private servers may have actually been a lot more challenging than what you will face in Classic. Im just offering a talking point to highlight the fact that people assume extrapolated data automatically indicates that the content is easier, when in fact it could be more challenge. Regardless, as has been said before, content is being cleared with SUCH ease, the game would need to be 10-20% more challenging to put a dent in these speed runs and early clears. I know, I know, thats CRAZY to think about given how hard this content appeared to be in retail vanilla, but when both of us stopped playing over 10 years ago, these private guys didnt and that meta continued to evolve. The private experience is very, very, relevant... This is why professional teams like Method are already recruiting players from the private server community.

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Driath wrote:
3 months ago
I don't see any arguments for why Classic will have such massively much faster leveling times than vanilla did. Powerlevelers back then sure did their darnest well enough. I just don't see how people would suddenly do everything days faster than back then, the game hasn't changed and noone's been able to play a 100% accurate version to get a good idea since then. Sure people in general will be faster, but people were optimizing leveling speeds and nolifing too back then. Nothing I've seen anywhere tells me anything else than 'people can do it faster on private servers' and after leveling you've got at least a barebones gear farm, attunements and rep farm to do before you're clearing MC. It all takes time. Sure you can get 40 hunters to 60 in 4-5 days but gl clearing MC with that.
Rofl..

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Stfuppercut wrote:
3 months ago
I was skeptical too. Then I played private... Blizz-like private servers are VERY accurate. Are they 100%? No. Are some values off? Certainly... But why does that mean that private servers are easier...? People like to insinuate that the values account for why content is being cleared so fast... Its just as reasonable to assume that the values are making the content more challenging. Look, I wont say that private servers are a 100% clone of retail vanilla, but without progressive itemization in Classic, the private servers may have actually been a lot more challenging than what you will face in Classic. Im just offering a talking point to highlight the fact that people assume extrapolated data automatically indicates that the content is easier, when in fact it could be more challenge. Regardless, as has been said before, content is being cleared with SUCH ease, the game would need to be 10-20% more challenging to put a dent in these speed runs and early clears. I know, I know, thats CRAZY to think about given how hard this content appeared to be in retail vanilla, but when both of us stopped playing over 10 years ago, these private guys didnt and that meta continued to evolve. The private experience is very, very, relevant... This is why professional teams like Method are already recruiting players from the private server community.
I completely agree with you that the servers are generally very accurate. I also completely agree with you that the private experience is interesting and relevant. I do not at all think that vanilla leveling is hard, or that MC is hard, or getting ready to clear MC is hard, or anything like that. I just think it takes a long time. Of course, like I said in my earlier post, in general people will definitely level faster, because the content is ancient and everyone knows it much better than back then. Speedlevelers will likely in general be faster, because they have had more time to practice.
But I am not convinced that people will breaking the old speed leveling record by several days immediately once the servers open up. Maybe some streamer will have hundreds of people doing whatever they can (as lowbies eventually mind you) to help him, and he might then hit like the 3day limit or something. But that's already a more than 35% reduced time from the fastest ever done in vanilla. And if you're doing that 40 people those super hot grinding spots are going to dry up a little faster.
So that's why I'm sceptical. As far as I was informed (and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) the super fast MC clears were done on servers with e.g. dynamic spawns (which speeds up leveling a lot) and with different resistance values because noone has any real clue how Blizzard actually used to do that (which makes clearing MC faster). I'll happily eat my words if it turns out I'm totally wrong. It's not like I have any problem with the idea of MC being cleared the first week, by all means go ahead. I just find it unlikely. Now, the 2nd week? Sure, the world first clear wouldn't surprise me, I don't see that as technically impossible. Never said that either. But there's a world of difference between the first reset of 7 days and then a day or two later. Now in general, I don't think people will be clearing MC in the 2nd week either. In general. But the world first? Sure, world first people are crazy enough, that could probably happen. The first week though? I'll believe it when I see it. That's all I'm saying.

Btw Jpy, if there's something particular about what I think or what I'm writing, do feel free comment on it, or indeed to tear my argument apart and show me how wrong I am. I think it's great that people come into this thread and lecture me about how the Vanilla WoW leveling and raiding scene has changed due to private server players, I'm quite happy to be learning these new things so different from the image I had of private servers from my personal experience and from what other people tell me. And you have quite a bit of a presence in the speed leveling thread which I have been following with great interest. Quoting my entire post and then replying with *rofl..* however is nothing but spamming tbh.

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IronBrutzler wrote:
3 months ago
That is wrong. You are able to solo those dungeons. Not all bosses and not all trash but there are enough guides even from Vanilla. Same with the ZG Mage Farm
and why wasnt that a thing back then? right, because it wasnt doable. there is 0 evidence that you could do that in vanilla, also i cannot recall a single moment where i witnessed it.
C4N wrote:
3 months ago
Ok... I'll stop with the fact shower, I think the message is clear enough.
these are not facts, these are circumstantial evidence. as long you cant proof the origin (that these arent recorded on pservers, a timestamp is not sufficant), which you cant, this proofes nothing.

Escalotes wrote:
3 months ago
DM solo farming is absolutely feasable, some groups that aren't AOE classes will do it as 3's, but it'll get done.
no
Escalotes wrote:
3 months ago
Meeting stones helped you find a group, but they weren't very good at it. They were like a primitive LFD tool.
it was more like, lets meet at the meeting stone, a point of orientation. nothing more.

also thank you @@Driath. i totaly agree with you

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The good thing about this discussion is that a) it doesnt matter and b) we will definitely see how it turns out.
That being said, I can understand why one would be sceptical, even though I disagree. However the idea of "unless you have undesputable proof you are wrong and I am right" doesnt seem like one I would like to engage with.

My 2 cents

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Sequoioideae wrote:
3 months ago
IronBrutzler wrote: ↑1 day ago
That is wrong. You are able to solo those dungeons. Not all bosses and not all trash but there are enough guides even from Vanilla. Same with the ZG Mage Farm
and why wasnt that a thing back then? right, because it wasnt doable. there is 0 evidence that you could do that in vanilla, also i cannot recall a single moment where i witnessed it.
http://www.wow-pro.com/wowpro_archive/g ... ming_guide

Here is proof!

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Samaraner wrote:
3 months ago
However the idea of "unless you have undesputable proof you are wrong and I am right" doesnt seem like one I would like to engage with.
Agreed..
The best evidence we have are private servers that are blizzlike, and most of the things possible there should be possible in Classic. But luckily it should not take long for Classic to release, so we will know for certain soon enough! :mrgreen:

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Samaraner wrote:
3 months ago
The good thing about this discussion is that a) it doesnt matter and b) we will definitely see how it turns out.
That being said, I can understand why one would be sceptical, even though I disagree. However the idea of "unless you have undesputable proof you are wrong and I am right" doesnt seem like one I would like to engage with.

My 2 cents
I completely agree with this :)
And yeah, can't wait for it to finally come out so we can get our hands on it!

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Samaraner wrote:
3 months ago
However the idea of "unless you have undesputable proof you are wrong and I am right" doesnt seem like one I would like to engage with.
yes, because the deamon summoning didnt proof how wrong the collective memory was.
IronBrutzler wrote:
3 months ago
http://www.wow-pro.com/wowpro_archive/g ... ming_guide

Here is proof!
thank you

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Sequoioideae wrote:
3 months ago
Escalotes wrote:
3 months ago
DM solo farming is absolutely feasable, some groups that aren't AOE classes will do it as 3's, but it'll get done.
no
Aside from how compelling your argument is, do you have any other proof that lasher farming didn't exist? People have already linked examples of it in this thread.

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I love that this argument will have a quantifiable answer in the future.

I do not love how much proof is being used when it should be prove.

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teebling wrote:
3 months ago
Sequoioideae wrote:
3 months ago
soloing dungeons for gold farming (assuming your 60, raid eqqipped and the dungeon level is over 35), this was not a thing and farming in DM/Mauraudon will not happen
I think that some DM farm won't be possible. For example, soloing the whole dungeon as a hunter by abusing feign death and then kiting King/Cho at the end is very unlikely to be possible in Classic. Lashers AOE might be good, but then again the loot tables and stats are different on private servers to the authentic 1.12 so again this has to be taken into consideration.

However, Maraudon farm solo as a hunter will surely still be possible... I don't see why people think otherwise seeing as the only requirement is that you are high enough level to solo it, right?
We had hunters in our guild in vanilla that would solo DM, so I don't believe this is a pserver creation, and thus, I believe it'll be done again in classic.

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