Both of you have the same concerns and outlook I do. To caveat; the old servers, before sharing, if you were a toxic twatwaffle - you had to deal with it. You wouldnt get into a good guild, get into good PVP farm teams, or just have freedom of maneuver throughout your server. .Cletus wrote: ↑5 years agoTHIS. The feeling of the game will be different with a new generation/mentality coming to the game. My only hope is that the in-game community will police itself the way it use to and that players who feel it is their duty to ruin the game for others will be cast out and blacklisted. My initial thoughts on this were that toxic players will just leave the game when they find it not to their liking but as we all know there are those out there who love to wallow in misery and would rather hang around and troll or conduct guild-griefing operations and take pleasure in being despised by their own faction.
The loss of that critical element is prevalent in any game nowadays that does not have a dedicated social structure.
Sure there will always be assholes. But there is that social capital that we can squander endlessly because we rarely ever see the same players twice. (Outside of guilds)
Bringing back a smaller community should help to alleviate this concern, with time. It will take a little while and there will be a curve for sure. But that's my 2 cents on the matter.
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You can thank streamers and their culture for both of those.
Huh? Layering was a tool bought in to deal with release day traffic, not streamers. As far as I am aware they intend to phase out layering as less people are in the leveling zones.
Also let's not act like streamers are the root cause of toxicity within the Vanilla community. This is oversimplification of a larger issue.
I agree. I think some streamers attract more toxic fanbase than others, and blanket blaming them for the toxic WoW community is a massive oversimplification. There were plenty of toxic players well before streaming was popular.
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Streamers. I think the smaller ones have great communities. But for some reason, the lust for money and greed feeds toxic behavior.
Member of -Black Omen- on Shadow Council (Tyreh) from TBC until Cataclysm
Just gotta keep your fingers crossed that they leaveCletus wrote: ↑5 years agoTHIS. The feeling of the game will be different with a new generation/mentality coming to the game. My only hope is that the in-game community will police itself the way it use to and that players who feel it is their duty to ruin the game for others will be cast out and blacklisted. My initial thoughts on this were that toxic players will just leave the game when they find it not to their liking but as we all know there are those out there who love to wallow in misery and would rather hang around and troll or conduct guild-griefing operations and take pleasure in being despised by their own faction.
I feel like with Classic WoW being such a community driven game, with (almost) every instance of progression requiring co-operation, it'll be a bit different on the forums and subreddit compared to in game. Even those toxic about the game will (hopefully) need to keep their rep clean on the server to continue to play the game in any meaningful manner, wallowing in their own misery or not.
This might just be my optimism speaking though.
Edit; Just saw Dolamites' post, he said it better than I.
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As for the talk on toxicity, i think WoW Classic is a really unique creature. it's not a 'new' game, its going to start with a huge influx of people like us that are coming back with a very specific experience in mind. We remember the good days and we're trying to have them again. But we're older now and (hopefully) more mature. i agree wholeheartedly with the notion of "social capital" that toxic people squander and get themselves blacklisted. that's true, and with all the out-of-game social media we have, toxic people can be put under the microscope more than ever before. but that's already been mentioned, and that's not my point.
I think the real backbone of Classic's community is going to be the 'old guard'. People like us that dont have time for all the toxic BS. we just want to have fun and enjoy our vanilla. we're the kind of people that will probably be playing classic for years to come, while most of the younger/newer crowd will get bored at some point and leave. some of them will hit the 40+ leveling grind and tap out. others will act like jerks and find themselves not getting to participate. others still will probably play until the next retail expansion comes out, then they'll drop vanilla to start the new expansion drama all over again.
(ie: this expansion is going to be great. its fixing all of the problems. all hail the new expansion. **new expansion releases** this expansion is nothing but problems, we hate it. **major patch** this has fixed some of the problems, but this expansion still sucks. **another major patch** okay, this expansion isnt terrible anymore. **next expansion gets announced** this expansion is going to be great. its fixing all the problems. all hail the new expansion....etc)
between streamers, their rabid fanbases, and impatient retail players, it'll be a rough launch. it'll take some time before that 'social capital' really starts biting some people in the ass. but the farther we get into Classic, the more these people will drop off. leaving a purer experience for the rest of us. sure, people will complain about server population, but i'd rather have a smaller server with dedicated, cool people over a bloated server filled with terrible players that just take up space. besides, a "small" official blizz server isnt going to be the same kind of "small" a lot of us experienced on private vanilla servers. official blizz "small" is still pretty dang big.
I think the community and blizzard need to be OK with realm consolidations. If a realm gets way too low, merge it with the realm that has the most similar econ. and progression. Its not perfect, but way better than letting the realm dwindle and die.
Agreed, I'm fine with that.
Layering...
But to be fair, it was explained pretty well by Tips Out in a recent video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NiJjB5eLr8
definitely the realms and if my names will be taken or not lmao. im a fan of using like darkish kind of words as character names and ill probably be rly disappointed if i dont get one of my faves.
and that the realm will go dead or there'll be faction imbalance.
i worry about how many oceanic realms there'll be, like on retail back when i played in mists, the most popular oceanic realm was imbalanced about 10% horde and 90% alliance, which forced me to faction change since it was pvp and dailies were impossible and it just felt like shit playing ally.
dont know if those count as being discussed or not but casually following the subreddit i havent seen anyone talking about realms yet. guess im being impatient though as blizz still havent announced them.
That the modern wow crowd will be really pc/sjw about everything, and really kill the vibe.
I fear the toxic elitists that will scare away casual players and newbies.
Casual players and newbies are the ones that actually reflects the classic vanilla experience the most since we all were newbies from the start.
They should be treasured, but i fear not everyone shares this opinion.
Understand that not all Elitists are toxic but there's still alot of them.
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How do you think/fear this scenario will play out? And what do you think would be ideal?IronBrutzler wrote: ↑5 years agoThat blizz fucks up the server merge and we will play only on 9k pop servers after the first wave.
For me ideal would be 3k pop cap. No over-bloated private server nonsense please.
That actually is my biggest fear.
Exactly. The gaming community have changed for the worse.
I'm most afraid that Blizzard will change too much. Layering is fortunately only in the first phase, which of course is really bad for Open PvP in the beginning, but I can live with that.
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Funny that I've seen way more people complaining about PC/SJW than I see PC/SJW people actually hassling people for how they talk. Don't get me wrong. They're insufferable people but I've yet to see a single community/game/anything actually RUINED by them. Maybe they can get downvote-brigade-happy on reddit but that's it.
: shrug :
See, I love this. I can't wait to be wandering through wherever, picking herbs, questing, etc, and having a new person run up and ask questions. I imagine us all as grizzled old vets from the Third War, trying to make our way through a world that's about to go mad once again.Ava wrote: ↑5 years agoI fear the toxic elitists that will scare away casual players and newbies.
Casual players and newbies are the ones that actually reflects the classic vanilla experience the most since we all were newbies from the start.
They should be treasured, but i fear not everyone shares this opinion.
Understand that not all Elitists are toxic but there's still alot of them.
I wouldn't necessarily say that it is undiscussed, however I'd have to go with the future of classic.
Obviously, Blizzard aren't just going to repeat release cycles for games (e.g. in 2 years time release BC) - that's not the actual point of classic. But, it'll be interesting to see where they go after the last phase.
Personally, I'm hoping they can pull of an Old School Runescape. Loads of new content added to the game, that doesn't upset the core principals and pillars of the classic game, and simply expands on it. It would be nice for them to take a leaf from Guild Wars 2'd horizontal progression system, so I'm not just replacing my gear every new patch; instead, I'll actually be improving my character in meaningful, tangible ways.
I don't know about you all, but WSG/AV and Raids can only keep me entertained for so long.
I fear that the elitism and gatekeeping willl be on a massive scale and people will bring their modern retail thinking about dungeons with them and trying to get a PUG will be fraught with having to list your gear / be inspected or you will be kicked from the group so they can still rush dungeons down in a few minutes. And not just the ones currently playing retail, but also the ones who quit WotLK or after that beat their chest about how bad gear score and LFD were.
Not sure how undiscussed that is, but it is my biggest concern.
I hadn't given that any thought...Mentari wrote: ↑5 years agoI fear that the elitism and gatekeeping willl be on a massive scale and people will bring their modern retail thinking about dungeons with them and trying to get a PUG will be fraught with having to list your gear / be inspected or you will be kicked from the group so they can still rush dungeons down in a few minutes. And not just the ones currently playing retail, but also the ones who quit WotLK or after that beat their chest about how bad gear score and LFD were.
Not sure how undiscussed that is, but it is my biggest concern.
Now you've mentioned it I'm kinda worried myself. Giving me gw2 fractal requirement flash backs...
If you haven't seen it. Its because you don't want to. It's very prevalent and has ruined many communities and games.pan0phobik wrote: ↑5 years agoFunny that I've seen way more people complaining about PC/SJW than I see PC/SJW people actually hassling people for how they talk. Don't get me wrong. They're insufferable people but I've yet to see a single community/game/anything actually RUINED by them. Maybe they can get downvote-brigade-happy on reddit but that's it.
: shrug :
I feel like I could say the same thing. Let's agree to disagree respectfully then.Helthos wrote: ↑5 years agoIf you haven't seen it. Its because you don't want to. It's very prevalent and has ruined many communities and games.pan0phobik wrote: ↑5 years agoFunny that I've seen way more people complaining about PC/SJW than I see PC/SJW people actually hassling people for how they talk. Don't get me wrong. They're insufferable people but I've yet to see a single community/game/anything actually RUINED by them. Maybe they can get downvote-brigade-happy on reddit but that's it.
: shrug :
My biggest undiscussed worry is the conversation that I've not yet had with my gf about how much time I will be spending in the computer room. 
