The real question is, how quickly can you get a Prot warrior up to level 60?

lol right? everyone in the guild start funneling every warrior boe drop you get to your tanks mailboxes.

Black Monarch wrote: ↑

5 years ago

The real question is, how quickly can you get a Prot warrior up to level 60?

Dungeon cleave teams will likely see warriors hitting 60 in about 3-4.5 days played at the very highest level. Average melee cleaves can see times of 4.5-5.5 days quite easily. Keeping in mind that as long as a level 60 is killing tagged mobs that are 48 or higher, the person who tagged them doesnt suffer any XP loss. So this means that at any point someone in the guild hits 60, they can easily turn around and start killing tags for the warrior for a quick power level assuming the warrior has hit level 48 at this point.

Holyfrog wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Obviously the content wont be tuned harder at the start of the game.

As happened in every release of the game? Starts out tuned high, and is slowly tuned down to open it up to the masses. No?

In this case though, they do seem to just be doing a copy/paste from their 1.12 client, so it will be easier if anything. 16 debuff slots, all classes fleshed out, talents improved and bosses fixed/tuned. It does appears as if Blizzard stance is more leaning toward an exact recreation of 1.12, rather than 'Preserving an authentic vanilla experience" which it will not feel like. Vanilla was hard when it was new, it will not be hard now.

Yes.. Because artificially buffing Vanilla content past the actual difficulty of 1.12 is even remotely comparable to later expansions nerfing content as the expansion progresses right?

All it would do is to cause a shitstorm of drama when players realize the content suddenly got nerfed. Blizzard is ofcourse not going to do anything like this. It's completely out of the realm of possibility.

Holyfrog wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Yes.. Because artificially buffing Vanilla content past the actual difficulty of 1.12 is even remotely comparable to later expansions nerfing content as the expansion progresses right?

I think he/she is referring more to the pseudo-nerfing of content (actually the buffing of players) as vanilla progressed from 1.01 to 1.12

Black Monarch wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Holyfrog wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Yes.. Because artificially buffing Vanilla content past the actual difficulty of 1.12 is even remotely comparable to later expansions nerfing content as the expansion progresses right?

I think he/she is referring more to the pseudo-nerfing of content (actually the buffing of players) as vanilla progressed from 1.01 to 1.12

Indeed, feel free to check out this link to the forums where someone took the time to go through patches 1.1 to 1.12 to show the buffs to players and nerfs to raids which made the content easier and easier (i.e. nerfed raid difficultly).

This is what I am referring to. Boss abilities tuned/reduced/fixed to make them easier. Players abilities/mechanics improved, making raids easier. @Stfuppercut and I have spoken about this quite a bit here in the forums. I am all for #nochanges, but that also includes no changes to the vanilla experience. All content could be tuned up for difficulty to provide a more 'vanilla' experience, and if after some time it is still too hard, they can of course tune it back down.

I don't know whether you want the easier raids to make Prot Paladin more viable? Or if you are just concerned with 1.12 #nochanges. Either way, we will get what Blizzard decide, not necessarily what some of us believe to be the right choice for gameplay experience.

The first guild to clear MC in the second week across all the servers should receive a Talisman of Binding Shard
Removed or not, it was once a part of classic.

Selexin wrote: ↑

5 years ago

I don't know whether you want the easier raids to make Prot Paladin more viable?

Blizzard is remaking 1.12. Artificially buffing the difficulty of the raids beyond the actual difficulty of 1.12 is completely unacceptable. You are never going to be able to buff Molten Core to the point where it's actually difficult for the people hitting 60 in the first weeks of the game. All you achieve is to devalue the effort of any guild that clear MC after they eventually nerf it back down to its original difficulty.

And please. I find it very disingenuous how you attempt to ascribe motive to my argument that you are perfectly aware I dont have. The protection Paladin spec was not mentioned here at all. The fact that you bring it up in an effort to make it seem like my argument is motivated by personal gain is highly manipulative.
Stick to what I actually say.

The only way you would get the authentic difficulty back would be to start with the original 1.1 talent trees and class mechanics as well as progressive itemization as authentic as possible. The actual encounters in MC saw very little changes throughout Vanilla's lifespan.

Besides, if someone bought the game late and hit 60 in patch 1.12, then the Classic experience will be authentic to their experience. Artificially increasing the difficulty of the content is actually making the game less authentic. Not more.

Holyfrog wrote: ↑

5 years ago

And please. I find it very disingenuous how you attempt to ascribe motive to my argument that you are perfectly aware I dont have. The protection Paladin spec was not mentioned here at all. The fact that you bring it up in an effort to make it seem like my argument is motivated by personal gain is highly manipulative.

I'm sorry if I offended you or in anyway made you feel as if I was trying to diminish your argument, I was merely trying to find some reasoning or motive behind your resistance to what would be a relatively harmless way to help recreate the authentic vanilla experience without changing the game on face value level (We're talking about changing what was hidden values for bosses that private servers couldn't even get right). I'm sure you will do just fine in MC in week 2 based on your Paladin knowledge, experience and 1.12 talents/gear. I know that in earlier patches Prot Paladin may have been less viable, and as such picking up the game at 1.12 with non-tuned bosses would make your entire WoW ethos more approachable. If Blizzard came out an said "We are buffing raid bosses by 20% for damage and health" that may have in impact on early game Prot Paladin viability, which in turn would have a direct negative impact on you - hence my asking if that was why you were against it.

Holyfrog wrote: ↑

5 years ago

The only way you would get the authentic difficulty back would be to start with the original 1.1 talent trees and class mechanics as well as progressive itemization as authentic as possible. The actual encounters in MC saw very little changes throughout Vanilla's lifespan.

Blizzard were never going to do that, it was much too much time, effort, risk and no real way to do it accurately. The easiest way is to just simply tune the raid bosses/trash slightly up to be able to provide that original difficulty factor without the insane ridiculously over complicated job of doing progressive talents/spells/bugs/nerfs/buffs/items etc. going patch 1.1 to 1.12. I know why they are doing 1.12 from day 1, it's really fucking easy for them and causes the least amount of arguments and work. The simplest way to provide that difficulty is by artificially increasing the enemy difficulty. They won't do it unfortunately, but it is something I think would have been a good way to maintain 1.12 #nochanges to player side of things, and authentic vanilla experience by increasing enemy difficulty. People have already complained that the beta was too easy, I don't see that changing on launch.

It will be a shame to have Rag down in 1-2 weeks, he was the longest raid final boss kill of the entire vanilla World of Warcraft (154 days). I'm certainly not saying he should survive for even a quarter of that time, but maybe 3-4 weeks before first Rag would be slightly more enjoyable. People know how to power level, people know how to BiS gear, people know the strats, people can coordinate and plan out the whole process of lvl 1 to Rag kill for an entire guild. It won't take long, but if he is killed in week 1 with < 40 players in blues and greens, it will somewhat diminish and tarnish Ragnaros' glory days. Also it will make the rest of us look like shit kickers when it takes us 4 months!

Great page here by Method which goes through the history of Vanilla Raids: https://www.method.gg/raid-history

Selexin wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Great page here by Method which goes through the history of Vanilla Raids: https://www.method.gg/raid-history

Check this out guys! This is actually a really good historical list of all world firsts with videos. Awesome snapshot of Vanilla raiding history. I'm not sure if anyone else had linked this previous but this should actually be a thread in an of itself. I would love to see a Classic column added next to this for contrast. Would be nice to see the days bosses were alive, the kill timers etc to see some really hard numbers to contrast both lists and compare the games.