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Jpy
5 months ago
Too slippery of a slope to start changing things (and this is a perfectly reasonable opinion as we’ve all seen what WoW has become..). As close to Vanilla as possible is my ideal server, if you have a problem with something you adjust not just change everything. The annoyances, long draw outleveling, and lack of all the extras is part of the mystique for me. Everyone has a different opinion to be fair but the whole point of them making Classic was to replicate not replace.
Lne
5 months ago
Faendor wrote:
5 months ago
The original idea was to bring vanilla experience, not vanilla +. This game was meant to be for the people who want to experience original wow. Now they want to bring to Classic even people from retail. These are totally different games with different audiences and they should not get mixed up together
(I dont mean that retail people shouldn't be encouraged to play Classic, quite the opposite rly, but at the same time you should not confuse those two titles). Once you allow Blizzard / Activision to add whatever they want, it will become a slippery slope to other deviations. Achievements are just a filler that brings nothing to the quality of gameplay. Even if you could personally turn it off, it would still be in there. I don't know man but I feel like I hate any Blizzard addition because of their aproach and philosophy behind it. Blizzard is NOT the company it used to be when they shipped original wow and people should realize that by now.
Slippery slopes is the logical fallacy most bandied about when there is no other logical basis for an opinion. It's not a good reason to form an opinion, though you frame it in about the most compelling way I've seen it framed on this subject.

That said, nothing will encourage or stop blizzard from adding crap/filler to classic if they want to so the slippery slope argument isn't a good reason to oppose this beyond opposing blizzard changing the game into the crap that retail is.

I realize blizzard is nothing like the company it used to be; however, I think that we as fans of classic need to encourage blizzard to give us our cake (classic wow) will somehow allowing blizzard to eat their cake too (some how monetize/make classic an attractive line item on a stock valuation).

Either way, I'm with you in hating blizzard's choices/direction in games ever since Diablo 3 came out.
Lne
5 months ago
Firelord wrote:
5 months ago

I'm not Faendor, but I can put my own view, which will probably not be any more agreeable.

One part is of course the preservation of the old days. A museum. Something that shows you "this is how the game was."

Which of course brings the argument that if it didn't exist in Vanilla, it shouldn't be in Classic. Which more or less brings me to my own view of the spirit of Vanilla. Just because you wanted something, it didn't mean you could have it. You were given the tools in this world, and that is what you had to work with. You didn't always have options upon options to turn on other options that were only visible for you.

It's more or less the idea of the game not adjusting itself to you, but you had to adjust yourself to the game. You did your best to survive the world and you didn't need options to look prettier, and neither did you need a list telling you what achievements were, you made your own achievements.

Whether the game will be released in 2019 or not does not matter, just because other games, or that current World of Warcraft has options, it does not mean Classic should have these options. If people can not stand it, or handle it, then perhaps the current game is where they should stay where all these options exist, and those who are up to tackle a world like Classic, can go for it, where the game is not catering to them.
That's fair enough, but the old days would be preserved regardless of whether the client side changes are opt in, so it's not too compelling of an argument to me; it mostly seems to side step the question of what's wrong with things that are opt in and that don't change the way the game works/plays:).

As for me I'll be perfectly happy if it comes out as a carbon copy of wow circa 2006, but I'd prefer any reasonable non-gameplay, non-social-dynamic changing changes that can happen that improve the chances of the game being a success both in terms of actual players and in terms of financials for the activision bean counters. My dream at this point is post naxx 40 man content that doesn't replace/invalidate the classic server so if classic can be more popular that is what I'm all for.
Firelord
5 months ago
Lne wrote:
5 months ago
I'm fine with achievements being not in the game, but to respond to Faendor, I think they could be implemented without harming classic in anyway provided they didn't provide any ingame reward other than perhaps titles. Giving people their own client side minigame to play doesn't hurt the vanilla experience, though I suppose some people might get lost chasing achievements and thereby not participate socially or in guild matters, but I think those people would be a exceedingly small minority to the point it's not worth being concerned about it.

I'll never understand people who hate anything being added to classic that would be optional to participate in and wouldn't effect the gameplay or social dynamics of the game. Achievements, toggle-able updated graphics, and transmog (that could be toggled off by viewers) are good examples of things that could enhance some people's classic experience while having no impact on the purist's experience.

I'm more on the purist side of things, but I also want classic to be as popular and as appealing as possible while remaining the same game and social dynamic. Other people viewing updated models or getting updated about an achievement doesn't bother me if I can turn it off.

Whats your logic in attacking these things ?
I'm not Faendor, but I can put my own view, which will probably not be any more agreeable.

One part is of course the preservation of the old days. A museum. Something that shows you "this is how the game was."

Which of course brings the argument that if it didn't exist in Vanilla, it shouldn't be in Classic. Which more or less brings me to my own view of the spirit of Vanilla. Just because you wanted something, it didn't mean you could have it. You were given the tools in this world, and that is what you had to work with. You didn't always have options upon options to turn on other options that were only visible for you.

It's more or less the idea of the game not adjusting itself to you, but you had to adjust yourself to the game. You did your best to survive the world and you didn't need options to look prettier, and neither did you need a list telling you what achievements were, you made your own achievements.

Whether the game will be released in 2019 or not does not matter, just because other games, or that current World of Warcraft has options, it does not mean Classic should have these options. If people can not stand it, or handle it, then perhaps the current game is where they should stay where all these options exist, and those who are up to tackle a world like Classic, can go for it, where the game is not catering to them.
Faendor
5 months ago
The original idea was to bring vanilla experience, not vanilla +. This game was meant to be for the people who want to experience original wow. Now they want to bring to Classic even people from retail. These are totally different games with different audiences and they should not get mixed up together
(I dont mean that retail people shouldn't be encouraged to play Classic, quite the opposite rly, but at the same time you should not confuse those two titles). Once you allow Blizzard / Activision to add whatever they want, it will become a slippery slope to other deviations. Achievements are just a filler that brings nothing to the quality of gameplay. Even if you could personally turn it off, it would still be in there. I don't know man but I feel like I hate any Blizzard addition because of their aproach and philosophy behind it. Blizzard is NOT the company it used to be when they shipped original wow and people should realize that by now.
Lne
5 months ago
I'm fine with achievements being not in the game, but to respond to Faendor, I think they could be implemented without harming classic in anyway provided they didn't provide any ingame reward other than perhaps titles. Giving people their own client side minigame to play doesn't hurt the vanilla experience, though I suppose some people might get lost chasing achievements and thereby not participate socially or in guild matters, but I think those people would be a exceedingly small minority to the point it's not worth being concerned about it.

I'll never understand people who hate anything being added to classic that would be optional to participate in and wouldn't effect the gameplay or social dynamics of the game. Achievements, toggle-able updated graphics, and transmog (that could be toggled off by viewers) are good examples of things that could enhance some people's classic experience while having no impact on the purist's experience.

I'm more on the purist side of things, but I also want classic to be as popular and as appealing as possible while remaining the same game and social dynamic. Other people viewing updated models or getting updated about an achievement doesn't bother me if I can turn it off.

Whats your logic in attacking these things ?
Faendor
5 months ago
I dont understand the logic behind defending retail achievment system.
teebling
5 months ago
Nostra wrote:
5 months ago
Without a doubt I agree with you, guys, it is a way to see the achievements, nothing more rewarding than having a title, an exalted reputation, or having the thunderfury equipped; but personally I had already adapted and I liked having them all described, organized and segmented in one section.

In addition, the way in which the system of achievements currently works has become a style of play for those players whose goal in the game is to have all possible points, why lose this type of players being a relatively simple addition to the game? I do not know if it's just me but I know a lot of people who are addicted to achievements. The so-called pokemon masters, catch them all.

I already see myself next year unconsciously pressing the keyboard shortcut (Y) several times.
Yeah I feel you on this - perhaps the classic armory, or a 3rd party site like this will implement a faux-achievements style thing which categorises these ‘achievements’ in a form similar to retail?

Personally its enough for me to see that Reputations window greened up!
Jpy
5 months ago
I hadn’t realized that Dire Maul would be available at launch. I think we’ll see a much quicker market rise than if it wasn’t available at launch.
Nostra
5 months ago
Without a doubt I agree with you, guys, it is a way to see the achievements, nothing more rewarding than having a title, an exalted reputation, or having the thunderfury equipped; but personally I had already adapted and I liked having them all described, organized and segmented in one section.

In addition, the way in which the system of achievements currently works has become a style of play for those players whose goal in the game is to have all possible points, why lose this type of players being a relatively simple addition to the game? I do not know if it's just me but I know a lot of people who are addicted to achievements. The so-called pokemon masters, catch them all.

I already see myself next year unconsciously pressing the keyboard shortcut (Y) several times.
Sequoioideae
5 months ago
teebling wrote:
5 months ago
Sequoioideae wrote:
5 months ago
The actual solution for this is personal loot, not loot trading.
Hey Sequoi welcome to the forums :smile:

What do you mean by personal loot?
thank you
Under personal loot the game chooses a number of players (based on group size) and awards them a random item for their spec, while everyone else receives an amount of gold specific to them. Mounts can also be won via this method from bosses that drop them. Like solo looting, the drops are retrieved by directly looting the corpse of the boss, with the chat logs showing who's won something. Loot from Personal Loot is tradeable to anyone for whom the item is an ilvl upgrade, as long as it is also not an ilvl upgrade for yourself.
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Loot#Personal_Loot
teebling
5 months ago
Nostra wrote:
5 months ago
teebling wrote:
7 months ago
[*]Achievements are not in Classic.
Awww... I would have loved to have achievements in classic.
For me Reputation will be kind of like achievements - after all you get titles and other rewards alongside the sheer satisfaction of reaching 999 exalted :)
Faendor
5 months ago
But you do have achievements there. Every little gear upgrade, talent point, quest or special class quest or dungeon completed and much more. All of these little milestones along the way feel like you have achieved something worthy. Simply because you have to earn it.
Nostra
5 months ago
teebling wrote:
7 months ago
[*]Achievements are not in Classic.
Awww... I would have loved to have achievements in classic.
teebling
5 months ago
Sequoioideae wrote:
5 months ago
The actual solution for this is personal loot, not loot trading.
Hey Sequoi welcome to the forums :smile:

What do you mean by personal loot?
Sequoioideae
5 months ago
The actual solution for this is personal loot, not loot trading.
Syturio
6 months ago
Tol0th wrote:
6 months ago
Faendor wrote:
7 months ago
Finesse wrote:
7 months ago
Love this attention to the small details!
At the same time, they announce the existence of loot trading in Classic...
What’s the big deal about this though? Why is loot trading so bad?
At first glance people may not see it.
I suggest you and everyone watch this video:

Tol0th
6 months ago
Faendor wrote:
7 months ago
Finesse wrote:
7 months ago
Love this attention to the small details!
At the same time, they announce the existence of loot trading in Classic...
What’s the big deal about this though? Why is loot trading so bad?
Faendor
7 months ago
Finesse wrote:
7 months ago
Love this attention to the small details!
At the same time, they announce the existence of loot trading in Classic...
Finesse
7 months ago
The team was able to use reference data to find models in Classic that were not correct, such as colors of lanterns. Purple was used as a color to recognize wrong model colors
Love this attention to the small details!
cable
7 months ago
Faendor wrote:
7 months ago
I meant having 16 instead of 8. The difficulty will be easier with 16 at launch making MC and Ony very simple
Right. You're correct. 8 debuffs is what's up during Mölten Cöre and Onyxia. I genuinely hope they don't screw it up with adding it up to 16 during that time.
teebling wrote:
7 months ago
cable wrote:
7 months ago
Regarding the itemization--they didn't really mention it. Only that high-end PvP rewards will come out with BWL as they're just as strong or even better according to them. That means no ranking at launch?
I guess... no battlegrounds either?
We don't know yet. They haven't mentioned it. Only what you mentioned regarding the PvP rewards.
Faendor
7 months ago
Loot trading...........................................................please no
teebling
7 months ago
cable wrote:
7 months ago
Regarding the itemization--they didn't really mention it. Only that high-end PvP rewards will come out with BWL as they're just as strong or even better according to them. That means no ranking at launch?
I guess... no battlegrounds either?
Brokenshield
7 months ago
Didn't see this, but I posted similar stuff under the pinned FAQ.
Faendor
7 months ago
I meant having 16 instead of 8. The difficulty will be easier with 16 at launch making MC and Ony very simple