Alterac Mountains
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4 months ago (1.13.2)
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Hi! Love the guide! I’m currently running 11/40/0 with 2/2 guardian, 2/2 enhancing totems, and 2h specialization simply for versatility. My guild is actually considering letting me tank some MC, and I was looking to get some feedback on what I should switch out of in order to get 3/3 elemental warding. I’m strongly considering taking the three talent points from 2h specialization and going 3/5 weapon mastery.

My reasoning behind keeping guardian totems is that I want to take as little damage as possible so that I am invited to tank again, I don’t foresee having threat issues because I will not be main tanking, and I also have Hand of Edward the Odd as my weapon, which is fast, hits relatively hard, and the proc will be used to induce even more threat (not to mention the increased spell dmg to es/fs due to the added int!). Thanks in advance!

Alterac Mountains
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4 months ago (1.13.2)
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I would go from 5/5 weapon mastery to 3/5*

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4 months ago (1.13.2)
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This is a truly excellent Guide. Many thanks. I did alot of Shammy tanking years ago and it was one of the single most fun experiences I've ever had. Glad to see word is out!

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4 months ago (1.13.2)
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Very good guide, I've used it numerous times to elaborate my own opinion on Shaman Tanking.

Right now I'm RL and MT in 3rd static of my guild in MC, 5/10. Going pretty well, my overall effective HP is combarable to warriors in my static.
Only real problem on most bosses is lack of "oh shi..." button while warriors have number of those.

Classic is all about experiments, after all.
Thanks for you guide and having unpopular opinion while using facts to your defense, not concepts.

   Perdition
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Tauren
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4 months ago (1.13.2)
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By the way, It would be really great if you could make a BIS phase gear w/o PVP gear, simply because it's much harder to get then most of raid epics. I see it on phase 2 and 3, but not on later ones.

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Badlands
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4 months ago (1.13.2)
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@TheGreatShambino For new shaman tank players looking to raid tank, I recommend incremental steps forwards, start with off-tanking on easy/quick bosses and progressively go for main-tanking. As far as talents, judging by what you said I am think this https://classicdb.ch/?talent#hiczZVi0dExut it's not too mechanically demanding or gear dependant. The moment you're more conformable with shaman raid tanking but need more threat, float the idea of having a resto shaman in the group to place down improved totems or possibly forgo a debuff slot to allow Stormstrike to be applied by another shaman in the raid.

I highly recommend getting Timeworn Mace from DM, it's the BiS weapon for defensive purposes for the majority of the game. If threat is needed, at any moment swap in a fast dagger, for example: Core Hound tooth. Hand of edward has a low proc rate and is nichely used for aoe tanking, which could be too mechanically taxing atm for you.

Feel free to ask me more questions! I'll also be starting my streaming debut next week and can answer questions with even more detail.

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Alterac Mountains
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4 months ago (1.13.2)
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So I did a little bit of research, and some math. It turns out that The Hand of Edward the odd has a ‘timer’ of once per minute. The way that is normalized by swing is through weapon speed, 1.6seconds, coming out to 2.667% proc chance per swing. But when we’re comparing the threat to the Majordomo dagger you mentioned the once per minute is more important. Both items have the same rockbiter threat modifier because they are the same speed. The dagger gets an additional 2.5 Dps/tps from the attack power, bringing the threat/per second up to about 53 tps, while Edward sits at 45 tps, without the proc. Now you convert the proc chance into what you can do with the instant cast every minute, and thus convert it to tps. In order to make up the 8 tps difference between the two weapons, all you need to do is heal yourself for 16hps, 16x60=960. Healing wave rank 8 more than does the trick, as it heals for 1040 to 1191, putting you just over the tps you’d generate using the dagger. However it will cost 440 mana each team

TLDR: the tps difference between Corehound Tooth and Edward the odd is 8 tps, you can make up that threat when using Edward the odd’s once per minute proc by using healing wave rank 8 in single target, adding 17.33 to 19.85 hps. Unreliable? Yes. However, for longer fights it opens the door to far more threat generation than that dagger while adding in more survivability on top.

Seeing how those heals compare to the 120 armor from timeworn mace would be interesting to looks at, but it entirely depends on How hard you are being hit and how fast, entirely subjective data.


Timer data in the 2nd comment https://classic.wowhead.com/item=2243/h ... d#comments

   teebling
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4 months ago (1.13.2)
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I'm actually very surprised you don't mention Eskhandar's Right Claw as a weapon in gear list.
I suppose its proc has a very good synergy with RB, because extra TPS doesnt descale with Haste.
If I get this weapon, I'll try to measure its PPM and added TPS.

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Badlands
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4 months ago (1.13.2)
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Perdition wrote:
4 months ago
This is a truly excellent Guide. Many thanks. I did alot of Shammy tanking years ago and it was one of the single most fun experiences I've ever had. Glad to see word is out!
Thank you for the support!

   Perdition
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3 months ago (1.13.2)
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TheGreatShambino wrote:
4 months ago
TLDR: the tps difference between Corehound Tooth and Edward the odd is 8 tps, you can make up that threat when using Edward the odd’s once per minute proc by using healing wave rank 8 in single target, adding 17.33 to 19.85 hps. Unreliable? Yes. However, for longer fights it opens the door to far more threat generation than that dagger while adding in more survivability on top.
Remember Healing Wave won't cause threat at max hp, you'd have to tell healers to stop healing so you can get a Healing Wave off and if you're lucky really lucky you'll heal for 100% of the damage you are missing (cuz of overhealing). And also if Healing Wave crits all of that extra healing is wasted and becomes overhealing. The only solution is to cast Healing Wave on a warlock who has life tapped his hp to low amounts, but this would not be survival focused but threat focused. However, it is still a negative. In this super rare scenario, the warlock would cause more damage from not life-tapping (cuz of CD) and their damage would significantly reduce the boss fight length, which outweighs the shaman threat gain over a boss fight length. Also, Hound tooth is still somewhat a defensive weapon (the stam), if we truly wanted to compare threat we'd use Perdition's Blade or similar. Don't get me wrong I love Edward, it's a core weapon within aoe threat generation. If you're interested, I am answering questions if you care to join.

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3 months ago (1.13.2)
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So I still have my elemental shaman, a troll. I've not played in a couple months because of RL stuff. But damn it if shaman tank has always interested me but I can't envision end-game tanking with my skinny ass troll.

I tanked WC, BFD, and SM Library while leveling, and it was super fun. But I feel like a troll tanking, even as a warrior, feels not quite right.

Gensei - Shaman
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Alterac Mountains
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3 months ago (1.13.2)
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In my opinion, if someone can’t time an instant cast self heal with their next tick of incoming damage, they likely have other, more pressing, in game problems than managing threat/survivability, and probably shouldn’t be rolling a shaman tank. Maybe for the inexperienced shaman, a different weapon could be better, but with experience using Edward, the threat and survivability are unparalleled until p3. It takes good timing and more experience, but the results are there to be attained. Like other classes and high performance specs with nuance, you just gotta know what you’re doing and practice practice practice!

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3 months ago (1.13.2)
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Largid wrote:
4 months ago
Only real problem on most bosses is lack of "oh shi..." button while warriors have number of those.
@Largid
Thank you so much for the support.
Our ohh-sh%& button is more elaborate it's a health potion/Healthstone, swapping to defensive wep+shield and if a buff slot is available: activate JuJu Escape.
I am currently working on implementing non-pvp gear sets. If you have anymore question I am Livestreaming and answering questions whether it be about Shaman tanking, warlock tanking, priest tanking

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3 months ago (1.13.2)
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TheGreatShambino wrote:
3 months ago
In my opinion, if someone can’t time an instant cast self heal with their next tick of incoming damage, they likely have other, more pressing, in game problems than managing threat/survivability, and probably shouldn’t be rolling a shaman tank. Maybe for the inexperienced shaman, a different weapon could be better, but with experience using Edward, the threat and survivability are unparalleled until p3. It takes good timing and more experience, but the results are there to be attained. Like other classes and high performance specs with nuance, you just gotta know what you’re doing and practice practice practice!
With fights lasting mere minutes, Edward "should" not be triggering that often. Perhaps in a more casual guild?
Around P3 fights start lasting longer, so that'd be your best bet. But the amount of agi or spell crit to have Flurry active enough to get consistent proc of Edward is insane. Also, you'd need to be in a luxurious position in order to forgo defensive buffs and go for offensive buffs (JuJu Flurry, chicken, etc...) There's the option of just getting Bloodlust but that might be too hardcore for most.
Unless, I am missing something, a fast PURE threat dagger with WF will always out-threat Edward's heal/damage. But you can always equip Edward if the priest is kind enough to throw a PI your way but again this is a luxurious position.

Gensei wrote:
3 months ago
So I still have my elemental shaman, a troll. I've not played in a couple months because of RL stuff. But damn it if shaman tank has always interested me but I can't envision end-game tanking with my skinny ass troll.
Troll's are the ideal threat race for raids, don't be afraid of their fragile physique most top guild warrior tanks are trolls. If you don't plan on raid tanking you'll still be fine with Tauren.


Largid wrote:
4 months ago
I'm actually very surprised you don't mention Eskhandar's Right Claw as a weapon in gear list.
I suppose its proc has a very good synergy with RB, because extra TPS doesnt descale with Haste.
If I get this weapon, I'll try to measure its PPM and added TPS.

Esk is a luxury weapon, it assumes you don't need Timeworn (which is godly survival-wise). To get consistent procs of Esk you need a lot of agi/crit, which is gained later on in the game, at that point better weapons are available.

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3 months ago (1.13.2)
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Hi so about Eskhandar’s, word on the street (warrior community) is that you cannot parry when using this weapon, which effectively ranks it at the very bottom of the totem pole for tanking! :( 60% reduced attack speed would be brokenly nice, though.

Edit: HOWEVER... this item will easily keep you in the top echelon of threat generators on fights with a Single tank/bosses immune to taunt, such as Onyxia, essentially making you wipe prevention during the enrage phase of a boss. If the tank dies, just swap it out for your tanking weapon, and you may very well buy your raid the extra 15 or 30 seconds needed to down the boss. Which is priceless, and has a place in all progression guilds.

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3 months ago (1.13.2)
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TheGreatShambino wrote:
3 months ago
Hi so about Eskhandar’s, word on the street (warrior community) is that you cannot parry when using this weapon, which effectively ranks it at the very bottom of the totem pole for tanking! :( 60% reduced attack speed would be brokenly nice, though.
I've heard something similar regarding parry on fist weapons.

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3 months ago (1.13.2)
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Caperfin wrote:
3 months ago
TheGreatShambino wrote:
3 months ago
Hi so about Eskhandar’s, word on the street (warrior community) is that you cannot parry when using this weapon, which effectively ranks it at the very bottom of the totem pole for tanking! :( 60% reduced attack speed would be brokenly nice, though.
I've heard something similar regarding parry on fist weapons.
Interesting. According to this wowwiki patch notes history for parry, fist weapons were supposedly fixed to allow them to parry just like any other weapon back in patch 1.6:

https://vanilla-wow.fandom.com/wiki/Parry

If that patch history is accurate, then seems like eskhander's claw should be able to parry.

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3 months ago (1.13.2)
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Pippina wrote:
3 months ago
Interesting. According to this wowwiki patch notes history for parry, fist weapons were supposedly fixed to allow them to parry just like any other weapon back in patch 1.6:
that might be the case I'll ask around, I've never had a fist weapon, since I got Deathbringer first and most weapons generally outperform fist weapons.

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3 months ago (1.13.2)
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Caperfin wrote:
3 months ago
that might be the case I'll ask around, I've never had a fist weapon, since I got Deathbringer first and most weapons generally outperform fist weapons.
Eshkander's claw just looks so cool though. So is the claw of the black Drake. Shame they don't keep up.

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3 months ago (1.13.2)
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Pippina wrote:
3 months ago
Eshkander's claw just looks so cool though. So is the claw of the black Drake. Shame they don't keep up.
Esk is in a weird place.
Timeworn mace is so good for raids, you have to be in a very luxurious scenario to forgo it's defensive stats to opt for a threat weapon such as: Esk.
If you are in this prestige position you would also need a lot of agility to trigger flurry to trigger Esk and you'd be yet AGAIN sacrificing defensive stats for Esk's proc rate.

You eventually do reach a consistent proc rate of Esk around P3-P4'ish but at that point there are better threat weapons that also don't demand you to sacrifice defense.

I'd suggest Empyrean (esp if Troll) and Core Hound Tooth, which has stamina and still remains a threat weapon alongside a spell damage weapon like staff of dominance for Earth Shocks.

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3 months ago (1.13.2)
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Here's my take on current phase 2.5 Pre-raid gear setup.
https://classic.wowhead.com/gear-planne ... FOPZExOk4x

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3 months ago (1.13.2)
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Psojed wrote:
3 months ago
Here's my take on current phase 2.5 Pre-raid gear setup.
https://classic.wowhead.com/gear-planne ... FOPZExOk4x
Good take, I'd have a set similar like this in my bag if my group is showing bad signs, I'd maybe change the Demon Howl for Lordly and have Timeworn as wep.

P.S. how do you add enchants on wowhead gear planner?

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3 months ago (1.13.2)
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When selecting item for a given slot, there's an enchant selection below the items window:

   Caperfin
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2 months ago (1.13.2)
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Psojed wrote:
3 months ago
When selecting item for a given slot, there's an enchant selection below the items window
Thank you, I couldn't figure it out lol.

If you have any more shaman tank questions, feel free to let me know. There's also a whole shaman tank discord, if you're looking to get a second opinion, just tell me and I'll send you a link.

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2 months ago (1.13.2)
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Caperfin wrote:
1 year ago
Mana Spring Totem: Optimally, put by a shaman with: Restorative Totems. The only totem capable of giving us threat.
Hello there, every other source I've read states that mana spring totem does not give any threat, am I missing anything here?

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